Apologetics - Defending our Faith

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Tsaphah, Jul 18, 2016.

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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    This is a follow-up of the previous post.

    Today; not this particular day, but referring to this “time period” (11:29:2018). What is important to understanding the Holy Bible? You can read it, but yet not understand the meaning of what is written. The missing link is the spoken words. What is missing, among other things, is inflection. What do I mean by that? Inflection: to change or vary the pitch of the voice.

    There is also the transitive and intransitive verbs used when speaking, along with emphasis.

    What is the difference between a transitive verb and an intransitive verb?
    A transitive verb is a verb that requires a direct object, which is a noun, pronoun, or noun phrase that follows the verb and completes the sentence's meaning by indicating the person or thing that receives the action of the verb. The direct object typically answers the question what? or whom?:

    The kids like pickles.

    That really annoys me.

    Have they sold their house yet?

    An intransitive verb is not used with a direct object. If something comes after an intransitive verb, that is, in the position usually inhabited by the direct object, it doesn't answer what? or whom?; instead it answers a question like where?, when?, how?, or how long?:

    Her car died suddenly last week. Example: Did her car really die, like an animal or human? No! It simply quit functioning.

    Someone was coughing loudly. In this case, it is past tense from "was".

    A single verb can have both transitive and intransitive uses:

    They are playing soccer.

    They’ve been playing all afternoon.

    A transitive verb can also have an indirect object, which is a noun, pronoun, or noun phrase that comes before a direct object and indicates the person or thing that receives what is being given or done. Many common verbs can be used with both direct and indirect objects. In the following examples the indirect object is in italics:

    Find her a chair.

    Can you read me the letter?

    Who gave her lawyers the information?

    He's saving Caitlin a piece.

    Definition of emphasis

    1 a : force or intensity of expression that gives impressiveness or importance to something

    b : a particular prominence given in reading or speaking to one or more words or syllables

    2 : special consideration of or stress or insistence on something

    "Call me a Cab!" "OK, you are a Cab!"

    (From Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intransitive

    Here is another website that will help in understanding the Stem Formation in the Hebrew language, and common Hebrew Grammar.
    https://uhg.readthedocs.io/en/latest/stem.html


    .
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    This is for those who use the scripture in John to show that Jesus is God, as in the Trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit/Ghost.

    I and my Father are one.” ( John 10:30 KJV )
    I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30 NIV )
    I and the Father are [a] one.( John 10:30 NASB )
    [a] Or a unity; or one essence. (essence = the basic, real, and invariable nature of a thing or its significant individual feature or features.
    Example: Freedom is the very essence of our democracy.

    The footnote for the NASB says that the meaning here has the essence of being in unity of thought, actions, or same thinking. But, where is the “third part” to make a trinity”? Notice; Jesus did not mention the “spirit” or “ghost”. Why is that? Because the spirit or ghost is not a person, but a force to accomplish a plan. It is also referred to as the “breath of life”.

    His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” ( Psa 146:4 KJV )
    It can also refer to the electrical force within the human body.

    In Hebrew the word is ruwach ( roo'-akh )
    http://classic.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=07307

    In Greek the word is pneuma ( pnyoo'-mah ) pa-nu-ma.:D
    http://classic.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4151

    In both cases of Hebrew or Greek, you can't say the words without the breath going out as you pronounce the words.

    According to the Greek description by Strong; “the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son.” If this were a true understanding of “a person”, then that person had sex with Elizabeth (John the Baptist’s mother), and Mary (The mother of Jesus), six months later. In the case of Elizabeth, that would go against God’s law against adultery. Elizabeth was the wife of the priest named Zacharias. She became pregnant by holy spirit. And also he son John was “filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.” ( Luke 1:5-15 KJV )
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I’m not sure how many here are familiar with Chuck Missler. He is the founder of Konionia House. Chuck died May 1, 2018.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Missler

    I have found Chuck Missler’s information on the Bible and other subjects quite interesting. The following session is very interesting. He points out the flaw in translation of the word nephiyl (nef-eel’), from the root word naphal (naw-fal’) = to fall (of a violent death).

    While the Hebrew scriptures were being translated to Greek, this word was mistranslated as “giants”, instead of “to make to fall in death. The correct translation should be nphiyl = or nphil {nef-eel'}; from 'naphal' (5307); properly, a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant. From naphal (naw-fal’) a primitive root; to fall, in a great variety of applications (intransitive or causative, literal or figurative):--be accepted, cast (down, self, (lots), out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell(-ing), fugitive, have (inheritance), inferior, be judged (by mistake for 'palal' (6419)), lay (along), (cause to) lie down, light (down), be (X hast) lost, lying, overthrow, overwhelm, perish, present(-ed, -ing), (make to) rot, slay, smite out, X surely, throw down.

    I had learned this translation error a long time ago. Most people I shared this information with did not accept it. After all, the scholars did not accept this idea. How can all of them be wrong and YOU be right? Well, Chuck also agrees that the translation is incorrect.

    Chuck Missler Genesis Session 11 Ch 6 (The Days Of Noah)


     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    There are many scriptures that can be used to challenge the “idea” of a “Trinity”, or that GOD is three parts as in, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

    My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:” ( 1 Joh 2:1 KJV ) If Jesus Christ is GOD, why is it necessary for him to speak to himself as an advocate for man, Son to Father?

    If Jesus is GOD, was he talking to himself? ( Mt 27:46 )
    If Jesus is GOD, what prevented Satan from taking over all creation while Jesus was dead? ( Mt 27:50, 57-60 )

    If Jesus is GOD, how could Satan offer to give him all the kingdoms of the world if HE already owned everything created? ( Lu 4:5-7 ) Was Satan asking GOD to worship him? ( Lu 4:7 ) And, If Jesus is GOD, why did he tell Satan “for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.” ( Lu 4:8 ) Did Satan not know who GOD was? Is Satan asking God to worship him; although God created him? It makes no sense at all!

    The first defense of the doctrine of the Trinity was in the early 3rd century by the early church father Tertullian. He explicitly defined the Trinity as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and defended his theology against “Praxeas”, though he noted that the majority of the believers in his day found issue with his doctrine. (Just one source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity )

    Another source: About Tertullian:
    http://www.tertullian.org/readfirst

    http://www.tertullian.org/works.htm

     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Well . . . . today being what it is, here is some his-story :eek:
    December 28, 1930, on Page XX11 of the New York edition with the headline: THE CHRISTMAS STORY: AN ANCIENT RECORD IN ANGORA (now known as Ankara)

    THE CHRISTMAS STORY: AN ANCIENT RECORD IN ANGORA; Census of Emperor Augustus Mentioned by Luke in His Gospel Is Confirmed by the Inscription on a Temple. ( Lu 2:1-3 NASB ) From the story in the newspaper of 1930.

    LUKE knew his facts when he wrote the first Christmas story. The Emperor Augustus, who at the time ruled the world and was cited by Luke as a character in his record, himself says so. Not often in history has a constantly challenged and heavily attacked author got such dramatic vindication from so eminent an authority.

    While looking for historical information about the birth of Jesus, I found reference to the New York Times newspaper. The original comment dated the paper as 1929. What I learned was that the given dates were fluid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_Domini
    From Augustus . . . : “This is the title given by the Roman Senate on January 17, 27 B.C., to Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus (63 B.C.-14 A.D.)” (Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1961, Vol. 2, p. 686.)

    All the world should be enrolled . . .” Lu 2:1b. “Critical allegations denying that such enrollments were made have been proved false. As Barclay said.
    “Such censuses were taken every fourteen years; and from 20 A.D. to 270 A.D., we possess actual documents from every census taken ... Here is an instance where further knowledge has shown the accuracy of the New Testament.” (Coffman Commentaries)

    This was the first enrollment made when Quirinius was governor of Syria.” (Lu 2:2 )

    The second census under Quirinius was in 6 A.D. (Acts 5:37); and the words "the first" in this passage refer to the census fourteen years earlier in 8 B.C., but which was delayed in Palestine until the time coinciding with the birth of Christ in 6 B.C. Quirinius was twice governor and presided over both. Robertson said: Luke is now shown to be wholly correct in his statement that Quirinius was twice governor, and that the first census took place during the first period. A series of inscriptions in Asia Minor show that Quirinius was governor of Syria in 10-7 B.C., and again in 6 A.D.

    Regarding some of the inscriptions mentioned by Robertson, these included those which were found in the autobiography of Augustus Caesar inscribed on the inner walls of the ruined temple of Augustus at Ankara. These were published in the New York Times in 1929; and these refer to the two censuses, even giving the numbers of those enrolled and naming Quirinius in both as governor of Syria. Luke is therefore quite accurate in his record. (Coffman Commentaries)

    If you try to use these dates, you will find it impossible to arrive at a date which can back the recorded scriptures. As a matter of fact, it raises more confusion. “When He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age,” (Lu 3:23a) Do the math . . . Minus 30 = 0, there is no year 0. It would be 1 B.C., which is not one of the census years.

    The question is: Does it matter? The answer could be, Yes, if you are concerned about time and the calculated “Times”. We must also consider that; time is relative. o_O :)
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    “Praise the LORD, my soul; all my inmost being, praise his holy name. Praise the LORD, my soul, and forget not all his benefits—” ( Psalm 103:1-2 NIV )

    “Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:” ( Psalm 103:1-2 KJV )

    “Bless the LORD, O my soul, and all that is within me, bless his holy name! Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits,” ( Psalm 103:1-2 ESV )

    So, . . . Is His “holy name” LORD? Notice that all capital letters are different sized font. Why? Answer = Just to be different. In most bibles they are all the same size font; as “Bless the LORD, O my soul,” in Strong’s version. You will find that LORD is wherever the holy name Jehovah appears in the original manuscripts. How can a person bless, or praise His Name if you don’t know what it is? It’s like saying, “Hey YOU”, bless YOU. I’m saying this with everything that is in ME!

    So, . . . God, God, GOD answers YOU with, “WHO are YOU? I don’t know YOU!! What is YOUR name?

    Back in August 21, 2014 I posted god, God, and GOD, lord, Lord, and LORD. Unfortunately it does not have the proper fonts and has: [FONT=&amp]42 Saying, What think ye of Christ?, and similar errors throughout.


    I was about to re-post the original under the same heading of: god, God, and GOD, lord, Lord, and LORD; But, it is 3 pages long. If you would like to re-read it, as it appears now, please do.

    It has things like: [FONT=&amp]or adny, which is ‘adon[FONT :( :mad:[/FONT]

    [/FONT]
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Here are 3 translations of 3 different verses from the Hebrew scriptures. Although they are slightly different, they say the same thing. It’s about trusting someone’s word. The word for trust, in Hebrew, is batach (baw-takh); to trust in, have confidence in, make secure, feel safe.

    Essentially, don’t take another’s word for spiritual advice; trust in Jehovah’s word, and when it comes to His word: CHECK IT OUT!!!

    Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, for there is no salvation in him.” ( Ps 146:3 LITV )

    Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help.” ( Ps 146:3 NKJV )

    Don’t put your confidence in powerful people; there is no help for you there.” ( Ps 146:3 NLT )
    ____________________________________________________________________
    Do not trust yourself to lying words, saying, The temple of Jehovah! The temple of Jehovah! This is the temple of Jehovah!” ( Jer 7:4 LITV ) (I.E. Any organization claiming to be THE TRUE CHURCH)

    Do not trust in these lying words, saying, ‘The temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord are these.’” ( Jer 7:4 NJKV )

    But don’t be fooled by those who promise you safety simply because the Lord’s Temple is here. They chant, “The Lord’s Temple is here! The Lord’s Temple is here!’” ( Jer 7:4 NLT )
    __________________________________________________________________
    Let everyone be on guard against his neighbor, and do not trust any brother; because every brother deals craftily, and every neighbor goes about as a slanderer.” ( Jer 9:4 NASB )

    Everyone take heed to his neighbor, and do not trust any brother; for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbor will walk with slanderers.” ( Jer 9:4 NKJV )

    Beware of your neighbor, don’t even trust your brother; for brother takes advantage of brother, and friend slanders friend.” ( Jer 9:4 NLT )

    Learn how to tell the truth from a lie. Here is how it works: experience! “Is it true that God has said, You shall not eat from any tree of the garden?” What is true in this sentence? Nothing! That is not what God said! “And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, You may freely eat of every tree in the garden;” Wait! Wait! Does it really say that? Yes, it does! But!! There is a BUT!! So, being deceitful as he already was, the serpent did not finish the full command. “but of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you may not eat,” Why? Was it truly different from the other trees? Was it an apple? Well, it was different, only because God said it was! It represented something unique! There were two unique trees in the garden. But, let’s focus on this particular tree which brought out a lie. Eve was inexperienced. She was younger than Adam. Also, Jehovah did not speak directly to Eve. She learned from Adam. (Gen 2:16-17)

    For the liar (Satan), the easiest victim was Eve. ( Gen 3:6-7 ) We don’t know how old Adam was when Eve was created. We do know how old Adam was when Seth was born. ( Gen 5:3 ) We can assume that she was younger than Adam when she gave birth to Seth. We don’t know when Eve died. We also don’t know when Cain or Abel were born, or died. This is likely because they were not in the line of descent to the Christ. That line runs from Seth. ( Gen 5 )
     
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    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Angels As Helpers.
    I had a conversation with a close friend yesterday about our faith and benefits of our belief, that the angels will help in protecting us from evil. He had me repeat what I had said, because he did not believe it. So, I repeated it, and gave the scripture below.

    Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.” ( Mt 18:10 KJV )

    Who were these “little ones” that Jesus was talking about? His disciples were arguing; “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” ( Mt 18:1-5 KJV ) They were always arguing about this subject. ( Mk 9:33-34 KJV ), ( Luke 9:46-48, 22:24-26 KJV ) Jesus used this example of a little child as a child’s way of thinking, and wanting to gain knowledge about the kingdom of God, and relying on God. Paul also mentions some of the responsibilities of angels.

    The apostle Paul wrote to the Ephesians saying: “Therefore be imitators of God as dear children.” If we are believers in Christ, we are considered as “children” of God. ( (Eph 5:1 NKJV )

    In his letter to the Philippians, Paul wrote; “Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,” ( Phil 2:14-15 NJKV )

    That is very true today. There is corruption and evil in every government in the world today.
    But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?” ( Heb 1:13-14 KJV ) Let us not fall into the trap that plagued the nation of Israel during the time of Christ. Only believe.
     
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    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    What, if any, difference is there between: figure of speech, metaphor, rhetoric, and literal. These are important to understand when reading and understanding the Bible. That is because there are many of these in every language, especially in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Latin.

    I mention Latin because there is a Latin name inserted into the book of Isaiah as “Lucifer.” ( Isa 14:12 KJV ) This is an important issue because it has mislead many people. The actual Hebrew word in the manuscripts is heylel ( hay-lale’ ), shining one. I won’t go further on this subject here, as it is lengthy.

    What I am more concerned about is how these different uses of speech affect our understanding of the teachings in the Bible. First and foremost is: “figure of speech”. Why? Because it is; “any expressive use of language, as a metaphor, simile, personification, or antithesis, in which words are used in other than their literal sense, or in other than their ordinary locutions, in order to suggest a picture or image or for other special effect.” ( Dictionary )

    A figure of speech is a phrase or saying that’s not literal, like saying someone who died “kicked the bucket.” Language is full of terms, phrases, and sayings that might seem odd if you don't already know what they mean. When you say you’re hungry enough to eat a horse, it’s doubtful you mean that literally: it’s just a figure of speech. When you say it’s raining cats and dogs, pets aren’t falling from the sky: it’s a figure of speech. English is full of figures of speech, which are definitely not a case of language going to the dogs. ( vocabulary.com )

    Another word to define is trope:
    Rhetoric .
    a. any literary or rhetorical device, as metaphor, metonymy, synecdoche, and irony, that consists in the use of words in other than their literal sense.
    b. an instance of this. Compare figure of speech.
    c. a phrase, sentence, or verse formerly interpolated in a liturgical text to amplify or embellish.

    Here is a good example:
    You have heard that it was said to the ancients: ‘Do not commit adultery.’ ( Ex. 20:14; Deut. 5:18 ) But I say to you, Everyone looking at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. But if your right eye offends you, take it out and throw it from you, for it is profitable to you that one of your members should perish and all your body not be thrown into Hell. And if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you, for it is profitable to you that one of your members should perish and all your body not be thrown into Hell.” ( Mt 5:27-30 LITV )

    Which form of speech was Jesus using here? Figure of speech, Metaphor, Rhetoric, or Literal?

     
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    Absolutely brother...

    Understanding the difference between figure of speech, metaphor, rhetoric, and literal, in my opinion, is the most important aspect to understand context within the text.

    It has been my observation, Scripture is written in literal terms, unless it can be cross referenced to show metaphoric intent.

    As an example:

    "I and the Father are one." (Jhn 10:30)

    "So that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me." (Jhn 17:21)
     
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    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I had a discussion with one of my grandson's father. Written word is different than spoken word, especially the expression on the speakers face. Are the smiling, frowning, angry, happy, despondent? I also had a way of speaking to my children. It was "The Look"! They automatically knew how to respond or act. In many cases, I didn't have to say a word.
     
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