Wednesday, March 2
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When Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms.—Jude 9.
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As Michael the archangel, Jesus “had a difference with the Devil” and “was disputing” with that wicked one. The issue involved “Moses’ body.” Recall that after Moses died, Jehovah buried the body in an unknown location. (Deut. 34:5, 6) Whatever evil purpose the Devil had in mind for Moses’ remains, Michael took a courageous stand.



One reference work notes that the Greek terms rendered “had a difference” and “disputing” are “also used in relation to a legal dispute” and may suggest “that Michael ‘challenged the Devil’s right’ to take Moses’ body.” Yet, the Chief Angel recognized that it was not his place to bring judgment. Rather, he referred the case to the Supreme Judge, Jehovah. Michael thus refrained from overstepping his authority. What a humble attitude!

w15 2/15 1:6​

 

It is scary that the devil had concerns about mosses body what could he possibly want with a dead body except use a facsimile as a puppet to mislead at some latter date?

 

Christian greetings, JehovahIsGod,

Like you, I can't think of a single reason why the devil would be disputing over bones that have long-since returned from the dust whence it came.

So let me ask you a question:

If Christians throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures are spoken of as composing the "the body of Christ," then who could we say composes "the body of Moses?"

The writer of Jude seems to be expanding on a passage from the Hebrew Scriptures to include Jewish Israel (remember, they will be "grafted back in" according to Romans 11:24 at some point in the future):

And he proceeded to show me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of Jehovah, and Satan standing at his right hand in order to resist him. Then [the angel of] Jehovah said to Satan: "Jehovah rebuke you, O Satan, yes, Jehovah rebuke you, he who is choosing Jerusalem! Is this one not a log snatched out of the fire?" — Zechariah 3:1-2, NWT

As a Jewish Christian, the writer of Jude would have had no trouble making the connection to the "body of Moses" being represented in Zechariah's writings through Joshua, since the high priest represented the people of Jewish Israel... at least until the day Israel demanded their own king. But I digress.

Where Jewish Israel was under the Law of Moses and thus its adherents became members of the body of Moses, Christians are under the law of Christ, and as a result become members of the body of Christ.

The similarities between Jude 1:3 and Zechariah 3:1-2 are too uncanny to dismiss, especially if we read Jude from a Jewish Christian perspective, with its unique heritage of faith, tribulation, and endurance hailing back to the days of early Biblical history.

I'll finish by saying that while we still don't know what the dispute was about, I hope that I've offered some thoughtful notions to help better understand who the dispute might have been about: Jewish Israel, not Moses's corpse.

(If I were to hazard a guess as to what Michael and the devil were disputing over, I'd say it had to do with the devil trying to argue that Jewish Israel deserved destruction for one thing or another (Job 1:6-10, et al) , not the redemption that will come to them (compare Zechariah 3:4, which may be a reference to the same event as Romans 11:24 discusses, when Jewish Israel's error passes and the veil Jehovah has placed over their eyes is finally lifted (Romans 11:8-11, 32)).

~ Earthbound ~

 

Christian greetings, JoshuaStone7,

Speaking only personally, it's been my experience over the years that few things cause as much divisiveness as prophetic matters, primarily because until one is on the other side of a fulfillment and has the unfettered benefit of 20/20 hindsight, we are hindered by a number of influences— most of which we don't really give much thought to because it's so integrated into our perspective. Cultural, religious affiliation, level and capacity of one's understanding, extent of research (Biblical and extra-Biblical), and on the list goes.

And I confess to being someone formerly who devoted a few decades to prophetic matters, expending the effort to strain my eyes to make out what I could through a mirror darkly, as the apostle Paul described it. And who doesn't want to know what's going to happen? We check out the weather report and adjust our plans accordingly. We stay apprised of world events to get a sense of where we're standing in the stream of time. We plan ahead for trips and journeys. We plan building projects, budgets, and other matters to ensure that we will have what we need.

Likewise, we appreciate those who feel a calling to be examiners of prophecy, because they can often sound the alarm about a matter that we ourselves haven't noticed.

Paul, in his letter to the Ephesian Christians, described those gifts we have in men:

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers... — Ephesians 4:11

Each has their respective responsibility, but Paul goes on to say that these gifts in men also have an obligation. That obligation is to see to the edification of the holy ones (or saints, as some Bible translations read).

Paul elsewhere writes, in his first letter to the brothers at Corinth, that one can have the gift of prophecy, and understand all of the mysteries... yet doesn't have Christlike love, then it all amounts to nothing. And here, too, I have seen in my years on the internet what can happen when one's prophetic view develops into a doctrinal view and the person with the gift of prophecy and understood a great many things when it came to the mysteries slowly develops a harsh tone with others, and intolerant of divergent views. One such example would be the Watchtower organization, which has turned many prophetic views into doctrinal views— but I've seen the same happen with individuals, too. Somewhere along the way, the responsibility of station begins to take front seat to the obligation to the brothers and sisters, and the Christlike love, in turn, becomes more difficult to make out.

So, personally, I don't invest the time I used to in prophetic understanding and application, for better or worse.

In the case of this day's choice of daily scripture, I was merely trying to offer a plausible alternative to the usual notion people have that the writer of Jude was talking about Michael and the devil disagreeing about a corpse, and offer that alternative with a few scriptures that might shed additional light on the subject that I've looked at in personal Bible study—beginning with the simple premise that if there is a group of people that scripturally is referred to as the "body of Christ," then it stands to reason that there is/was a group of people before that could be referred to as the "body of Moses," especially since the writer of Jude was himself a Jewish Christian.

Of Zerubbabel:

Since I'm writing this post from work, I don't have access to my notes or reference materials. However, briefly, Haggai 2:23 speaks of Zerubbabel as Jehovah's "servant" and as having a "signet ring," which, historically, refers to a king's seal that would be used to seal a letter to its intended, to ensure that no manipulation of the letter's contents could be done before the message reached the intended recipient(s). In Revelation, we are witness to a conversation where the question arises about who has the authority to open the scrolls that were sealed (by a signet ring). (See Jeremiah 22:24, where Jehovah speaks of the signet ring as being on His hand, which likely means that the scrolls that are sealed in Revelation were sealed with Jehovah's signet ring, so to speak, until the one who was authorized to open the scrolls and reveal the messages therein arrived on the scene.

Anyhow, I can see I'm making this into a TL;DR post (Too Long; Didn't Read).

In both Haggai and Zechariah, there are indications that Zerubbabel is prophetically a future king. In Zechariah, that king is referred to as "My servant the branch." (Zechariah 3:8; See also, Zechariah 6:13)

I need to wrap this up, but it IS interesting to note that at Zechariah 6:11 a crown is being placed on the high priest Joshua's head, where one would think it would have been shown as being placed on Zerubbabel's since he was the king at that time. However, Verse 13 reveals that this is a symbolic gesture of when a future high priest will be given a crown, and act as both king and high priest, and that there will be harmony or peace between those two stations (today, by way of example, secular America touts its whole "separation of church and state" spiel).

The only other account where we see one who is both king and high priest is in reference to Melchizedek at Hebrews 7:1, with the writer of Hebrews going on to say that Christ has become our king and high priest (Hebrews 7:17) after the order or likeness of Melchizedek.

But I'm writing this swiftly, so as to respect the fact that I am on an employer's clock, and I apologize in advance for any confusion or consternation resulting from my quick response to part of your post. And I'm not even sure that I answered anything you asked, lol. Sorry about that, too.

~ Earthbound ~

 

I agree with Josh but unfortunately disagree with you.... You weren't making this into a TL;DR.... On the contrary ! I can't wait for more ! Just so you know about it, the deciphering of prophecies bores me stiff, which means that I won't necessarily follow your reasoning on intellectual grounds till its logical conclusions but the fruit of your thoughts sounds way promising anyway...

PS: Please, don't think that I expect from you the "Holy Grail" in relation to the deciphering of prophecies. I don't expect ground-breaking epiphanies from anyone (I'm not against nice surprises though....) but just conclusions that are reliable, a minimum rational, documented and that somewhat hold water... which is already the case.

You're not being judged here or having a spiritual "job interview". Please, tell us everything (after many years of "training on the job", we're used to sorting the wheat from the chaff on many grounds.... it doesn't take long. We've learned quite fast to know whom we're dealing with...) !

 

Christian greetings, JoshuaStone7,

I wanted to ask you: Have you ever factored in that where Jewish Israel is concerned, it is a provisional judgment from Jehovah, and for that reason their fate isn't the same fate as those rejecting Jehovah's sovereignty and the one whom He sent forth?

I'll try to be brief.

Compare Romans 11:15 with Revelation 20:5 and you have your missing piece.

Context: Jewish Israel is currently blinded, according to Romans 11:8, and remain so to this day, right? Until the fullness of the nations have come in, they will remain so. Then, the end. Judgment times are then upon the world at-large and this system of things. But then for Jehovah to open Jewish Israel's eyes as Christ's return is upon us, only to destroy them in those few moments at the end as some sort of too-bad-so-sad-bye-now?

Sounds a little harsh for the God I've come to know.

Romans 11:15 is where I would send you.

For, if by their putting away, the rest of men have been made friends with God, what will their coming back again be, but life from the dead? — Romans 11:15, BBE

Now, flip over to Revelation 20:5:

The rest of the dead did not come to life again till the thousand years were ended. This is the first coming back from the dead. — Revelation 20:5, BBE

What do you make of them?

~ Earthbound ~

 

Christian greetings, JoshuaStone7,

Thank you for the detailed response to my query, as it helps me better understand the general consensus of the board on this subject.

~ Earthbound ~

 

Dear Earthbound,

Nope, there's no general consensus here on this subject. No biggie !

You'll find some information about how this topic has been broached in the thread whose link is here.

 

Hi Earthbound,

It reminds me a sentence I quoted in the Quotes thread.

It's only at dusk that Minerva's owl takes flight.

Minerva/Athena was the goddess of intelligence, her emblematic bird was the owl. The owl is a nocturnal bird (and the symbol of wisdom because it sees through darkness), dusk is the end of the day, the end of all things at a given moment. This aphorism means that we never really grasp the ins and the outs of a situation before the end of it. It's only when the events come to an end that we begin to understand their meaning. Even though some people may think that they have a good understanding of an historical event, for example, said event will only be thoroughly understood 50 or 100 years later.

 

There is nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures that calls Michael the Archangel. It just so happens that Michael was not the Archangel until he had fulfilled his obligation to die as a ransom for mankind. It is only in the Christian Greek Scriptures written after his sacrifice that he is called Michael the Archangel. If he was the angel that was head of all the angels, that would have included Satan. But at that time he was not the head angel. Daniel 10:13 in a Greek interlinear you will see that Michael is called NOT the Archangel but "one of the chiefs, the first ones." If Michael was the Archangel he would not be called "one of the chiefs, the first ones" he would be called the chief angel. He was not at the time Daniel was written, there were other chief angels equal to him in rank. But I know this does not fit in the scheme of things in your own minds so you will no doubt find an unscriptural way to set this understanding aside because it is very uncomfortable to you and you will make that verse say whatever you want. I have seen it all before too many times.

Frank