An excerpt from the Watchtower regarding who they say the locusts are in Revelation 9.

Toward the end of the first century C.E., the apostle John received a vision of seven angels, each of whom sounded a trumpet blast. When the fifth angel blew his trumpet, John saw “a star” fall from heaven to earth. The “star” had a key in his hand with which he opened the shaft of an abyss. Thick smoke poured out, and from this came a plague of locusts. Rather than ravage vegetation, the symbolic locusts swarm against “those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.” (Rev. 9:1-4) John no doubt knew how devastating a locust swarm could be. Had not locusts plagued ancient Egypt in Moses’ day? (Ex. 10:12-15) The figurative locusts that John saw well illustrate anointed Christians proclaiming Jehovah’s powerful judgment messages. They are joined now by millions of companions with an earthly hope. Little wonder that our united preaching undermines the authority Satan exercises through his worldwide empire of false religion.

So in essence, if the GB are saying that the locusts are the 144,000 then surely they must see who is the locusts king is, or don't they??
I think this passage gives us the answer, "Their king is the angel from the bottomless pit; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon—the Destroyer."
I find it very strange that they have come to the conclusion that Christ is the destroyer! The king of the locusts.
If you research it you soon realise who the destroyer is, Abaddon.
Regarding Rev 9 & the locusts, after studying it directly from the scriptures to me it seems obvious that Christ is not the destroyer, if He was then does this not make Him also Abaddon the destroyer, the king of the locusts? Am I making sense?
Locusts are know for being destructive also been know to be a curse or plaugue regarding their invasion upon crops etc, so why would locusts be represented as giving "truth", truth that saves lives, giving salvation. In Revelation 9 the locusts take on another form that merge them together, the scorpion, so we have locust type scorpion, so now not only do the locust destroy & devour but they have now inflict a sting. So what is this sting that the locust/scorpion have? Could it be death? Scorpion sting injects deadly venom into it's victim, so in a symbolic sense what could this symbolic venom be that would lead to death? We have to look at what the scorpions ultimate mission is & understand what they need to try & accomplish to complete what they set out to do.
Take a look at 1 Corinthians 15:55-56 (NKJV)
"O Death, where is your sting?"
"O Hades, where is your victory?"
Again I believe these locust scorpions not to be a literal mutant creature but a symbolic description.
For me to see Christ as "the destroyer" is baffling, yes He has been given the authority to judge but to me it is clear that Christ is first & foremost the redeemer & not the destroyer! He desires all to come to know the Father & like the Father He doesn't wish any to perish only to have life, life given via His vine.
Ephesians 1:7, We have redemption through his blood.
Hebrews 9:12, By his own blood … obtained eternal redemption for us.
Romans 3:24, Through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
Luke 1:68-69, Praise the Lord, the God of Israel, for he has come to visit his people and has redeemed them. He is sending us a Mighty Savior from the royal line of his servant David
1 Corinthians 1:30, For it is from God alone that you have your life through Christ Jesus. He showed us God’s plan of salvation; he was the one who made us acceptable to God; he made us pure and holy and gave himself to purchase our salvation.

 

One more time to Wallflower,

I don't think you have anything to worry about from people 'following' me, as some have mistakenly reasoned as my motive, do you? As most the JW's are told UFO's are from Satan, etc. Illusions, merely...like magic.

I have posted my theory about UFO's and demons above for several years, and out of all the people that read about them, only one was interested enough to even ask me about UFO's, or my experience: my future wife, before we ever met.

Personally, I find it extremely interesting...fascinating, and how it ties into scripture. No one else seems to care, I guess. But if ever 'they' come....

I have interests, some do not. Personally the thread, "What Music do you listen to?" is not something I would ever waste any time doing, on a site dedicated to learning knowledge of God and his Son, but, hey....each to his/her own.

Yet obviously it is almost number one among members and readers.

Also, the 'sons of God', anointed, spirit re-birth, this, too, is of little-to-no interest to most JW's. Why? Could it be because the WT Society claims those who have received the special call are mentally ill, or demon-possessed, or having LSD and other drug flashbacks?

Yet, the 'Sons of God' are the Main Event of the New Testament end-time prophecies, and were number one in first century writing; all were considered sons of God; children of the promise.

Women like one thing, men like another. Musicians, accountants, truck drivers, florists,...everybody is entitled to their special interest, and place in God's New Kingdom. And even now. We should appreciate all coming here to associate with others who worship Jehovah and his Son. And not desire to stumble any, or 'push' any out from under the shade tree this place is; a refuge for those wanting to find others who were/are burned by WT.

Do I still hold a grudge? Oh yes, and I believe WT GB is out for money, too. And they will burn everybody, and affect the faith of millions, just as you three moderators do. And, I won't try to tell you anymore to get out. You have your friends and relatives there.

I have stated many things I thought about for 10 years or so on this site, and I'm just about finished. But there is little interest in what I have said, so I don't believe you have anything to worry about. Do you?

Continue to do the work for God you feel urged to do. Mine is laid out for any to see.

 

I received one reply that addressed my question. That was from Joshuastone. Thank you Joshuastone. Also belongingtojah, yes, there are other gifts of the spirit such as mentioned by Paul, in his first letter to those in Corinth.

“Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.” (1 Co 12:4-11 NASB )

Jesus said, “For many are called, but few are chosen.” (Mt 22:14 NASB ) This is the only recorded place where this statement is given. The word “chosen” used here, is eklektos (ek-lek-tos') or elect, and not anointed chrio (khree'-o). So, the “gift of the Holy Spirit” does not necessarily mean “anointed”. We must understand the differences because Jesus said of the end times, “Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.” (Mt 24:22 NASB ) Throughout the Greek scriptures, those mentioned as chosen are “elect”.There is only one place where they are called anointed (chrio), at 2 Co 1:21, where Paul says, “But the one who guarantees that you and we belong to Christ and the one who anointed us is God.” (NWT)

Aliens, locusts, or anything else, have nothing to do with anointed ones? Those posts are off subject statement and irrelevant.

 

John S

I’m not uncomfortable with discussing demons, women and sex. Some of the clients I work with are survivors of child sexual abuse or were raped as adults. They experience depression and post-traumatic syndrome and other issues. It’s not a pleasant aspect of my work and is very confronting, but I’m accustomed to it. Got a cast-iron stomach so there ain’t much that fazes me.

The reason why I posted the moderating comment is because the last time the topic of aliens and UFO’s came up on the forum, it ended up being a source of contention. It was mentioned in the “What Does God’s Kingdom Mean?” thread.

If I see that a topic reappears and if I remember that it caused contention on the previous occasion that it was posted, then I will weigh in and say so.


Quoted below, is a post that I made on the “God’s Kingdom” thread.

“In my line of work, I meet a variety of people of all backgrounds. When I work with clients, I am also introduced to other family members.

I've had many a conversation with some men who are into planes, cars and anything that goes.

Some of them have talked about the aerodynamics of "flying saucers" or disks.

They have talked in detail about the schematics and design of this sort of craft - what would be required for engine thrust, etc.

I'm not an engineer but from what I have seen (in diagrams) and heard them say, this sounds feasible to me.

They also talked about how there was research done on this in Germany in WW2.

It is the kind of information that makes me wonder "well why can't man have designed that?"

Why does it have to be from "aliens?"

Man has had several decades to "play around" with this technology. Perhaps he has developed some prototypes and "roadtests" them to see how they perform.”



I have these conversations about UFO’s, flying saucers or flying disks several times each month, with people who are knowledgeable in this area. I have seen dozens of diagrams of flying saucers. I’ve got an interest in mechanical things. I believe that it is within man’s capability to build a craft like this. Why wouldn’t he be able to?

I don’t get what is hard about it. Every time I come away from one of these conversations about aerodynamics, I ask myself: “What’s so hard about this?” And man has had years to play with the technology.

No, I don’t believe that the demons are flying UFO’s. I also don’t believe that they are walking around with visible humanoid bodies. Jehovah already took care of the problem when he caused the Flood in Noah’s time. Why would He allow the demons the same degree of access at this point in time?

 

An excerpt from the Watchtower regarding who they say the locusts are in Revelation 9.

Toward the end of the first century C.E., the apostle John received a vision of seven angels, each of whom sounded a trumpet blast. When the fifth angel blew his trumpet, John saw “a star” fall from heaven to earth. The “star” had a key in his hand with which he opened the shaft of an abyss. Thick smoke poured out, and from this came a plague of locusts. Rather than ravage vegetation, the symbolic locusts swarm against “those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.” (Rev. 9:1-4) John no doubt knew how devastating a locust swarm could be. Had not locusts plagued ancient Egypt in Moses’ day? (Ex. 10:12-15) The figurative locusts that John saw well illustrate anointed Christians proclaiming Jehovah’s powerful judgment messages. They are joined now by millions of companions with an earthly hope. Little wonder that our united preaching undermines the authority Satan exercises through his worldwide empire of false religion.

So in essence, if the GB are saying that the locusts are the 144,000 then surely they must see who is the locusts king is, or don't they??
I think this passage gives us the answer, "Their king is the angel from the bottomless pit; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon—the Destroyer."
I find it very strange that they have come to the conclusion that Christ is the destroyer! The king of the locusts.
If you research it you soon realise who the destroyer is, Abaddon.
Regarding Rev 9 & the locusts, after studying it directly from the scriptures to me it seems obvious that Christ is not the destroyer, if He was then does this not make Him also Abaddon the destroyer, the king of the locusts? Am I making sense?
Locusts are know for being destructive also been know to be a curse or plaugue regarding their invasion upon crops etc, so why would locusts be represented as giving "truth", truth that saves lives, giving salvation. In Revelation 9 the locusts take on another form that merge them together, the scorpion, so we have locust type scorpion, so now not only do the locust destroy & devour but they have now inflict a sting. So what is this sting that the locust/scorpion have? Could it be death? Scorpion sting injects deadly venom into it's victim, so in a symbolic sense what could this symbolic venom be that would lead to death? We have to look at what the scorpions ultimate mission is & understand what they need to try & accomplish to complete what they set out to do.
Take a look at 1 Corinthians 15:55-56 (NKJV)
"O Death, where is your sting?"
"O Hades, where is your victory?"

In Rev 9 its says: The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. They had what looked like gold crowns on their heads, and their faces looked like human faces. They had hair like women’s hair and teeth like the teeth of a lion. They wore armor made of iron, and their wings roared like an army of chariots rushing into battle. They had tails that stung like scorpions, and for five months they had the power to torment people. Their king is the angel from the bottomless pit; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon—the Destroyer.
Here it mentions that THEIR KING (the locusts) is the angel from the bottomless pit, yet in Joel it indicates the locusts are God's army?
Rev 11:7 When they [the two witnesses] have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the Abyss
Rev 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.
So is not Rev 11:7 and 17:8 referring to Abaddon as the "beast" who will ascend from the bottomless pit? So again could this be a symbolic reference with regards to first part of Revelation 13:1, the release of Abaddon?
I believe that it is God using Satan's army to carry out His will, yet in Joel it makes it clear that the army is in fact "the LORD'S army" & in revelation it indicates it is from Satan, so does it not make sense that God uses/directs/controls Satan's army to do His will?
I think Abaddon possibly is actually Satan. Is not The king also called or known as the angel of the abyss aswell. Surely this indicates that he must be messenger as that is what an "angel" but he is not an angel of truth but an angel of evil, an angel of death, just as Christ is the king of truth & life.
After Satan is released does not Satan ascend from the abyss, set free, as stated in Revelation 20:3 & 7.
So before the wild beast appears from that exact domain is not Satan already out of the abyss.
So can we conclude that in fact Abaddon rules the abyss, he is the "king" of the abyss, which obviously means he rules over the locust armies & also he must rule over the wild beast aswell.
Again I believe these locust scorpions are not of a literal mutant creature but a symbolic description.
For me to see Christ as "the destroyer" is baffling, yes He has been given the authority to judge but to me it is clear that Christ is first & foremost the redeemer & not the destroyer! He desires all to come to know the Father & like the Father He doesn't wish any to perish only to have life, life given via His vine.
Ephesians 1:7, We have redemption through his blood.
Hebrews 9:12, By his own blood … obtained eternal redemption for us.
Romans 3:24, Through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
Luke 1:68-69, Praise the Lord, the God of Israel, for he has come to visit his people and has redeemed them. He is sending us a Mighty Savior from the royal line of his servant David
1 Corinthians 1:30, For it is from God alone that you have your life through Christ Jesus. He showed us God’s plan of salvation; he was the one who made us acceptable to God; he made us pure and holy and gave himself to purchase our salvation.

 

If you read all of Revelation 9 in context of the event, it's really not a stretch; I tend to agree with them.

Some key attributes of the "destroyer" and the "locusts":

- "the key to the shaft of the abyss was given to him"

Compare to Rev 1:18 about Jesus "the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades."

- "They were told not to harm ..., but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads."

Compare to ancient Egypt when the angel(s) of "death" killed those firstborn without the blood of a lamb on their door.

- "on their heads were what seemed to be crowns of gold, and their faces were like human faces, but they had hair like women’s hair."

Compare to the "Kings and Priests" 144k, crowns, humans, "women" bride of Christ

- "They have over them a king, the angel of the abyss"

Jesus is the angel-king who has the "key" to "death and Hades", and he is most certainly coming as a destroyer when he overthrows human government! Compare with Daniel 2 when the "rock" not formed by human hands SMASHES the statue of nations.

These locusts of course being distinct from the Assyrian army in Joel. Key distinctions - Assyria was used to judge Israel, in Revelation these locusts judge those not sealed by God. (reversed)

"Locusts" in these instances aren't corollary prophecies, but corollary conceptions, if that makes sense.

----------

Well we've ruined your thread Tsaphah

However, I think it answers your initial question: we're stuck interpreting for now!

 

Thankyou for your sharing your understanding on it SingleCell, but if Christ is indeed the destroyer what about what it says Isaiah.33:1.
If we recall, the wild beast collective of Locusts is said to blasphemous as we can see in Revelation 13:5,6.
Also what about the false prophet as stated in Revelation 13:11,15,7 that speaks like a dragon & also teaches doctrines of demons, see Revelation16:13,14.
With regards to Joel 2:25,26 & the references to the locusts, God actually destroys them & He rewards His people for all their sufferings inflicted the locusts persecution.
“So I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten,
The crawling locust,
The consuming locust,
And the chewing locust,
My great army which I sent among you.
You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied,
And praise the name of the Lord your God,
Who has dealt wondrously with you;
And My people shall never be put to shame."
Maybe it's not as obvious as one may think, why assume that there is only one key with only one that has access to it or holds it? Has not Satan been murdering right from the start?
"For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies." - John 8:44.
With regards to death in the Garden of Eden, was it not Satan that caused this to happen? Has he not the power to kill? Have not every man / human been captures & imprisoned with regards to death since Satan caused it to be, way back at the beginning? Yes!
If we look at these scriptures quoted here, it clearly indicates that Christ indeed conquered Satan with regards to his power to inflict & cause death.
2 Timothy 1:10
but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death for all time, And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces, And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken.
Hosea 13:14
Shall I ransom them from the power of Sheol? Shall I redeem them from death? O Death, where are your thorns? O Sheol, where is your sting? Compassion will be hidden from My sight.
1 Corinthians 15:24,26
then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
Hebrews 2:14
Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:4
and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."
Luke 20:35,36
but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
2 Corinthians 5:1,2
For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven.
John 11:43,44
When He had said these things, He cried out with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come forth." The man who had died came forth, bound hand and foot with wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth. Jesus said to them, "Unbind him, and let him go."
Romans 1:4
who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,
Revelation 1:18
and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
John 5:28,29
"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
So does this not imply that both Christ & Satan have control over death so both surely must possess the key to it. Christ is the one that saves us from death whereas Satan is the one that causes it, so they both must have access to open it.
Also we must remember that the "key" will be a symbolic key.

 

Tsaphath,

I think some are very clearly trying to define locusts. .....as prophecy has been demanded for proof that there are anointed, reborn Christians on earth at this time. It all ties in, doesn't it? Revelation's prophecies are pivotal to your question's answer.

You are skeptical, or even cynical about being anointed/reborn.

You claim there is no such thing. And this , really is the stand of WT...which they enforce by intimidating, then ostracizing those who are from their ranks asap.

This is happening now more than ever. Why would they do this? Their authority and power over millions of people and billions of dollars...that is what THEY are afraid of losing, is it not?

May that really be the issue? Why do WT and their members not believe is Jesus good news about being reborn into the heavenly kingdom, and having God and Christ dwell inside us, becoming , 'One', with us?

Notice what Jesus said about those who are reborn;

"The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So is everyone that has been born from the spirit." John 3:8

It is invisible, and personal. When you read 1 Cor. 2...more testimony from the Apostle Paul is given concerning spiritual matters , especially the re-birth.

You and anyone else may be puzzled by those who have , or claimed to have been born again, with Christ and Jehovah God coming to live right inside one. You are NOT alone, as among JW's almost no one believes the common publisher is born again...unless he/she is at least 70....

This Tsaphath, is the issue. The anointing...and you are right atop the big question...and the big subject. Now, answer one for me, will you?

Why are Jesus Christ and his Apostles making such a Big Deal about it, and (2, sorry), why does WT continue to attempt to KILL it?

 

Sister Wallflower,

Thanks for writing a reply about demons, etc. I also am now aware of what you are doing in your profession, and will respect your feelings for this tender subject.

On the other hand, your friends who have described man's efforts to possibly engineer anti-gravity aircraft fall a wee bit short of what is now being seen all over the earth since WWII especially...when Nazis didn't even have rocket-powered jets till '45...vert primitive.

We are talking about hovering aircraft over a mile wide...some say 2 miles wide...as big as a small city. Now...you are one professional , but not in this field, isn't that right?

I cannot explain to you HOW these beings built the craft...no more than the blind man Jesus cured can explain how he did it. (John 9)

But, the Bible says Satan would come back with a third of the stars of heaven, and start up a last earthly beast-government that would wow the world as something like 'gods'.

I....I...believe it is possible that either they are starting to come in now...or have been for some time...OR...we are being reconned in advance of his arrival. That is my belief based on scripture, and what we are now seeing...what I...I , myself,... have seen. I don't know why I saw these things over 50 years, but I am glad I did, because it has helped to piece together the big picture, at least for me. The universe is huge: and is filled with transient, intelligent beings...who like here on earth...are not all worshipers of God and his Son. (Rev. 12)

 

Let's back up from asking for proof of being anointed, or reborn of God's spirit, and think about ourselves...our own mind, and heart..."am I anointed, or have I received God's spirit?" And,...

"Is there evidence in my life, that I have God inside me?"

As JW's, we did pray for Jehovah's spirit to be upon us...daily sometimes, did we not? Do you not? Are we, as Witnesses, not supposed to "walk according to the spirit, not the flesh."?

Well, in your instructing others, at Bible study, or family study, do you not pray for the spirit to activate thoughts, and affect hearts? When you do personal study, aren't you praying to Father, asking for him to instruct you ...personally...right there and then...to influence your thoughts, and change bad ways, and tendencies?

All that and more, is the same thing the scriptures emphasize the need for holy spirit, and God's guidance; to learn (John 17:3), apply (P. 25:5), and GROW.

How....how can we achieve the 'Oneness' Jesus taught? Not, 'unity' of mind, or thinking, alone...but God, and his Son...right there in our heart, mind, soul, and life...our very bodies.

Most all Witnesses know about Jehovah, the history of him dealing with Moses, Abraham, Noah, David, Daniel, and all ancient Jewish servants/prophets. The problem does not lay there. It is a matter of not having knowledge of the Son, and his directives, and that is what WT is currently all about. Keeping that knowledge away from everyone.

"This means everlasting life. ..their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one you sent forth, Jesus Christ." J17:3(of course)

The good news message emanates from Christ, primarily, although it has been prophetically foreshadowed by prophecy put into writing by the prophets of Hebrew times, in my thinking.

"I am the way, and the truth, and the light." , he said. (John 14)"No one comes to the Father except through me."

"They have now come to know that all the things you gave me are from you." John 17:7

If you read the words of Christ carefully, you will begin to see, Christendom's churches have a better handle on Jesus' teachings than Witnesses, and why is that?

Do you think they would ever dream of putting their church's interpretations of the good news over Christ's? No, most do NOT want anything to do with a so-called Faithful and Discreet slave...who has moved itself into Christ's position as the 'Word of God'.

In Romans 8, and other places, learning and having Christ, and his teachings in our mind and heart is taught. So, isn't that something noble, and new that we should strive to attain? After all, it is the command of God.

"This is my Son, the beloved; listen to him." Mark 9:7

How do you feel about Him, Jesus? Is he, personally someone you feel you have a relationship with, like the apostles, and disciples did?

Notice Stephen's prayer at Acts 7:59, 60

"Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."...then, "Jehovah, do not charge this sin against them."

So...here Stephen affectionately prays to Christ; first, even! Then to the Father. Witnesses are taught it is taboo to pray to Christ, or have any communication with him. Is that right? Scriptural? He is merely a telephone link-up....a wavelength to send a message on.

Jesus teaches differently; that we are to become his subjects, him, our Lord and Savior, instructor, and protector. Jehovah has given us ALL into his hand.

"I will ask the Father, and he will give you another to be with you forever; the Spirit..."

It is a new concept for Witnesses. I call it the anointing, rebirth, Oneness, and others. Whatever it is, WT is fighting it...and hard. But it is clear from the scriptures; we need to grow here, and improve.

Once you see the importance of reaching for more of this knowledge, and intimacy...you will grow in the experience of Oneness, where Jesus, too, becomes real, and interacts with you as Father Jehovah has, for all your years,...and mine too.

That is all. You all know what walking with God means; as you do this every day.

Now, think about walking with Christ, as your real, living shepherd, right inside you through the holy spirit. That is how you can understand what it means to be a disciple of Christ, and not the Faithful Slave.

"When he has got all his own out, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice." John 10:4

Now, one last thing; does this sound like I am trying to get anyone to follow me? Seriously!

 

Hi John,

This message that comes from the anointing spirit is truly a wonderful gift from our Father and His dear Son.

Those who have recieved this gift of anointing know it in their hearts. This is not obvious to the rest of the world as it is a very personal and individual thing. We have talked of this before and I know that it truly is a undeserved kindness or grace if you will from Them to us by the spirit.

This gift of the spirit should set us free from looking to any man or men or group of men. It truly sets you free from those who want to dominate you.

This comment is not directed just to the men in bethel but to all who want to dominate and take Jesus rightful place as our Lord and Master.

I really don't want to follow you but I do wish to walk with you side by side with the spirit guiding us along the way.

Have a nice day brother.

Joe

 

Yes! Side-by-side, only looking to the head who is Jesus.

There are many members on the body with different functions; humans, across the board, love creating objects of worship.

Anything to make God physical and present.

 

Si, senior! "Yes! Side-by-side, only looking to the head who is Jesus."

This is the way. I am reminded of the times years ago when we were going door-to-door with the 'Kingdom Message'...in the 70's.

We were trying to convince people that the Kingdom was a heavenly government that was bringing Armageddon, then a paradise, resurrection...etc. almost immediately ahead, 1975, actually. We had carefully framed arguments with cherry-picked verses, all designed to PROVE this was going to happen...and only a generation from 1914, so, now let us get in there (their living room) and we'll show you in just a few minutes how a 6-month Bible study course will save the lives of you and your family from certain and everlasting death!

Of course, the householder had to parry that sword-thrust with one of his own; a quote from Luke 17: 20,21 KJ...

"Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The Kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ' Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

So....we counter, "Well the New World translation, a literal word-for-word Greek rendering from world-renowned Wescott and Hort says, "In your midst". In other words...Jesus , the kingdom's ruler was right there talking to them, but the Pharisees didn't believe in him."

Little did I suspect then, that WT had doctored this text as well, as the Wes. /Hort literal translation , which I have my 45-year old copy in front of me says there;

..."neither will they say Look! here or There; look! for the for the kingdom of the God inside of you is."

Christ is alluding to the future time when the spirit is poured out, like anointing oil upon the head. God and his son become one through the blending of their minds with yours...they being conscious of your thoughts, and you being taught , comforted, enlightened, directed through their minds. You also are one of God's 'sons of the kingdom'...and a brother of Christ, soon, someday...to take your position in the spirit world wherever that is, in a galaxy far, far away (chuckle), or a dimension only known by those who live there, whatever.

That spirit is what makes Jehovah's Witnesses special. Jehovah's worshipers feel the spirit, yes, we who once were JW's still feel it inside. But along with the knowledge about the 'mind of Christ', something new has been added.

"...in order that all (ones) one (thing) they may be, according as you, Father, in me and I in you, in order that also they in us, they may be, in order that the world may believe that you me sent forth." (John 17:21 in WH's Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures)

The prophesy in Daniel foretells these 'sons of the kingdom' would be ruling forever. Revelation says they will rule "UPON the earth"...(not over). (again W & H from Rev. 5:10)...exactly how Revelation 21,22 show the Heavenly Kingdom descends down to the earth after the 'thousand years' have ended, and the temple is here, along with the sons of the kingdom, and Christ; even Jehovah himself.

Yes, the kingdom starts with an invisible occurence; the rebirth of the spirit...but will end in a physical, more tangible form, spectacularly observed, and attended by billions of humans resurrected to partake from the trees of life, and waters of life.

How figurative? We wait and see. I sure hope the resurrection is literal...and the eternal life promised. I do believe this will be just as real as the Garden of Eden was.

No, at the present time, no truly born of God person wants anyone or anything being worshiped other than Jehovah God, and his Son. (kinda lost about the last comment there single cell...) But, I only know some things, and we will soon see things just as they are, of course. (1 Cor. 1

Amen to all who have Jehovah's spirit of wisdom, let us serve shoulder to shoulder under Christ our Lord and Head.

 

Good summary John.

Babylon the Great exists because people want a Golden Calf; faith in the "unseen" is "too hard".

The physical manifestation of God on earth in the form of a "church system" with a human leader.

It's the reason Israel wanted a king. It's why people back political candidates with religious fervor.

 

Ahhh, yes, I see...true. We all need more faith.

You remind me of a conversation I just had with my atheist neighbor about Trump and the upcoming Republican primary. He said Trump supporters may burn the convention building down if he doesn't win the nomination. I don't follow the race myself, but I know the facts of history; people will follow their idol to the death quite often.

Worship indeed.

He does respect Jesus much more than his Protestant followers, he says. He is a history major and studies a lot about various warfare through the ages, and I believe he doesn't believe because of religious warfare.

 

That's too bad! "religious warfare" is a bit of a misnomer.

There have been very few 'religious wars'; and the majority of them were Islamic, a nuance lost on most people.

The oft-sited "Crusades" were primarily a response to the Arab-Byzantium wars, for example, and had very little to do with "Christianity" other than cursory statements to motivate the Crusaders. (if that makes sense)

The NYT best seller "Dawn to Decadence" by Jaques Barzun deals with this issue and I think adequately demonstrates that Christianity created our current "freedoms" in the West, along with the majority of modern science. Might be worth a suggestion to him.

 

Here is why there are no true prophets today, and there have not been, since the apostle John, until the return of Christ. Anyone claiming to be a prophet is a false prophet.

“For I testify together with every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this Book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add upon him the plagues having been written in this Book. And if anyone takes away from the words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and of the things having been written in this Book.” (Rev 22:18-19 LITV)

There are those who claim that it only pertains to this book. That is not true. Here is why: prophecy
A. a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp., by foretelling future events.

According to Coffman’s commentary, The sacred prohibition against either adding to or taking from the word of God may not be restricted to the book of Revelation. We have already noted that John was conscious of this book’s being the last of the sacred canon (see under v. 11); and it should be observed here that John tailored his words to include both his prophecy and the canon. “Prophecy of this book” (Revelation 22:18), means the book of Revelation; “book of this prophecy” (Revelation 22:19) means the entire Bible. There is the additional fact that the prohibition against adding to or taking from, is here identical with the warning in the Old Testament to the same effect (Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32). John was not conscious merely of writing Scripture, but of writing the final Scripture.
The solemn prohibitions here are not directed solely against copyists, but against all perverters of sacred truth. We view these two verses as the words of Jesus.” Swete says, “The speaker is surely Jesus.” Why should John have appended this here when he did not do so in the case of his gospel? This action here, signaling the end of the New Testament, was not taken by John, but by Jesus.
(James Burton Coffman)