Apologetics - Defending our Faith

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Tsaphah, Jul 18, 2016.

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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Last Saturday, I had quite a surprise. I happened to look out my window, to see a large group of people gathering, about 16, with cloth bags. They were of all ages. I mentioned it to my wife, as one of the young men looked like the grandson of our neighbor. After a few minutes, my wife said, “No, they’re probably Jehovah’s Witnesses. They’re saying a prayer.”

    As I looked out again, two women started walking up to our door. My wife told me to not answer it. But . . . my “guard dogs” started barking loudly. (Schnauzers) So, I opened the door and stepped out onto the porch to greet them. They explained that they were spreading the word of GOD, and asked if I would like a book, titled “Bible Answers”.

    I realized they were not JW’s, but accepted the book. I informed them that I was well versed in the scriptures, and started conversing with them. I assumed they were likely Baptists. As we talked, I asked which church they were associated with. Before they could answer, I opened the book and saw, printed inside the cover: “Seventh-Day Adventist Church”. What???

    They just came from their service at their church. I told them that I was very surprised because the only groups that I knew of were JW’s, Mormons, and a few Baptists. I’ve known and worked with Adventists, and they never spoke of missionary or local reaching out, to seek new members.

    After they left, I started reading one of the books and it only took a few sentences to see their misinformation and false teachings. The worst was as described by Paul. ( 1 Tim 6:3-5 ), ( Co 1:20-25 )

    The following is from: The Creation of Jesus?
    Q. Based on Colossians 1:15, many say Christ was created or born. Does this mean He’s not deity?

    A. I believe Colossians 1:15, which reads, “[Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature,” is a very clear reference about the awesome nature of Christ, which is a belief under attack even in many Christian churches. The Messianic prophecy in Psalm 89:27 also reads, “I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth,” showing that Christ was not the firstborn prior to the creation narrative in Genesis, but rather He was to be made firstborn after the Psalmist penned his words. “The firstborn of every creature” is explained in Colossians 1.18 as “the firstborn from the dead.”
    We can also use a modern-day example. In America, we call the president’s wife First Lady, but that doesn’t mean she was the first lady born. It merely designates her role in America. Colossians should be read in the same way.
    The word firstborn in Greek does not mean first one given birth to. Instead, it means the one who has priority—the one who has first position. A more accurate translation might say, “Who is the image of the invisible God, the first of every creature, or the highest of every creature.”
    Another thing we need to remember is all of the times Jesus called Himself infinite. You can’t ignore those Scriptures when understanding His nature! For instance, Christ said, “Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58). He also calls Himself the Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:8). Jesus is from everlasting to everlasting (Isaiah 63:16; Psalm 90:2). And one of the best Scriptures to explain that Christ is eternal is in the gospel of John. “All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made” (1.3). If Christ made everything that’s made, He couldn’t have made Himself. He’s always existed!
    Let’s look at another verse where we find a similar problem. Many take John 316, which says, “his only begotten son,” and say that Jesus was begotten. yet these people forget that when the Holy Spirit came upon Mary, it was the first time that God was born as a man. Christ is the only one of the Godhead who became a man, and so that’s one way you can look at this.
    Also, when we translate from Greek the phrase “the first begotten” or “the only begotten” or “the firstborn,” that word can be translated as “the one who has preeminence of every creature.” It doesn’t necessarily mean He was born. Does it mean that the Father has a womb and gave birth to Jesus?
    Of course, this is an utterly ridiculous idea, but it helps illustrate the trouble in taking some passages of scripture too literally.
    Jesus has always been and will always be. He is divine and one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” (Hebrews 13:8).

    From “The Amazing Facts Book of Bible Answers Volume 1” with Doug Batchelor, pg 11-12.
    Copyright © 2006 by Doug Batchelor
    ______________________________________________________
    Although the KJV interprets Matthew 1:25 as “firstborn son”, the word prototokos does not appear in the major manuscripts. It essentially says; “. . . she brought forth a son . . .”

    Talk about misleading information and another sneaky way of claiming Jesus to be GOD. Especially the leading sentence of the last paragraph. This way they can claim a difference from, and no association with the Catholic Church. It’s a similar way that the Baptists claim to never having been a part of the Catholic Church, and not Protestants.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Thank you for the experience brother....

    You know what the sad part about it is, even if you had said anything in objection, they simply wouldn't listen, but either feel they need to fix you, or find you lost.

    Unfortunately such is the world we live in, everyone thinks they know everything already instead of being open to the possibility that they are wrong.

    In my opinion, it's time to shake up the bowl, GOD willing...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I think they will be back for the “return visit”. I’ll be kind, and not break their hearts with “that information is all lies”!! I’ll kindly tell them to continue studying God’s word. And, I’ll thank them for the books. I can use them for reference. Like Paul, it is necessary to learn about those corrupting the truth, and learn how to offer correct scriptural references.;)
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I was talking with a friend yesterday about bible translations and, the fact that God’s name has essentially been eradicated/removed from the bible. I asked, How important is a name? “It is used to identify a person”, was the reply. I used another example; What does it mean when it is said, “Stop! In the name of the law! Is there a name for the law?” There could be several names involved, depending on which “law” is being enforced. It also could refer to a body of laws.

    The following is taken from “The Desire of Ages”, chapter 1 - “God With Us”.

    “His name shall be called Immanuel, . . . . God with us.” “The light of the knowledge of the glory of God” is seen “in the face of Jesus Christ.” From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father. He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, “the outshining of His glory.” It was to manifest this glory that He came to our world. To this sin-darkened earth He came to reveal the light of God’s love,—to be “God with us.” Therefore it was prophesied of Him, “His name shall be called Immanuel.”

    “By coming to dwell with us, Jesus was to reveal God both to men and to angels. He was the Word of
    God,—God’s thought made audible. In His prayer for His disciples He says, “I have declared unto them Thy name,”—”merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,”— “that the love wherewith Thou hast loved Me may be in them, and I in them.” But not alone for His earthborn children was this revelation given. Our little world is the lesson book of the universe.”
    (“The Desire of Ages”, chapter 1 - “God With Us” Original text by E. G. White.

    The question arises; “If his name was to be Immanuel, why was he named Jesus? My answer is: People or things can be known by several names. According to the dictionary, a “name” means, “a word or a combination of words by which a person, place, or thing, a body or class, or any object of thought is designated, called, or known.” I could add all the other meanings, but I’ll urge you to look them up.

    In the case of Immanuel, Strong’s definition is: “God with us” or "with us is God", which is more correct.
    1. symbolic and prophetic name of the Messiah, the Christ, prophesying that He would be born of a virgin and would be ‘God with us’. ( Isa 7:14 ) Repeated in Matthew 1:23.

    Therefore, Jehovah himself will give you a sign: Look! The young woman* will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and she will name him Immanuel.” ( Isa 7:14 NWT )

    Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.” ( Isa 7:14 NASB )

    Look! The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will name him Immanuel,” which means, when translated, “With Us Is God.” ( Mt 1:23 NWT )

    http://classic.studylight.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=isa&chapter=007 (Notes 1 through 5 cover controversial use of the word `almah = al-maw.

    Strong’s Definition:
    1. virgin, young woman
    a.of marriageable age
    maid or newly married ++++
    There is no instance where it can be proved that this word designates a young woman who is not a virgin.

    With all the controversy about the word “virgin”, where is the argument about God becoming a man? Doesn’t it say “God with us”??? Would that not be taken literally? According to many churches, they believe Jesus is God. And, if that is the case, how could Satan offer “all the kingdoms of the world”?
    And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” (Lu 4:6-7 KJV )

    Who “delivered” it to the devil? If God became a “man”=Jesus, what prevented him=Satan from taking all control at that time? Doesn’t the bible say that Satan the devil is “ruler of the world”?

    After all, what’s in “a name”??
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    That is a good point...

    When someone says to us, "We don't know how to pronounce Gods name.", we can say, "But you pronounce his sons name as 'Jesus'?"

    We use God's name in our own language with the best translation we have, because we want to teach his name, and speak to him personally. Jehovah knew before the Word was written how we would pronounce it, and most likely at the moment of the first sin...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Hi Joshuastone,
    I like what you say. I’ve used several examples using different biblical names, but I find it to be more fun mispronouncing the name of the person I’m talking with. As like, instead of John, I say Ja-han. Sometimes I’ll deliberately not use their name when speaking to them to make my point. Or, I’ll use my best foreign language accent when speaking to them. Yes, they become angry. That's when I know I've got them. And I just smile.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Many people have questioned why there is evil, or sin, in the world. They usually say, “If God is Love, why does he allow evil to exist. If He created everything, then He must have also created evil”. How do we, as Christians, explain this subject in an understandable way?

    There are those who say that sin/evil is a “mystery”. It can’t be explained. “It is impossible to explain the origin of sin so as to give a reason for its existence.” (1)

    For me, it is not a mystery. Sin/Evil came about by free-will, jealousy, and desire. The Bible tells the story early on. ( Gen 3 ) Who was the serpent? “And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.” ( Rev 12:9 )

    This individual was also given a duty to watch over the creation on earth, especially over mankind. “You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God;” (Ezek 28:12b-13a ) “You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.” (Ezek 28:14)

    The story is told in this chapter of Ezekiel, where the corruption of self indulgence and pride influenced this person we now know as Satan the Devil. From other scriptures the story shows that all that was created was for the Son of God who worked beside his Father, whom all was to be given. Satan became jealous of his brother and wanted it for himself. Rather that getting his way, he was chastised and disciplined for his sin/evil deeds. The name Satan is not a noun. It is a verb, in Hebrew it has the meaning to slander, to be or act as an adversary, resist, oppose.

    From this point on, Satan, knowing he would never get the creation as his own possession, decided to destroy it all. And, Adam, because he listened to his wife and sinned against God, was given a death sentence along with his wife, and future offspring. Now, that seems rather harsh. Well, it wasn’t because he didn’t know! “The Lord God commanded the man, saying, ‘From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.’” ( Gen 2:16-17 NASB )

    The woman said to the serpent, ‘From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; 3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’”

    It would be obvious that Adam told Eve what God had told him about the fruit of the trees. He identified the tree and fruit which was forbidden. Why would Satan approach Eve, instead of Adam? Eve was the younger of the two. She had less experience in life, therefor being more easily influenced.
    The other part of the story shows that she didn’t immediately eat the fruit. She was tricked by Satan. Notice how the serpent asked the question: “And the serpent was cunning above every animal of the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said to the woman, Is it true that God has said, You shall not eat from any tree of the garden? ( Gen 3:1 LITV ) The word cunning has the meaning: skill employed in a shrewd or sly manner, as in deceiving; craftiness; guile. Satan misstated the command given to Adam and Eve. It was a ploy: a maneuver or stratagem, as in conversation, to gain the advantage.

    From this information it is also obvious where evil/sin came from. God did not create robots. He created individuals with free will, free choice. Unlike the other animals that were created, man had the ability to think and decide which to do. Animals were created with instincts. They were designed to perform certain functions, without thinking. Man was made in the “image” of God. The word “image” in Greek is eikon, the same as English, ikon/icon.
    We can also read many other scriptures that will explain who, what, when, where, and why evil/sin came into existence.

    (1) The Great Controversy - Past - Present - Future - How Will It End by E. G. White. 29 The Origin of Evil, pg 263


    I have noticed that there is more evil coming into the world of mankind, today. Some people are oblivious to it. All we have to do is read the newspapers, watch television news, movies, and pay attention to world governments. Another sneaky source is technology. (Facebook?) That is the one I am the most fearful of. It has been introduced into the minds through “apps”. They are sold to the slaves who are told they are a great convenience. They, (smart phone apps), will make your life more comfortable.

    How many would willingly throw their “smart phone” away? A recent study shows that some people check their “smart phone” every one and a half seconds, based on a twelve hour day. (500 times a day!)
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Greek philosophy has a heavy influence on false teachings that are believed among the majority of modern Christian sects. Most people are unaware of where these teachings come from. The following information is from the notes of the ‘2001 New Translation Bible’.

    Hades

    The Greek word Hades (they pronounced it hah-des) has been translated both as Hell (which is thought of as a place of torture) and as the Grave in other Bible versions (such as the King James). Since one word can’t mean two very different things, which translation is correct?

    Hades (like the English word Hell) actually means the place of the dead. However, as pagan Greek philosophy started to develop and creep into Christianity, the later-day Greek view of Hades (a place of torture) was applied to it. Was this a correct application?

    An insight into how the ancient Hebrews and the early Christians understood the word can be gained by looking at how it was applied in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Ancient Scriptures of Israel (the ‘Old Testament’ Bible of Jesus’ day). There, the Hebrew word Sheol is translated into Greek as Hades in every instance, yet in each case, these are obvious references to the grave (the place of the dead), not to a place of conscious torture (see Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10).

    Another revealing application of the word Hades is found at Revelation the 20:13. It says there, ‘The sea (gr. he thalassa) gave up its dead, death and the grave (gr. thanatos kai ho hades) gave up those dead in them, and they were all judged by the things they did.’

    Notice that those who die at sea are differentiated from those who are buried in graves (Hades) and in other places (thanatos). So Hades is better translated as grave.

    In the book of Job, another word that is used once in the Christian-era Scriptures and often translated as Hell, is found in two places. That Greek word is Tartarus, which refers to the place where evil gods or angels are sent.
    (2001 New Translation Bible Pg. 1417)

    Moses’ Question about the ‘Name’ of God

    An inaccurate translation of Exodus 3:13 leads to a faulty understanding of this verse. In numerous Bibles one can read the question: ‘What is his name?’ as in Judges 13:17, when Manoah wanted to know the name (that is, the pronunciation of the name) of the angel who came to meet him. On the other hand, the Israelites asked Moses: ‘How is his name?’ – that is, ‘what does His name mean?’ or ‘what does His fame mean?’

    One can verify that in Hebrew the interrogation ‘what is,’ or ‘how is,’ is ‘mâ,’ and ‘who is,’ is ‘mî.’ Thus, there’s a big difference between asking to know a name because one is in ignorance of it (as in Ezra 5:4) and asking the meaning of a name, which one already knows, as in Genesis 32:27 where the angel asks Jacob to remind him of the meaning (He will supplant) of his name, which meaning was already known to him (Genesis 27:36), in order to give him a new one (He will contend – Genesis 32:28).

    Thus, when Moses asked God: ‘How is his name?’ God gave the explanation ‘I shall [prove to] be who (or what) I shall [prove to] be’ (èhyèh ashèr èhyèh). Even here, regrettably, numerous translators are influenced by Greek philosophy on The Being as existing that was developed by Plato in some of his works, including ‘Parmenides.’ For example, the Septuagint translated this passage as ‘I am the Being (égô éimi o ôn in Greek), or, ‘I am He who is.’ Yet Aquila’s Translation (which is more faithful to Hebrew) translates this sentence as, I shall be: I shall be (ésomai ésomai in Greek).

    As you can see from a study on the translation of this sentence, the difficulty results from translators who want to explain this translation by means of their personal beliefs, which are very often influenced by Greek philosophy; otherwise there is no difficulty. For example, one finds the word èhyèh just before Exodus 3:12 and just after Exodus 4:12, 15, and here translators have no problem translating it as ‘I shall [prove to be] with you.’ Moreover, the Talmud retains this explanation for the meaning of the Name.

    A better translation of Exodus 3:13, 14 would then be: ‘Then Moses said to God, Look, I’ll go to the children of Israel and tell them the God of our ancestors has sent me to you, but they’re going to ask, How is his name? What should I tell them?’ And God told Moses, ‘I shall [prove to] be what I shall [prove to] be! Just tell the children of Israel that I shall [prove to] be has sent you.’
    (2001 New Translation Bible Pg. 1446)

    Nicolaitans

    The infiltration of this sect into two of the seven congregations that Jesus addressed in the Second and Third Chapters of Revelation has raised the question of what they were teaching that he found so offensive. This is important, since the description of these congregations seems to be mirrored among modern Christianity.

    An Early Christian elder, Iranaeus, identified the Nicolaitans in his treatise ‘Against Heresies,’ in the Second Century. He said of them that they are an ‘offshoot of the knowledge which is falsely so-called,’ and he explained that they ‘lead lives of unrestrained indulgence.’

    This description seems to mirror what Paul warned Timothy of at 1 Timothy 6:20, 21, when he wrote, ‘O Timothy, guard this hope and turn away from all the unclean and opposing empty talk that is falsely called knowledge, through which some who once showed promise in the faith were turned aside.’

    So, this corrupting influence seems to have taken root in congregations as early as the middle of the First Century, for Iranaeus seems to have been quoting Paul.

    What is this falsely called knowledge that was (and still is) a corrupting influence on Christians? Apparently, it is acceptance of a philosophy that people may be Christians and still do whatever they wish. However, others have looked at the name Nicolaitans, and suggested that its Greek meaning, (nicao) to conquer (laos) the people, refers to the earliest form of a priestly order or clergy.
    (2001 New Translation Bible Pg. 1448)
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Might Makes Right

    “Listen, then,” says the angry Sophist, “I proclaim that might is right, and justice is the interest of the stronger... The different forms of government make laws, democratic, aristocratic, or autocratic, with a view to their respective interests; and these laws, so made by them to serve their interests, they deliver to their subjects as ‘justice,’ and punish as ‘unjust’ anyone who transgresses them... I am speaking of injustice on a large scale; and my meaning will be most clearly seen in autocracy, which by fraud and force takes away the property of others, not retail but wholesale. Now when a man has taken away the money of the citizens and made slaves of them, then, instead of swindler and thief he is called happy and blessed by all. For injustice is censured because those who censure it are afraid of suffering, and not from any scruple they might have of doing injustice themselves” (338-44).

    Durant, Will (2014-02-06). The Story of Philosophy (p. 18).

    Why No Paradise?

    Plato asks: Why is it that such a simple paradise as he has described never comes?— why is it that these Utopias never arrive upon the map? He answers, because of greed and luxury. Men are not content with a simple life: they are acquisitive, ambitious, competitive, and jealous; they soon tire of what they have, and pine for what they have not; and they seldom desire anything unless it belongs to others. The result is the encroachment of one group upon the territory of another, the rivalry of groups for the resources of the soil, and then war. Trade and finance develop, and bring new class-divisions. “Any ordinary city is in fact two cities, one the city of the poor, the other of the rich, each at war with the other; and in either division there are smaller ones— you would make a great mistake if you treated them as single states” [We call them neighborhoods]. A mercantile bourgeoisie arises, whose members seek social position through wealth and conspicuous consumption: “they will spend large sums of money on their wives”. These changes in the distribution of wealth produce political changes: as the wealth of the merchant over-reaches that of the land-owner, aristocracy gives way to a plutocratic oligarchy— wealthy traders and bankers rule the state. Then statesmanship, which is the coordination of social forces and the adjustment of policy to growth, is replaced by politics, which is the strategy of party and the lust for the spoils of office. [Plato 428-427BCE to 348-347BCE]

    Durant, Will (2014-02-06). The Story of Philosophy (pp. 19-20).

    What is this thing that [just] happened? The same thing will happen again! What is this thing being done? The same will be done in the future, for there’s nothing that’s new under the sun. Who can speak out and say,‘Look!Here is something that’s new!‘For the same thing has happened for ages,to those who have lived before us. The first things that were done are forgotten, and things being done will not be remembered, by those who are born in the end” (Ecc 1:9-11 2001 New Translation Bible)

    That which has come to be, that is what will come to be; and that which has been done, that is what will be done; and so there is nothing new under the sun. Does anything exist of which one may say: ‘See this; it is new’? It has already had existence for time indefinite; what has come into existence is from time prior to us. There is no remembrance of people of former times, nor will there be of those also who will come to be later. There will prove to be no remembrance even of them among those who will come to be still later on.” (Ecc 1:9-11 NWT)
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I had a situation the other day, where I immediately said to myself, “Self! I hate people! I absolutely hate people!!!” A person in the car in front of me threw a plastic drink bottle out of the window as they drove down the street. It reminded me of all of the thousands of tons of plastic that is polluting our oceans. Some of it is being eaten by the aquatic animals who are dying because of it. People are PIGS!
    That’s why Jehovah forbid the Israelites to eat Pork! Ha Ha Ha!!

    Then, this scripture came to mind. “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy; but I say to you, Love your enemies; bless those cursing you, do well to those hating you; and pray for those abusing and persecuting you, so that you may become sons of your Father in Heaven. Because He causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and unjust.” ( Mt 5:43-45 LITV )

    I thought that the statement was contradictory. I found that the scripture as quoted, was not written that way. How could Jesus actually misquote the original scripture!! The answer is: Because he was only quoting the last part of the scripture from Lev 19:18. The part about hating your enemy was not a part of that scripture. Read it more carefully, because he added the thought of hating your enemy from “what was an addition to God’s word added by the scribes and Pharisees. Thus, the people of Jesus’ day had fallen into the old and vicious habit of linking a sublime truth with a ridiculous error, thus ‘yoking the ox with the ass,’ to use an Old Testament figure of speech.” ( Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament )

    You shall not hate your brother in your heart; you shall certainly reprove your neighbor, and not allow sin on him. You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people; but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am Jehovah.” ( Lev 19:17-18 LITV )

    The Greek and Hebrew writings did not have punctuation marks such as comma’s, quotations, periods, etc. They also lacked capitalization of beginning sentences. So, . . Jesus said, “You have heard that it was said,” He did not say, “It is written”. Even though I can’t hate them, I don’t have to like their actions, or them! They don’t have to be my friend. Oh Yes, “Do not be led astray; bad companionships ruin good habits.” ( 1 Co 15:33 LITV ) :)
     
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    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    While researching some biblical information, I came across this portion about the Israelites. This is interesting information to know about the history, nation, customs, and recorded events.

    (Ancient History - Revised Edition: By George Rawlinson, M.A. Camden Professor Of Ancient History At University Of Oxford, 1900, PP 41-43)

    JUDÆA

    The history of the Jews and Israelites is known to us in completer sequence and in greater detail than that of any other people of equal antiquity, from the circumstance that there has been preserved to our day so large a portion of their literature.

    The Jews became familiar with writing during their sojourn in Egypt, if not even earlier; and kept records of the chief events in their national life from that time almost uninterruptedly. From the sacred character which attached to many of their historical books, peculiar care was taken of them; and the result is that they have come down to us nearly in their original form. Besides this, a large body of their ancient poesy is still extant, and thus it becomes possible to describe at length not merely the events of their civil history, but their manners, customs, and modes of thought.

    The history of the Jewish state commences with the Exodus, which is variously dated, at B.C. 1652 (Poole), B.C. 1491 (Ussher), or B.C. 1320 (Bunsen, Lepsius). The long chronology is, on the whole, to be preferred. We may conveniently divide the history into three periods.

    Periods B.C.
    I. From the Exodus to the establishment of the monarchy . . . 1650-1095
    II. From the establishment of the monarchy to the separation
    into two kingdoms. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1095-975
    III From the separation of the kingdoms to the captivity
    under Nebuchadnezzar. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 975-586

    During the First Period the Jews regarded themselves as under a theocracy; or, in other words, the policy of the nation was directed in all difficult crises by a reference to the Divine will, which there was a recognized mode of consulting. The earthly ruler, or rather leader, of the nation did not aspire to the name or position of king, but was content to lead the nation in war and judge it in peace from a position but a little elevated above that of the mass of the people. He obtained his office neither by hereditary descent nor by election, but was supernaturally designated to it by revelation to himself or to another, and exercised it with the general consent, having no means of compelling obedience. When once his authority was acknowledged, he retained it during the remainder of his life; but it did not always extend over the whole nation. When he died, he was not always succeeded immediately by another similar ruler: on the contrary, there was often a considerable interval during which the nation had either no head, or acknowledged subjection to a foreign conqueror. When there was no head, the hereditary chiefs of tribes and families seem to have exercised jurisdiction and authority over the different districts.

    The chronology of this period is exceedingly uncertain, as is evident from the different dates assigned above to the Exodus. The Jews had different traditions upon the subject ; and the chronological notices in their sacred books were neither complete, nor, apparently, intended for exact statements.
    The numbers, therefore, in the subjoined sketch must be regarded as merely approximate.

     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    There is no account where Jesus drank wine. He was a Nazirite, dedicated to Jehovah God from birth. Three major commands for a Nazirite: 1. No razor to cut the hair on the head, 2. No touching or being near a dead body, and 3. No drinking of wine, or eating any form of grapes. ( Num 6:1-21 )

    Where Jesus was called a “winebibber”/Drunkard by the unbelievers, he was accused of this, which was not true. ( Mt 11:19 KJV ) In the accounts of the “Last Supper”, “Passover” meal, it says: “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.’” ( Mt 26:27-29 KJV )

    Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” ( Mt 26:27-29 NIV )

    Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink from it, all of you. For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.’” ( Mt 26:27-29 NKJV )

    And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink from it, all of you; for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.’” ( Mt 26:27-29 NASB )

    You will notice that it does not say that he drank from the cup before handing it to the disciples. He only blessed the cup. You will find the same recorded in the other two accounts. Mark 14:23-25, Luke 22:17-18. In Luke’s account you will see that it places the drinking of the wine before eating the bread, where the other two accounts place the eating of the bread, first.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I will have to take a differing view brother.

    Jesus was not a Nazirite; He was a “Nazarene,” simply a native of the town of Nazareth.

    Luk 18:37 "They reported to him: “Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ is passing by!”

    There are several other Scriptures that indicate that in fact our Lord did drink wine.

    Luk 7:33,34 "Likewise, John the Baptist has come neither eating bread nor drinking wine, but you say: ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of man has come eating and drinking, but you say: ‘Look! A man who is a glutton and is given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!"

    Jesus here is contrasting John the Baptist not drinking wine, to his doing so. The religious leaders even accused him of being a drunkard, (even though he led a sinless life), further demonstrating the point.

    And finally, Jesus own words indicate that he in fact did drink wine as indicated below.

    Luk 22:18 "for I tell you, from now on, I will not drink again from the product of the vine until the Kingdom of God comes.”
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Well brother, it can be read and understood that he did not drink wine and he indicates that it will be in the Kingdom of God where he “will drink wine”. His dedication as a nazirite will be accomplished and he will be able to drink wine freely. Of course, that is, if spirit creatures enjoy drinking wine.

    Here is how it is stated in Greek, “for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now until the kingdom of God comes.” (Lu 22:18 NASB ) It can be understood that it would be from that time, until the Kingdom is established, that he would be able to share in drinking wine as a celebration. He was a nazirite until his death. Yes, he was also from his home town of Nazareth = “the guarded one”. So, he was also known as a Nazarene. If I lived in Los Angeles, forbid the thought, I could be called a “Angeleno”. Or, from Paris; a Parisian.

    On a side note: "Hoo-rah" for you video. I loved it. And, I noticed in one of your other videos, two guitars on the back wall. Being me, I was a bit distracted trying to identify the "maker".:) And, are you a "pro"?:cool:
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    His statement to me indicates a completion of previous intake, meaning "anew", otherwise one wouldn't mention an event in the future that wasn't once experienced.

    Thank you brother for your support, we must follow the guidance of Jehovah's Spirit within us...

    The floral one is an Ibanez 77FP, and the white one is a Ibanez 7V.

    I don't make any money through my playing, but it's simply for my own enjoyment...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I was looking for a specific Hebrew word for the English word “fear”, in the Bible. Well . . ., I found there are 26 different words that can be translated as “fear”, which is a verb. That led me to find that there are seven major verb stems in the Hebrew. Three of those verb stems are usually found in most translated words in the Bible. I found this site which is very useful for “short attention span people”, like me. https://uhg.readthedocs.io/en/latest/stem.html

    Stem Formation

    The stem formation of a verb indicates both the kind of verbal action (simple, stative, causative, etc.) and the voice (active, passive, reflexive, etc.) of the verb.

    (Qal) to be in dread (The Qal stem is the stem formation that is the simplest of form in Biblical Hebrew. The Qal stem is generally used to express either simple action or stative action.)

    In Biblical Hebrew, the Qal stem is the simplest of all the verbal stem formations in both form and function. All the other stem formations are derived from the Qal form. It is by far the most common form of a verb, and it almost always expresses either simple action in active voice (for dynamic verbs) or stative action in passive voice (for stative verbs, which do not have active voice). In English, stative verbs require the helping verb “to be” for proper translation value (see example). In Biblical Hebrew, the stative nature of the verb is indicated by the verb itself without requiring any additional helping verbs.

    (Piel) to be in great dread (The Piel form is a verbal stem formation in Biblical Hebrew, usually indicated by a daghesh in the 2nd radical of the verb. The Piel stem is the most flexible in its use of all the various stem formations; it can express simple action, intensive action, resultative action, causative action, or other kinds of action (all in active voice) depending on the context and the specific verb. Some verbs express simple action in the Piel stem; some verbs express intensive action in the Piel stem; for some verbs, the Piel stem might express either simple action or intensive action, depending on the context; and so on.)

    (Hiphil) to cause to dread (one of the seven major verb stems), usually denotes the incomplete passive or the reflexive voice. The Piel form is a verbal stem formation in Biblical Hebrew, usually indicated by a daghesh in the 2nd radical of the verb. The Piel stem is the most flexible in its use of all the various stem formations; it can express simple action, intensive action, resultative action, causative action, or other kinds of action (all in active voice) depending on the context and the specific verb. Some verbs express simple action in the Piel stem; some verbs express intensive action in the Piel stem; for some verbs, the Piel stem might express either simple action or intensive action, depending on the context; and so on.

    NOTE: It is recommended to always check a dictionary or lexicon for the meaning of a specific verb, because this stem may express many different kinds of action in different contexts.
     
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    Cristo

    Cristo Member

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    Here is the perfect opportunity for you. Next time this happens simply ask them if Jesus wasn't Gods first creation, then WHO WAS? Obviously they won't have an answer because we already know Jesus was. Then show them Col 1:18 (Col 1:18) “. . .and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things;”

    If somebody else besides Jesus was the first creation, which must be the case if Jesus is eternal, then that means that Jesus is NOT first in all things.

    Wonder what they would have said....
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    In the Bible, certain words are used in a figurative meaning. One word that has several meanings is “mountain”. We will address the figurative meaning as explained in “The Popular and Critical Bible Encyclopaedia and Scriptural Dictionary, V-2 , 1910 edited by Rt. Rev.. Samuel Fallows, A.M. D.D. LL.D. [Chicago The Howard-Severance Company], pg 1192

    Figurative. In Scripture the governing part of the body politic appears under symbols of different kinds. If the allegory or figurative representation is taken from the heavens, the luminaries denote the governing body; if from an animal, the head or horns; if from the earth, a mountain or fortress; and in this case the capital city or residence of the governor is taken for the supreme power. These
    mutually illustrate each other. For a capital city is the head of the political body; the head of an ox is the fortress of the animal; mountains are the natural fortresses of the earth; and therefore a fortress or capital city, though seated in a plain may be called a mountain. Thus the words head, mountain, hill, city, horn, and king are used in a manner as synonymous terms to signify a kingdom, monarchy, or republic, united under one government, with only this difference, that it is to be understood in different respects; for the term head represents it in respect of the capital city; mountain or hill in respect to the strength of the metropolis which gives law to, or is above, and commands, the adjacent territory. When David says, “Lord, by thy favor thou hast made my mountain to stand strong” (Ps. 30:7 ), he means to express the stability of his kingdom.

    The detailed symbolical allusions are herewith given: “Mountains” and “hills” are used to represent:
    (1) The people that dwell in mountainous and hill country (Ezek 6:2-3).
    (2) The temple which is built on the top of a hill. (Isa 30:29; Jer 17:3, 26).
    (3) The church of God, typified by Mount Zion, and which is firmly settled, conspicuous, and useful in the world (Ps 2:6; Isa 2:2); and which, as a great “mountain”, shall fill the whole earth, when all nations shall be gathered to Christ (Dan 2:35, 45).
    (4) The ordinances of Christ, which elevate his people heavenward, and afford them much rich and medicinal provision for their soul.
    (5) Men high in station, power and authority, as magistrates in the state, and apostles and ministers in the church (Ps 72:3; Isa 44:23; 55:12).
    (6) Powerful hindrances and provocations, and enemies of gospel influence, and of the people of Christ (Isa 40:4; 41:15; 49:11)
    (7) The places where idols were worshiped, which were often on hills and high places (Ezek 18:6, 11)
    (8) Idols worshiped in these places, or anything we trust in instead of God (Jer 3:23)
    (9) The heavens, which are higher than mountains (Ps 121:1)
    (10) God, who is likened to the “mountains round about Jerusalem”, as he is the sure defense and protector of his people, and the source of all their consolation (Ps 125:2)
    (11) Samaria is called a “mountain” because built on a hill (Amos 4:1; 6:1)
    (12) Babylon, or the Chaldean monarchy, is also called a “mountain” because of its lofty building and great power: “a destroying mountain”, because it overwhelmed and destroyed the nations around; and a “burning mountain”, because at last burnt with fire, and the debris looked like a burnt “mountain” (Jer 51:25; Isa 13:1-2)

    With this understanding we can also look to the Greek scriptures to find where the figurative “mountain”, or the literal “mountain” is used.
    Compare (Lu 3:5; 23:30, and Rev 14-16)

    The following are from Easton's Bible Dictionary. The word listed below, by Easton, as paranomasias is a misspelling of the Biblical Greek paranomia, meaning “to act contrary to the law, to break the law. It is a compound of para = from, of at, by, besides, near; and nomos = anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command.

    Quotations from Hosea are found in Matthew 2:15; 9:15; 12:7; Romans 9:25,26. There are, in addition, various allusions to it in other places (Luke 23:30; Revelation 6:16, Compare Hosea 10:8; Romans 9:25,26; 1 Peter 2:10, Compare Hosea 1:10, etc.).

    As regards the style of this writer [Hosea], it has been said that “each verse forms a whole for itself, like one heavy toll in a funeral knell.” “Inversions (7:8; 9:11,13; 12:8), anacolutha (9:6; 12:8, etc.), ellipses (9:4; 13:9, etc.), paranomasias, and plays upon words, are very characteristic of (Hosea 8:7; 9:15; 10:5; 11:5; 12:11).”
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Listening to Your Inner Voice
    Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, ‘This is the way; walk in it.”’
    ( Isa 30:21 NIV )

    And your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, This is the way, walk in it, when you go right, or when you go left.” ( Isa 30:21 LITV )

    And your own ears will hear a word behind you saying, ‘This is the way. Walk in it,’ in case you should go to the right or in case you should go to the left.” ( Isa 30:21 NWT )

    Some say this is “Spiritual Intuition”. It’s that inner voice, the part of you God speaks to. Something inside you that urges you to do something. Sometimes you don’t react to it and go about your daily business. It speaks to you again. What should you do? If that inner voice is in alignment with God’s word, do it. Learn to trust that spiritual intuition, because it will tell you: ( a ) what you need to do; ( b ) when you need to act; ( c ) what direction to take; ( d ) what changes you need to make.

    On Not Loving the World
    Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.” ( 1 John 2:15-17 NASB )

    In these times it seems that the world is going crazy. It’s happening all over the earth. No matter which country, the love of the world is there. Why is that? “Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” ( 1 John 2:18-19 NIV )

    The world belongs to Satan: “And he led Him [Jesus] up and showed Him all the kingdoms [governments] of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. Therefore if You worship before me, it shall all be Yours.” ( Luke 4”5-7 NASB )

    Most people don’t understand the difference between the words earth and world, as used in the Bible. The word world in Greek, is kosmos. In English it is cosmos. Most people think of cosmos as being outer space, the universe. It actually means: a system. The word earth in Greek, is ge, pronounced ghay. Or, for most people it is pronounced gee, as in geology.

    What Satan was offering Jesus was the whole political system of the “world”.

    Aside:
    http://e-jw.org/index.php?threads/are-you-willingly-sharing-secrets.511/#post-5639

     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    The following information is from 2 required text books for a course in Theology at William Jessup University.
    The Program Overview states: The Bachelor of Arts in Theology provides students with a strong biblical and theological foundation for knowing God and making Him known in this world. The degree introduces students to historical, comparative, contemporary, and practical theologies, emphasizing both the historical unity and global diversity of the Church. Students also learn to biblically evaluate, creatively articulate, and practically apply doctrine, in order to faithfully participate in God’s drama of redemption.

    Statement of Faith (William Jessup University. )
    We believe in one God, the maker of heaven and earth: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as revealed in the Holy Bible and made known in Jesus Christ our Lord;

    We believe that Jesus the divine Son became human, was born of a virgin, ministered in word and miracle, died for our sin, was raised bodily from the dead, ascended to God’s right hand and is coming again for His people;

    We believe that the Holy Spirit is presently ministering through the Christian community, empowering lives of godliness and service;

    We believe that the Holy Bible is completely God breathed, true in all its teaching, and the final authority for all matters of faith and practice;

    We believe that Jesus Christ established His church on earth to carry out His saving mission among all ethnic groups and formed her to be one holy people;

    We believe in God’s saving grace that calls forth from all people: faith, repentance, confession, baptism, and new life and ministry through the Spirit; and

    We commit ourselves to the teachings, practice and defense of these truths until the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Statements from the 2 required text books.
    Jesus uses the egō eimi formula in three different ways in the Fourth Gospel:
    (1) With a predicate: ‘I am the bread of life’ (6:35, 41, 48, 51), ‘I am the light of the world’ (8:12), ‘I am the gate for the sheep’ (10:7, 9)’ ‘I am the good shepherd’ (10:11, 14), ‘I am the resurrection and the life’ (11:25), ‘I am the way and the truth and the life’ (14:6), and ‘I am the true vine’ (15:1, 5).
    (2) With an implied predicate. ‘I am [he]’, ‘I am [the one]’ indicating he is the Messiah (4:26; 8:24, 28; 13:19), and ‘It is and ‘I am [he]’ simply to identify himself (6:20; 18:8, and possibly 18:5, 6, 8), as did the man born blind (9:9).
    (3) As an absolute, possibly in 8:24, 28; 18:5-6, and certainly in 8:58: ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ The last of these uses needs further comment, for in this case egō eimi represents the divine name. In Exodus 3:14 God says to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM’. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: “I AM has sent me to you.’” The ‘I AM WHO I AM’ is translated as egō eimi ho ōn in the LXX. In Isaiah 43:25; 51:12 egō eimi on its own functions as the divine name. Thus when Jesus said to ‘the Jews’, ‘before Abraham was born, I am’, he was identifying himself with God. He was not only pronouncing the name of God, which Jews normally did not dare to utter, but, even worse, he was claiming to be God.
    (JOHN - Colin G. Kruse, pp 139-140 )

    The first half of John’s narrative portrays Jesus as Messiah by selecting seven representative signs (1:19-12:50, cf. 20”30-31). John also marshals Jesus’s seven “I am” sayings (6:35-59; 8:12 = 9:5; 10:7, 9, 11; 11:25; 14:6; 15:1)
    (Encountering John: The Gospel In Historical, Literary, and Theological Perspective by Andreas J. Kostenberger; p17)

    My commentary on “I am”.
    The main factor in these 2 books on John is an attempt to show “Jesus is God”. There is emphasis placed on the words “I Am”, in connection with God’s answer to Moses at Exodus 3:14. Before we get to verse 14, there is another person involved; “And the Angel of Jehovah appeared to him in a flame of fire from the middle of a thorn bush. And he looked, and behold, the thorn bush was burning with fire, and the thorn bush was not burned up!” Who is this Angel? In verse 4 it says; “And Jehovah saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him from the midst of the thorn bush, and said, Moses! Moses!” ( Ex 3:4 LITV ) So, who is speaking here? Is it the Angel of Jehovah, or is it Jehovah God? Tough one eh?

    According to these scriptures, those who believe in the Trinity believe that it is Jesus Christ. John says that Jesus is the Word, correct? ( John 1:1-5 ) So, it must be Jesus as the Word of God that is speaking. Therefor, according to Exodus verse 3:4, it says that Jehovah spoke to Moses. That would mean that Jesus is Jehovah! Right? That would make Jesus the “I AM”! Correct? The answer is, NO!

    First of all, “I AM WHO I AM” is NOT GODS NAME”! That was the response to Moses’ question from verse 3:13, when he asked what he should say to the “sons of Israel”. It is in verse 3:15 where God tells Moses what his name is. “And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial from generation to generation.”

    The statement “I AM”, or I am; whether with a predicate, implied predicate, or absolute, it is an answer to a question of WHO! It reminds me of a song by a rock group names The Who. It’s Who Are You! If I were asked that question, I would give the same answer that Jehovah gave to Moses. “I am who I am.” In other words: I will chose to be whoever I wish to be, at the time. At the time I may chose to be a singer, a baseball player, a liar, a truth seeker, etc. And; to really find out WHO I AM is to spend time with me.

    Also, Jehovah GOD, will be whatever HE needs to be at the time. A savior, helper, destroyer, creator, protector, etc. And, “I AM WHO I AM” in Hebrew is hayah 'aher hayah. I AM=hayah WHO=asher I AM=hayah. As a matter of fact, Moses said “Here I am”, or “Here am I” ( Ex 3:4 KJV )

    Y@hovah (yeh-ho-vaw') Jehovah = “the existing One”
    1. the proper name of the one true God
    a. unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136 (‘adonay)

    According to Coffman Commentaries: “Since the great memorial name forever is in Exo. 3:15, what should we make of Exo. 3:13? Whatever we make of it, there is not any new name in it. If that verse has the great memorial name, then nobody knows what it is for the last 2,000 years! Here are examples of the way the passage has been translated:

    “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say ... I AM hath sent me unto you.” (ASV)

    “I WILL BE WHO (OR WHAT) I WILL BE.” (Fields)
    “I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE.” (Tyndale Bible)
    “I AM WHO AM.” (the Douay Version)
    “I AM THE BEING.” (the Septuagint (LXX))
    “I AM BECAUSE I AM.” (ASV's margin)
    “I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE.” (Moffatt)
    “I AM WHO I AM.” (RSV)
    (Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament)

    As far as Jesus using the statementI amegō eimi, so did the blind man that Jesus had healed. ( John 9:9 ) As a matter of fact, the term is used hundreds of times throughout the Bible by many different people. Don’t take my word for it! Check it out!
     

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