Amos 7:1

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by john, Feb 25, 2014.

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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    1) Is Jesus’ coming to gather his chosen ones considered to be the day of the Lord?

    No but maybe immediately before, that is when signs start appearing in the sky, with the sun being darkened, etc. once the GT is over (compare Mat.24:29, Yoel 2:2,31 and Is. 13:9-13).

    I think that it may start when Babylon is devastated (Is13:11) and the Antichrist, its king, unmasked (2 Thess.2:3). That is when Jehovah intervenes and starts punishing the nations, Babylon being the first.

    I found something interesting. Please compare :

    "Before it [the] land has become agitated, [the] heavens have rocked. Sun and moon themselves have become dark, and the very stars have withdrawn their brightness." - Joel 2:10

    Here, "it" stands for "the people" in verse 2 and 5 ("it").

    Joel 2:10 NASU
    Before them the earth quakes,
    The heavens tremble,
    The sun and the moon grow dark
    And the stars lose their brightness.


    Joel 2:10
    The earth quakes as they advance,
    and the heavens tremble.
    The sun and moon grow dark,
    and the stars no longer shine.

    Holy Bible, NLT

    "As they come on, the earth quakes, the skies tremble, sun and moon grow dark, the stars lose their brilliance." - Joel 2:10 Jerusalem Bible

    That's funny because the French version of the Jerusalem Bible says : Before it, the earth quakes... Here, "it" stands also for "the people" in verse 2.

    The Osty Bible, the Louis Segond Bible say "it" too.

    Please compare with the earthquake mentioned in Rv11:13.

    2) What is the day of Jehovah?

    The same as the day of the Lord.

    I've got work to do. Sorry, I can't go any further into my research by now.

     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Sorry Josh but "it" stands for the day of Jehovah.

    2 Thess 2:3
    "or that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction."
    Holy Bible, NLT
     
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    john

    john Member

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    You beat me to it again…LOL!!!! :) I am writing up something now but I stopped for a moment to see if there were any new post and what you said above, I was going to include in what I am writing!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Your right, I misspoke... "it" is the day of the Lord. But, the meaning is still there that the chronology nor the context in 2Th fits the disgusting thing in a Holy Place. That was the point I was making.
     
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    john

    john Member

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    What you underlined to make your claim doesn’t seem to me to show what you are saying. Perhaps, someone else can comment and put their thoughts on if the context shows from “withinâ€.

    WOW…just in this moment as I wrote the above, a new way came to my mind as to reading these verses.

    The thought has been that this MOL is trying to hide himself in the temple and not be noticed and wants to continue that way so that he can stay in the temple and continue to mislead. And the “he†(whomever/whatever “he†is) that is a restraint that gets out of the way in order to reveal the MOL is doing so in order to expose, make known this MOL in order to not allow him to mislead any longer.

    Well that does not seem to be the case. I know I poorly worded my thoughts there and I am sure I will here to, but hear me out.

    The word “reveal†here is not do be taken in like someone is going to reveal the true colors of another, like some girl showing/revealing to her girl friend that the guy she is dating is really no good. Instead it is to be taken as this MOL is ready to show himself and make his public appearance because now is his due time to come on seen. He has been slowly working in the back ground working up to this moment putting everything in order and even thou he was ready earlier, the restraint had to stay in place to keep him back until the right time. Does the NWO (one world government) come to mind?

    Note I am rewording the following:

    However, brothers, respecting the arrival of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we request of YOU [SUP]2[/SUP] not to be quickly shaken from YOUR reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is here.[SUP]3[/SUP] Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless the falling away comes first and the man of lawlessness makes his public appearance/comes to power , the son of (the angel of the abyss) destruction/Annihilation (Abaddon/Destruction, Apollyon/“Destroyer). [SUP]4[/SUP] He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god†or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god. [SUP]5[/SUP] Do YOU not remember that, while I was yet with YOU, I used to tell YOU these things? [SUP]6[/SUP] And so now YOU know the thing that acts as a restraint, with a view to the MOL coming to power at the right time. [SUP]7[/SUP] True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work; but only till he who is right now acting as a restraint gets to be out of the way. [SUP]8[/SUP] Then, indeed, the MOL will come to power for his 42 months, but we know the Lord Jesus will do away with him after those 42 months we he arrives at the end of those months. [SUP]9[/SUP] But the MOL coming to power and ruling is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents [SUP]10[/SUP] and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved.

    As I mentioned, Utuna beat me to this…but just to be clear, the “it’ that won’t come is speaking of the day of the Lord. The day of the Lord won’t come until first the “falling away†occurs and the MOL is revealed.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    One can go around and around about this for ever and perpetually come up with scenarios. But, the simple fact is, the Disgusting Thing stands in a Holy Place after the day of the Lord.

    [​IMG]
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    As well it's quite simple that history shows that at the moment the Disgusting Thing entered the temple in 70CE was the moment of it's destruction.
     
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    john

    john Member

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    Will you answer my questions from post #66?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    The day of the Lord is the day Jesus is enthroned. The day the dead in Christ are raised. The day the Holy Spirit is poured out. The day of the last trumpet, the last bowl, and the first six seals. The day of the Lord is the last day of the 42 months. The day of the Lord is the day the King of the North hears reports out of the North. (Dan 11:40) The day of Atonement.
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Jerusalem and its temple will be destroyed at the start of the GT. A long time will have passed since the destruction of the temple before the disgusting thing enters it when you say it will.

    I don't understand what you are saying. Aren't you mixing things up ?
     
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Hi John,

    It is interesting to see you and Joshuastone7 go back and forth on this discussion.

    I'm not sure what his answer to your question will be.

    I'm thinking that the day of the Lord or the Last day begins with the gathering of the chosen ones and ends with Jesus bowing before and handing the completely repaired Kingdom over to His Father so that as Paul put it:

    1 Corinthians 15:
    28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

    And the "last day" is as Peter put it:

    2 Peter 3:
    8 However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.


    The bible is written in such a way to give us a inkling of Jehovah's view of time.


    belongingtojah
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    No, that is incorrect. Daniel 12:11 says there be will 1290 days between the Constant Feature going down and the Disgusting Thing set up. In 66CE there were sacrifices for the Roman people and emperor at the temple. When Rome circled the city, those sacrifices ceased. In our day that will be the Watchtower being no longer produced and the WTS being dissolved. Then 1290 days later, after Gods people have been brought back to him from captivity then the Disgusting Thing enters the temple.

    Again, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days between the Constant Feature being removed, and the Disgusting Thing placed.

    Was Jerusalem destroyed the moment the city was encircled? No... Those in Judea were told to flee and they began there captivity at that moment in 66CE, Rome didn't destroy the city until 70. This is what prophecy says will happen in the future as well.
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Any biblical verses to prove it ?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Yea, only about a billion...lol This is obviously the most action packed day in probably all of history before or after. I mentioned just a few events on that day, and they cover many, many prophecies. You know all of this is the exact subject of my work on the tab at the top of the page; The End Is Here!
     
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    john

    john Member

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    WOW again…

    Belongingtojah, it is usually Utuna that beats me to it but you have just touched on EXACTLY what I am working on right now.

    YES, Peter said to let that one fact not be escaping our notice!!!

    What I am writing up right now is based around that scripture. Its so cool when the things you have in your mind and you know that you have come to think that without any input (at least not being taught it, thou I am sure that there is input in someway) elsewhere and then you find out that others think or understand it that way as well. It is like a confirmation on it.

    It turns out that what I had just said about the MOL is not new (it is new to me) but is in harmony with other bible translations and that view is already out there in what the WTS calls Christendom, yet I really didn’t know until today. Something else I found out is that while I have been trying to find out who really is the MOL, I came across 1 John 2:18 from the marginal on 2 Thessalonians 2:3 in the NWT. So that’s going to give me something to mull over. :)

    Josh, THANKS for you answer but can you address the others too?

     
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    john

    john Member

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    You see, that is the problem right there. You continue to push “your workâ€￾ as if it is divinely done. You refer people to it as thou it is the correct understanding. You have no interest in discussing the bible apart from your so-called work. It is just like JW’s that won’t have a conversion about the bible apart from their WTS publications.

    If that were true, you would leave your so-called work aside when discussing matters here and allow for a grassroots discussion. If everything you have is correct then we will surely come to those conclusions together.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    You seem to be the only person with a "problem" with me referring to my work. Besides, I was talking to Utuna in that post, not you...

    That makes no sense, "You have no interest in discussing the bible apart from your so-called work." So I've done nothing but copy and paste from my "so-called work" huh? It sure would have been hard to answer all of these questions from you doing that. When you keep asking me to answer questions from post #66, are you not referring to something you've already previously written? How is that different?

    Well I tell you what, I don't need to discuss anything in my "so-called work" at all. To be honest, everything we've talked about in this thread so far I addressed long ago. I've studied the idea that the MOL is the KON, or Christendom, or Gog, or many other entities. I've studies if the Disgusting Thing standing in a Holy Place kicks of the GT, I've studied Rev 9 and the Locusts and wondered who they were, I studied the souls under the alter and who they were waiting for to be killed. I studied What comes first, what comes second, etc. You will never understand what each event is unless you know what event comes before or after another, and to be honest when you get to the real meat and potatoes of prophecy let me know, cause this going back and forth about what each scripture is actually saying in it's context without applying the chronology of Daniel and Revelation is boring me. My "so-called work" is my understanding. I am going to say things that are in there, and repeat things that are in there, because it is my understanding. I'm surprised at the short shortsightedness there.

    Do you know how many people start studding prophecy and then at one single point they skew off from what scripture is actually saying? They may have been right up until that point, but one single mistake and poof, It's from that point on everything they understand about chronology is wrong. I thought I might be able to help be a buffer and give you a sounding board, but sounds like I'm not the hard headed one here, it's you. This isn't a debate or argument to me, scripture is like an instrument. Nothing more need said there.

    You try and insult me with your "so-called work" and "Your work' as if divinely done." Even the Bible writers knew their work was simply inspired, not divinely written for them. Some people come to the understanding that Jesus was created. Does that make them divinely inspired? Some people come to the understanding that 1914 wasn't the year Jesus was enthroned, does that make them inspired? Holy Spirit brought them to that understanding. So if I'm right on only one thing, it's by Holy Spirit. But, what if, let's just say for grin sake, what if I'm right about more? What does that mean? Divinely inspired? Or is it Holy Spirit?
     
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    jehovahisgod

    jehovahisgod Experienced Member

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    great red sacred cows! I'm calling the GB to come and imprison all of you at the table were they write watchtower articles! You all have a talent for building bible books! me I get confused about spelling my name. l.o.l
     
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    john

    john Member

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    Its totally different!!! I referring back to questions I asked you that you didn’t answer and I am asking if you can go back to the post and answer those questions. When you refer me to something, it is to your work and I am suppose to read it like you are teaching me the correct understanding.

    YES, I know that and that’s fine…but as I pointed out above, because you feel that your understandings are rock solid then you don’t allow for any other possibilities. For instance, I said that I can’t ignore what scripture you cited at Rev about Jesus’ brothers being killed and I said that I will have to see what it is saying and who’s who. I cited scriptures that show that the dead and the living are said to go in the clouds at the same time to meet Jesus and that it is said that the living go in a twinkling of an eye at that time and are suppose to never see death…and you say nope only dead rise and nope the two witnesses are the only two that won’t be changed in an instant, etc. But just like I can’t ignore what scripture you cited based on what it says and I see that, how can you not only ignore but make up an explaination that is not there?

    To me inspired and divine is interchangeable in this case, so if you don’t take it that way then I will say that I used the wrong word every time I said divine and please know when you read that word that I meant inspired. :)

    I am not trying to insult you. But I speak up to you about it because you are railroading any one that you send to your work for your answers to a discussion that in almost in real time. I know your veiw on the MOL based on your work and I don’t agree with it so if you send me to your work for your part of the discussion saying you’ve coverd that so go read it. That to me says that you are saying that is the understanding I am to have too… end of dicussion. I know it is your understanding and that’s fine, but if you are discussing something with others in ordter to come to a better/correct understanding then you have to do it a a unbiased way. You and Robert act like because y’all had a book printed that what is in there is the way it is. Guess what, the WTS had/has many books printed!

    Obviouly, I don’t belong here…as you said; I seem to be the only one that has a problem with you referring to your work.

    There is a quote that I am fond of:
    I guess that can go either way.
    :rolleyes:

    I’ll keep a look out for the news reports that are suppose to come out from the UN against the WTS!:p
     
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    jehovahisgod

    jehovahisgod Experienced Member

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    its like watching to brothers beating each other with hotwhells tracks!
     

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