2015 Saturday, February 28

Discussion in 'Daily Text' started by Jinnvisible, Feb 28, 2015.

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    Jinnvisible

    Jinnvisible Experienced Member

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    Saturday, February 28




    I saw four angels
    .
    . . holding tight the four winds of the
    earth.

    —Rev. 7:1.



    When the angels unleash the winds of destruction, what will happen then?
    Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, will meet her deserved end.
    “Peoples and crowds and nations and tonguesâ€￾
    will be unable to give her effective support.

    Already we see indications that her demise is near. (Rev. 16:12; 17:15-18; 18:7, 8, 21)
    In fact, a lack of support is now reflected in the news media, where religion and religious
    leaders are increasingly coming under attack.

    Even so, the leaders of Babylon the Great feel that they are in no real danger.
    How wrong they are! Following the proclamation of “Peace and security!â€￾ political elements
    of Satan’s system will suddenly turn on false religion and wipe it out.
    (1 Thess. 5:3)


    Never
    again will Babylon the Great be seen!

    Surely it is worth waiting patiently for such momentous events.


    —Rev. 18:8, 10.


    [SUP]w13 11/15 2:13, 14[/SUP]
     
  2. Hi All:

    Who are these angels that are holding back these winds? Any suggestions?

    frank
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    The four angels holding back the four winds are the four angels at Rev 14.

    Jesus/Another angel/Second angel/Third angel = 4
     
  4. Hi Joshua:

    That's an interesting response but I am not sure it is correct. Jesus and the other three anonymous angels mentioned in that scripture are obviously angels that are in or from heaven. The four angels of Revelation 7 are identified clearly as being "on the earth". So, for that reason, but not that reason alone I think the four angels are more probably the same as those mentioned in Revelation 9...

    The sixth angel+ blew his trumpet.+ And I heard one voice from the horns of the golden altar+ that is before God 14 say to the sixth angel who had the trumpet: “Untie the four angels who are bound at the great river Eu·phra′tes.â€￾+ 15 And the four angels who have been prepared for the hour and day and month and year were untied to kill a third of the people. Revelation 9

    What are the angels who are mentioned in Revelation 9 bound by? Ropes? Chains? Or are they bound by a command? Which command you ask? Well, how about this one...

    And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrise,* having a seal of the living God; and he called with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed+ the slaves of our God in their foreheads.â€￾+ Revelation 7

    So, the four angels of Revelation 7 seem to be the same angels (messengers) as the angels who are said to be bound (by a proclamation from the throne of God through a heavenly angel) not to harm the earth or the sea or the trees until a certain time.

    It is also interesting to note that the four angels of Revelation 7 only have control of "the four winds of the earth". What do you suppose is the significance of that?

    Before we answer that, can we remember an example of a time when angels or "messengers" were permitted to bring suffering and destruction upon mankind by specifically being permitted by God? My memory is drawn to the example of Job and his children in the very same book of Job.

    Who were the angels that were tasked or permitted to bring destruction and death to mankind in this instance? Was it Jesus and three other anonymous angels? No, you will remember that it was specifically Satan and his demon angels who were given the OK to strike Job and his kin. But the permission was granted with a limitation or a "binding" agreement. They were not to touch Job to his very soul. Meaning clearly they could not kill him.

    Well, this permission that was given to the "angels" at Revelation 7 also has a binding limitation. Although they have been given permission to harm mankind even unto death, they are limited in the fact that they can only carry out this destruction and death "after the sons of God are sealed".

    Therefore, I think that the angels that are bound at the river Euphrates are demonic angels of the Devil himself who are bound here to the earth as shown in Revelation 12 in these words...

    And war broke out in heaven: Mi′cha·el*+ and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail,* nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon+ was hurled, the original serpent,+ the one called Devil+ and Satan,+ who is misleading the entire inhabited earth;+ he was hurled down to the earth,+ and his angels were hurled down with him. Revelation 12

    So, Satan and his angels (messengers) are bound to the location of the earth and they can no longer enter back into the heavens where they were formally permitted to go. So, any havack that they are permitted to reek will be limited to "the earth and the sea and the trees". Also, they can only do to mankind what is permitted for them to do by the authorities in the heavens. Why do I say this?

    Just after Satan and his demon angels (messengers) are cast down to the earth we hear...

    I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation+ and the power and the Kingdom of our God+ and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!+ 11 And they conquered him+ because of the blood of the Lamb+ and because of the word of their witnessing,+ and they did not love their souls*+ even in the face of death. 12 On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea,+ because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.â€￾+

    So, let's look at the scripture again at Revelation 7.

    7 After this I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of the earth, so that no wind could blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. [ until after they were permitted by Jesus, who is now in complete power] 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrise,* having a seal of the living God; [to seal the remaining ones who had not been sealed yet] and he called with a loud voice to the four angels [bound by the river Euphrates] to whom it was granted [with permission from Jesus or one of the 144,000] to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed+ the slaves of our God in their foreheads.â€￾+ Revelation 7

    These demon angels have been cast down to the earth and they are "bound" here by the fact that they have lost their angelic bodies and are now "possessing" the men and perhaps women who find themselves in real positions of power. It will be from this vantage point on "the earth" that they will wage their attack on mankind. So, it will be limited to those that they are given permission to attack. Sounds very similar to the situation recorded in the book of Job, only now they cannot enter back into the heavens any more. And...their days are numbered because it was also mentioned in scripture that Satan knows "that he has a short period of time".

    frank
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    You attempt to connect Rev 7:1 "After this I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth" with Rev 12:9 "So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth,"

    There is no connection here. There is nothing to say that these angels in 7 are even on the physical earth. The corners of the earth could be up above it, because we know the winds are metaphoric anyway.

    These four winds are the same as the winds the beasts come from in Dan 7, and so the winds held back are wars between nations in the time of the end. It's not a big stretch to imagine that Satan and his demons would have war at anytime, but that in fact these are keeping that from happening at that moment.

    I think your idea that Jehovah is keeping four angels back from starting wars is irrelevant, after all it's Jehovah that takes away peace in the world, and he just as well can commission four perfect angels to keep the earth from coming to war.

    I was going to add to my last post the fact that the four angels at the Euphrates river are in fact the same angels that hold back the four winds and the four at Rev 14. You will also note that the four angels again are represented in the second half of 14:14-18, and in this description it tells you their roles at Armageddon.

    "Then I saw, and look! a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was someone like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.

    Another angel emerged from the temple sanctuary, calling with a loud voice to the one seated on the cloud: “Put your sickle in and reap, because the hour has come to reap, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.â€￾ And the one seated on the cloud thrust his sickle into the earth, and the earth was reaped.


    And still another angel emerged from the temple sanctuary that is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle.

    And still another angel emerged from the altar, and he had authority over the fire. And he called out with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, saying: “Put your sharp sickle in and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for its grapes have become ripe.â€￾

    So the four angels are mentioned twice in Rev 14, and you will notice these are the same four horsemen as well. It is these horsemen that take peace from the earth, so in fact they are also the ones that keep peace on the earth, (hold back four winds).

    I don't see the word "only". There is nothing to say that they have no other work other then holding back the four winds.

    It's really the chronology that had brought me to the conclusion I have presented. For the 6th trumpet comes just before the 7th when Gods people are sealed.

    The four angels holding back the four winds at Rev 7, the four horsemen of Rev 6, the four angels at Rev 14 and the four angels at the end of Rev 14, and as well the horses and chariots at Zech 6 are all the one and the same and describe each other.
     
  6. Hi Joshua:

    Have you ever thought for one minute that your chronology is simply a personal description and not correct? Did the Holy Spirit tell you about this chronology itself or is this simply by your own personal work in the Word of God?

    I don't claim to be inspired by Holy Spirit, at least not from the standpoint of adoption as a Son of God and member of the Bride of Christ. I just write what I see in the scriptures and what I think makes good sense. Still think my viewpoint is more likely than yours that all these scriptures are talking about the same four angels.

    Frank
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    How is the 6th trumpet coming before the 7th my own personal interpretation?
     
  8. Hi Joshua:

    You have worn me down with your silliness. I give, uncle.

    frank
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I know what your asking, but I've addressed that question many times before, HERE is the last time if you missed it.

    I simply had a talent of finding structure in chaos in other works of mine over the years. Our secular abilities can sometimes translate into helpful work in the lord. Not unlike someone who speaks a foreign language who might teach the truth to others.

    Combined with my enjoyment of the deeper things in scripture and a helping hand from finding Roberts work, I simply continued from the point Robert skewed in chronology, and that point specifically was Dan 11:30 and Dan 12:11.

    Ive also already told my experience of receiving Jehovah's spirit, but in no way have I been given knowledge in any special way other then that help that comes from his spirit.

    Everything is already there in the Bible, no one needs to have any interpretation, that book is its own interpretation. You see, the values I hold dear as it pertains to prophecy are this, to never have my own understanding, to never prove my own theory, to learn to enjoy when your wrong, to be willing to go all the way back to the beggining if that's what it takes, to simply only understand what Jehovah intended to be his arrangement of events, because you see, I've always believed if you knew what event came before or after another you could then determine what each event actually is, and it works. That's how my work began, only desiring to put events in the correct order, and once that is accomplished the characters and events present themselves without the need for any personal interpretation.

    In response to your question, no I have have been given nothing other then spirit, everything I understand is nothing more then what everyone else has access too within that book...
     

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