What is Truth?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Joshuastone7, Nov 22, 2020.

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    “What is truth?” Jhn 18:38

    If you were to ask a scientist why the sky was blue, what might he tell you? He might tell you that our atmosphere refracts the blue part of the spectrum from the light of the sun into our eyes. Now, did he just tell you the truth of the matter or the fact of it?

    I had misunderstood the differences between these two seemingly synonyms for a very long time. You see while the scientist may have given you the facts of the matter, these don't necessarily contain the truth of it. Truth is much more esoteric.

    You see, the truth of why the sky is blue could be different for different people. One might argue Jehovah made the sky blue to be more pleasing against the backdrop of the land. Or perhaps another might argue that the blue I see may not necessarily correspond to the blue you experience. The truth, you see, has a very different quantification than that of fact.

    There are many things I regret in my past, while one of which relates to this subject. Indoctrinated into the totalitarian beliefs structure of the JW's, I had always understood that in order to come to salvation one needed the facts of scripture in order to survive. Any current or former JW understands the Watchtower's teaching on the following scripture as pertaining to the facts of the Bible.

    "always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth." 2Ti 3:7

    How wrong that understanding is, and how much damage that teaching has rot onto so many souls... Even I on this forum in past years would argue facts of Scripture, metaphorically beating others over the head with the Bible. How very wrong I was... We are not saved by facts of Scripture, we are saved by the witness of truth! "Everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice." Jhn 18:37b

    Is it understanding the facts pertaining to the nature of Christ that saves mankind, or is it one's faith in him that brings salvation?

    "So faith follows the thing heard. In turn, what is heard is through the word about Christ." Rom 10:17

    What is the truth? The truth is our Lord Christ Jesus is the way, is the life!

    "Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Jhn 14:6

    So many arguments, so many wars, so many deaths over facts... While all along it is by truth we are set free.

    "If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth,t and the truth will set you free.” Jhn 8:31,32

    "However, when that one comes, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own initiative, but what he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things to come." Jhn 16:13

    "There will be with us undeserved kindness, mercy, and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, with truth and love." 2Jh 1:3

    -------------------

    Let us forever move forward in sharing our faith with each other along with differences of understanding in peace. For we are all under our one Lord who gave his life through his love of us. Let us not quarrel or fight, let us not fear nor condemn. Let us have faith first in our Lord, before all other things. "Have no fear, only exercise faith.” Jhn 5:36

    For it is by our faith we either live or we die! "Who can conquer the world? Is it not the one who has faith that Jesus is the Son of God?" 1Jhn 5:5

    All love...

    AJ
     
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    RR144 New Member

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    Interestingly the churches in Christendom hinge their salvation on one doctrine, and that is that Jesus is God. If you don't believe in the Trinity there is no salvation.

    Of course the Society teaches that "there is no salvation outside of Jehovah's organization". I remember a few years after we left, we were living about 50 miles from our own congregation, no one knew us where we lived. My then wife ran into some Witnesses one Saturday morning. They eventually came over and we had a nice conversations. To make a long story short, they came over 5 times, one of them was an elder. In the end he read a paragraph from the Reasoning book about how Witnesses are not there to win arguments and stated this was their last visit, because they were sure they had the Truth and I was sure I had the Truth (his words now mine) and that the continue our discussions were fruitless. At that time I was holding my daughter who wasn't even a year old, and I asked him "what now? What happens now?" He said "it doesn't matter how much Truth you have, you could have 99% of the Truth, but if you don't believe that God has a visible on earth, you, your wife and your daughter will perish." I cracked a smile and shook my head and walked them outside, and told him, "see you in the Kingdom."

    You know a good majority of the Truth I learned as a JW in 1982 is no longer taught as truth today. Some of those Truths changed while I was still there. The question then asked is "How does Truth lead to everlasting life when that Truth constantly changes?"I'm remind of what Pastor Russell wrote in 1881:

    And so we see with the Society's leadership today, they go down a dark lit corridor turning off one light and they move onto the next, never seeing clearing, only seeing a few feet around them. Had they turned on the light as they walked leaving them on, the corridor would be completely lit. But in the end, as you stated, Jesus is the Way and the Truth. Our salvation is not hinged on my church association, Jesus stated where two or 3 are gathered in his name is where He would be and I choose to be where Jesus is.

    RR
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Greetings RR and thank you for your commentary...

    What the Watchtower calls truth, they actually mean fact. (As we all know) It's really helped me to separate those two words and to recognize the Scripture's clarification of differences. It is my contention that there is only one truth, and that is faith in the sacrifice of Christ Jesus. As far as the facts, they just simply aren't salvational...

    If it were facts that save JW's, they'd be in trouble, along with all of us. No one has the complete facts of what the Bible means. Even the Watchtower themselves have changed their facts about scripture many times. (As you mentioned) I feel a heavy load lifted understanding the difference between those two concepts...

    In my opinion, the fact is Jesus is the truth, and the fact that Jesus was created is not salvational. Obviously, this is still only my opinion for what I ultimately really have is the truth; because now that I understand that, I can explore the facts with an unhindered heart.

    All love...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Truth - truths = facts = proof. Proof never changes, it remains the same over time.

    There are six different words in Hebrew and Aramaic that are translated into English as truth, or a variable such as faithful, firm, truth, stability, reliability. It depends on the circumstances of what is being spoken about. A Sense of “something that is true” is first recorded mid-14c. Meaning “accuracy, correctness” is from 1560s. English and most other IE languages do not have a primary verb for "speak the truth," as a contrast to lie.

    “Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't.” - Mark Twain
    “Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.” - Mark Twain

    I will give a few examples of one word: ‘emeth pronounced eh'-meth. This word is used 128 times in 23 books of the Hebrew and Aramaic in the KJV. These are according to Strong’s: faith, faithful, faithfully, faithfulness, lasting, nor, right, true, truly, truth; truth that you may use correctly, truthful.

    Examples: Gen 21:26, 24:27, 24:48, 24:49, 32:10, 42:16, 47:29. (This is just one example for ‘emeth”. )
    It is used 37 times in Psalms. One example. “Lead me in Your truth and teach me, For You are the God of my salvation; For You I wait all the day.” ( Ps 25:5 KJV ) This scripture taken from psalms is talking about the god/God/GOD/ of the writer; who was Jehovah God. Any other god of that time was a fake god. We don’t know who wrote this psalm. The writer is unknown, but not a believer in a triune god. This writer was speaking of a god of truth, who identified himself to all the faithful worshipers of those time periods.

    No religious organization can offer salvation. Salvation belongs to Jehovah God through Christ Jesus.
    ( Lu 2:21 - 32 NKJV )

     
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    thinking

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    That quote was made in the late 1880s...he changed that view by the time of his death...at times stating he had misunderstood certain things and had a better understanding as time had gone on...Russell who I admire greatly .readjusted his thoughts as time went on.....that quote is moot...personally I think you have taken a old quote out of context...to back your own beliefs,,,and that’s not truth either .
    You are completely correct as to our salvation not being hitched to any church association
     
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    thinking

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    So we all become like the Pope and unite with anyone who says they have faith in Jesus...light cannot exist with darkness....you cannot sit at the table of demons as well as Gods....
    There are certain doctrines that any one who has any regard for Jesus would not abide with...
    Serving Jehovah and Jesus is not lovey dovey stuff....Jesus DID CONDEM those who claimed to be righteous ...as did Paul...
    One does not need facts or even understanding of prophecies or chronology to be saved....and just claiming faith in Jesus is not enough either,,
     
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    RR144 New Member

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    Care to elaborate?

    RR
     
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    thinking

    thinking Member

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    Do you have The book ..What Pastor Russell said.
    It’s a massive book where many of the questions directed to him are written with his response.
    In there he openly admits he himself has had to readjust thoughts as time has gone on,,,
    Page 94..he is discussing a question about his 1914 chronology...page 94
    Russell. ....Perhaps I was expecting more to occur than I should have.

    1) In another part he states ..perhaps we have tried to rush Jehovah’s time table to fit ours..
    2) At another part he admits he once thought such things but now understand he has a better understanding of the subject
    You will have to get the book as I am paraphrasing the points 1 and 2...
    The point is Russel did change his thoughts...as he understood things and as time went on...he was a very humble man...and not dogmatic over his belief..

    you can get the book from Chicago Bible students ...it sounds like you are well aware of them..as I am.
    I have noted even in his Bible commentary..he at times says he thought that at a period of time but now he thinks this ( whatever the subject was )
     
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    RR144 New Member

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    I'm familiar with it, as I have ALL of Russell's writings.

    Let me ask did Russell change the chronology? Did he abandon the 1914 date? No he did not. He simply expected all the events to transpire by 1914. That did not abolish the date, nor did it do away with what he expected. Now while today the Society still clings to the 1914 date, it no longer resembles what Russell believed. They may use the same terminology (e.g. gentile times, parousia, etc.) but they are apples and oranges.

    So while Russell may have made some minor changes, he didn't do a 180 degree turn or flip flop back and forth like the Society has done today.

    RR
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    “If you tell the truth, you won’t have to remember anything!” - Mark Twain

    “Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn’t.” - Mark Twain

    “Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.” - Mark Twain

    “The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear.” - Herbert Agar

     
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    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Sometimes we don't have to say anything :)

    Good quotes!
     

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