Thank you for the comment brother, you brighten up our DB, but nothing I understand is of my own initiative, this is all Jehovah's and we are merely servants.
Oh yes, the idea that the constant feature is already removed and the disgusting thing already placed... I'm familiar with the idea because if one hasn't already thought of that you could never know the truth. Dan 12:11 is a time period between the constant feature and the disgusting thing being placed. These two events must be separated by this time table. The first fulfillment must be a gauge in order to understand the second in the time of the end, and that was 66-70CE. We must also keep in mind that if one thinks that infiltration of false ideas and people into the temple is the call to flee then Jesus would not have called the temple the house of his father and continued to enter it. The temple in Jerusalem by Jesus day was full of Hypocrisy, false gods and idols, and so on. Jesus and his brothers continued in the city up until they were to flee in 70CE. Never anywhere in scripture was this call to flee a metaphor. It was and continues to be meant to flee for ones physical safety. The first model is the example for the end. Besides brother, the chronology shows that the constant feature being removed is the WTS itself going down. It certainly was not the NGO scandal. Rome was the disgusting thing in 70CE, not the faithless Jewish leaders. The disgusting thing is a nation, the 8th king in fact. The disgusting thing stands in a holy place 1290 days after the constant feature is removed, 30 days after Jesus is enthroned and only 45 days before the first day of the new world. As well this occurs 70 days after Babylon goes down. With all do respect brother Frank, I do appreciate your presents here but, Rome has not encircled the city for 42 months, Jesus has not been enthroned, the two witnesses have not been killed, Babylon has not fallen, and all of these things occur before the disgusting thing is placed... You can also do me a favor. When there is no fire sign, and no war, and everything is calm as it is now, and on a Rosh Hashanah you see news reports about someone in the Governing Body who is doing illegal things, it still wont be the time to flee, but know there is a place to come for answers here...
" Hi Joshua: To quote you, "Besides brother, the chronology shows that the constant feature being removed is the WTS itself going down. It certainly was not the NGO scandal. Rome was the disgusting thing in 70CE, not the faithless Jewish leaders. The disgusting thing is a nation, the 8th king in fact." I can understand why you would not think that the NGO scandal was the fulfillment of Matthew 24:16 " over the last 6 weeks and 35 comments on the thread "The United Nations is NOT the 8th king...again' you argued that the U.N. would be the 8th king. Why does the United Nations being the 8th King not qualify them as the disgusting thing standing where it ought not You are correct, the Jewish system of things was full of unfaithfulness when the disgusting thing stood in "a" holy place in 70CE. Likewise the Watchtower is in a similar situation today but just as in the first century the practicers of the respective faiths are wanting. They know that something is amiss, but they are too afraid out of fear to say or do anything. Paralysed, just as the Jews were in the first century when the religious practice acceted by Jehovah God changed to Christianity
Keep in mind I have also argued that the 8th king has not risen from the abyss yet. I've said that the first beast in Rev 13 is the UN as it currently is and that the death stroke was to the 6th king and that brought about the 7th in the form of the second beast with two horns. I believe chronology shows that the death stroke and the coming out of the abyss in Rev 17 are not the same event. Once Anglo-America goes down in the future then the UN will rise from the abyss as the 8th king. Therefore we are still under the 7th kings influence. The 8th king will be the disgusting thing standing in a holy place and that will occur 405 days after Anglo-America goes down. You missed my point. If I'm not wrong you say the disgusting thing is the negative influence currently in the governing body, right? But that was the case when Jesus lived his life, but yet the disgusting didn't stand in a holy place until 70CE, even though that influence had been there for many years. Therefore the influence and sin in the congregation cannot be the disgusting thing according to the example of the first century. As well, the disgusting thing in the first century stood there in one moment in time and killed everyone in sight, why would it's second fulfillment not be the same? The disgusting thing was a government, it encircled the city for 42 months after the constant feature had been removed, and then entered the temple. Brother, that has not happen today, I don't see dead bodies laying around...
Hi Joshua: No, that's not what I think. I do not think that the negative influence of the current governing body is the disgusting thing that causes desolation (what they are and have been is the Jezebel influence). Read Revelation 2: 20-23 for more info on the Jezebel influence. When the Watchtower, through whatever process they used gave the go ahead for the "brothers" to align themselves with the DPI of the United Nations as an NGO they promised to align themselves and herald to the public at no cost to the United Nations all the great virtues of the United Nations as an organization and to work in harmony with their Charter. They did just that and had you and I passing out copies of the free publicity to the public in our ministry using primarily the Awake magazine (you have to remember the articles, they were very slyly written and very two tongued)(my wife and I were regular pioneers during the 90's). This for all intent and purpose joined these two Corporations together in a common union ( "she teaches and misleads my slaves to commit sexual immorality*+ and to eat things sacrificed to idols. " Rev 2:20) whether you or anyone else has the gumption to admit it. Since the "anointed" brothers of Christ left on earth at any one time are in essence "The Temple" on the earth, they qualify or qualified at the time to fulfill being "a" holy place. Now many have not seen this occur, and others have seen it but do not as yet perceive it's significance, but they will. In the near future there will be those at the very highest eschelons of the Society that will finally perceive it's significance and they will reveal the true matter and exactly how it went down and there will be nowhere for the Watchtower to hide at that time. They will be totally naked and exposed. Even you Josh will perceive it's significance then. I hope that you do so even before that fateful day. When you do, do not hesitate, but head for the symbollic hills that Jehovah will raise up at that time. Follow the voice of the true shepherd as it will come from JW's and ex JW's who represent, the remnant of the Bride of Christ on earth. You will recognize their voice and their manner of teaching but you probably won't recognize many of them as individuals because they probably are not who you think they will be. They will be revealed very soon. frank
not to change the subject of prophecy on this thread , but now that the convention recordings are online and I can now "attend" to them . that JW.org now has a youtube channel where the conventions are now on video ( by video I mean recording as there are no pictures voice over only) and yes they have partnered with youtube for "advertisement" which allows them to receive funding thru commercial advertising which is not "for the kingdom" but worldly commercial enterprises . Yep I was flabbergasted . but I turned the add off so quickly that now I realize I didn't get the full content of the add , I figure next time I will listen to the full add to see what they are allowing .my habit is to immediately skip commercials so the habit just kicked in when I realized maybe I should have stopped to see JW.org was allowing to be advertised on their youtube page of conventions. well i went back to the start and its Bruce Lee doing his Martial Arts and a Mazda car commercial ... martial arts ???? on JW.org ??? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPvDBqs5CGSKj85Tb-oA1BQ ok back to listening to the convention talks , since I don't attend the hall I am missing them a bit , especially the good ones .
The conventions on Youtube ! Now that's funny ! For years, people were forbidden to post such things online, mainly so that apostates may not have access to the talks but also in order for the b/s to make the effort of attending the meetings for real instead of just listening to them through the phone or the internet. It's amazing how the Society has changed their policy in that regard. Thanks for sharing, sister POP !
What an amount of patience and love Jehovah must have had so that his purpose may take shape in the course of all those past millenia and what an amount of time his faithful servants must have spent peering deeply at His Word to understand it !!!! Hopefully, soon, all of this will take place for real and for ever ! : "For the earth will be filled with the knowing of the glory of Jehovah as the waters themselves cover over [the] sea." - Hab. 2:14
Amen brother... What amazes me every day my friend is his foresight. Think about what it would have taken to set up prophetic holidays on earth through humans. To make sure they are set on certain days and remembered in certain ways, because the days between the holidays very over time. Now record that and keep it translated for thousands of years, out living the ability of the substance it is written on. Now don't forget one would have needed to look thousands of years into the future and see the end events in order to even know the days between in order to record them long before they occur. I can't overstate how often I sit here hoping I never impose my own understanding... To wish his will, his understanding, his will... Can any of us in this state serve him? I know where I'm from, and how undeserving I am. I am reminded quite often of Math 19:30; “But many who are first will be last and the last first." If ever there were a last, some of us are. Oh brother the words of Paul at 1Cor 1:27,28!!! "but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame; and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, so that no one might boast in the sight of God." Of what patience Jehovah has with us the living in this time! And I'm not talking about the patience he's had for the brothers in the hall or in the GB, but the last of us who are least. Some of us are undeserving, yet he chooses us to accomplish his will, I don't understand it, and perhaps much of this is because your much better in understanding Jehovah's love. I wish I knew it like you do. My desire to know him and my desire to serve him in the way he would like me to is beyond my ability to understand. I can only wait on him and take comfort in my friend with more knowledge of Jehovah's love then me... I have to say, this is a surprising comment from you, because I know you have said you thought the end would be beyond our lifespan. Does the end yearn more in your heart then you lead on? You quoted a beautiful scripture here brother. It reminds me of Dan 11,12; But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively. And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many." & “those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever. “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.†It is the work of the last my friend to bring this true to the many. Jehovah willing we will share in this privilege... I pray for your patience my friend, Jehovah's will for our DB, and his time frame to uncover all things. You know my affection for you my dear brother in Christ...
I just don't see the world situation to be as ripe as the GB and others claim. It's taking shape slowly but there are some things that still don't add up, in my opinion. If things have to take several decades more to ripe further, then be it !
I thought at first that it was an official channel but after making some research, I noticed that it isn't.
Yes, agreed. However, Jehovah promised to 'speed it up' during that final season. I believe it is being sped up now, for these facts: 1. the US dollar denominated world is near the cliff 2. the western world's younger generations have turned against Christ and God, even as a concept 3. food is being genetically altered 4. water is becoming polluted 5. disease has been given a petri dish among 7 billion people Decades? Perhaps... but I doubt it Financial collapse of the west is coming, regardless of Bible prophecy, or if this is the death-stroke. And it will radically transform society.
2Th 2:6; "And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time." Unless I'm mistaken I believe this is the whole point, that everything seems normal up until the MOL is revealed. I don't believe you would be able to see anything other then the operation of error according to 2Th. So the point being I believe 2Th is telling us everything will look normal except the operation of error up until the MOL is revealed in "his own due time".
I think that this speeding up is in relation with : "Before she began to come into labor pains she gave birth. Before birth pangs could come to her, she even gave deliverance to a male child. Who has heard of a thing like this? Who has seen things like these? Will a land be brought forth with labor pains in one day? Or will a nation be born at one time? For Zion has come into labor pains as well as given birth to her sons." - Is.66:7-8 The context of Is. 60:22: "The little one himself will become a thousand, and the small one a mighty nation. I myself, Jehovah, shall speed it up in its own time.â€" incites us to think that this speeding up is in relation with the birth of the real Israel of God when Jehovah decides so. The facts that you mention are relevant but as I said, even if things are taking place, like chess pieces somehow, things aren't really out of control YET and aren't as dreadful as the Bible depicts them. The amount of sufferings and destructions caused during WWI and WWII left the world on its knees and YET, that wasn't the end. Nowadays, people are beginning to wet their pants because of risks of war in Ukrain or in the Middle-East or of pandemic like Ebola's but we are nothing near like the millions of deads caused by the 1918 flu pandemic or the millions of deads caused by WWII alone (bloody war between Japan and China included). Even if such a bloody war and such a pandemic took place nowadays with as many victims as there were 80 years ago, would it mean that the end would be here ? I don't think so ! In 1914, the brothers were interpretating the events of their times at the light of the biblical prophecies and they said that the end was near, the same happened during WWII and it would happen again if another major war broke out. If they keep doing so at every major event in the world, one day, they'll be right ! lol Just like a stopped watch is right twice a day. I don't want to look for the harbingers of "the end of the world" in each and every midget development that may appear in the news. The different elements are taking shape and riping but the catalyst for the real McCoy is still in Jehovah's hands and maybe for some decades more !
Responding to the highlights: Yes, definitely - but what you are describing is the pre-crash world. WW1 and WW2 (along with other events you mentioned) aren't related to Bible prophecy because there was no death-stroke of the post-Roman world. If anything, they empowered the post-Roman world to truly dominate the globe. These were just wars, like all other wars, albeit with more powerful weaponry. That doesn't mean they weren't integral to setting up the final scenario, clearly they were! The Western economic crash, coming soon to a theater near you, will initiate this final period (in my opinion). I do agree that it's tiring and harmful spiritually focusing on these midget events, like Ukraine, Iraq, etc. (but they are a component to the season) Good point about 'speeding up though', it doesn't apply to world events.
Please, don't get me wrong and I know that you don't, but I must be precise as lurkers may read what I wrote. I don't think that being on the watch is stupid. I think that being watchful means being busy in what our Lord (especially concerning Christ's brothers) expects from us and not necessarily means being the winner of the universe-wide lottery => "the end was nigh and... yeah, I was right !" I'll answer you more thoroughly a bit later.... Here, it's chow time ! Edit : I just saw that you had made additions to your post and, as a result, it's timely that may go and grab a bite while you keep precising your thoughts.
Thanks Utuna, couldn't agree more! Hilarious... the apocalypse lottery, would you even want to win that? Better to live out our lives in this system than face the horror of Rev 13!
Well, as you already know, I don't think that the GB is the MOL, or at a pinch, not under the present form (and whose future form remains to be guessed), which is another reason why for me things aren't ripe. Besides, I wonder what the word "revealed" means here because if the GB/MOL must be revealed by the spirit of Jesus' mouth, does it mean that A) the true identity of the MOL is "deduced", which is already the case otherwise we all here would ignore it or B) does it mean that his true identity is exposed in the open, openly and above-board, like when he falls from his position or when his fall is in the newspapers ? Ahem ?!?!?! ====> What/who is Jesus' mouth ? If A is true, then one part of the prophecy is already fulfilled and the things on a worldwide basis should have been revving up since then, according to what you explained above. If B is true, then we must wait for the fall of the WT before things start moving. I think that the MOL is the antichrist, the KON/King of Babylon-(BTG)/Tyre, that is the leader (whomever/whatever that may be) of the last real human empire standing up to God and against Him, who will "lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god†or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god." or in other words, he will rebel against Christ's brothers, fight against them and conquer them to the point of pretending replacing them.
That's what the would-be prophets yearn to..... don't they ? To be the winners so they're conforted in their position and claims. Between you and me, wouldn't it humour the GB after one century of jibes against them ? I'm saying all of this because I think that to be too much on the watch is as dangerous as to be carefree.