(Sorry, I've been out of action for a couple of days - had to buy a new charger for the laptop. The old charger got fried while it was still connected to the laptop. Curl my hair!! It scared the daylights out of me! Fortunately, the laptop seems to be working ok.)

Anyway........we had a circuit overseer visit some time ago. One of the elders was talking about it to some of the brothers/sisters. According to the elder, the circuit overseer stressed that the Society was strongly emphasising the use of electronic devices for theocratic activities. This is apparently part of Jehovah's "will" at this time.

The other point that the circuit overseer stressed was that the congregation must be "ready to obey all directions from the slave, even if they seem strange, or are not strategic, from a human point of view. Elders must listen to the directions that come the slave."

 

That statement is getting a lot of emphasis in recent times. I think it's disturbing. A few years ago, I was at a district convention (I would have to go back through the assembly programs to find which year it was, because I can't remember the year.) I remember a brother said from the platform in an over-confident manner, that it was the role of the GB to be Jehovah's "watchman." He said that "the GB would bear bloodguilt if they knew of events that would affect Jehovah's people, but failed to shed light on these events."

Bearing that context in mind, I have to ask myself: "What is it that the GB know that they are not sharing with the congregations at this time?" That's not fulfilling the role of a watchman.

 

They are part of false religion and have been since they blamed their horrendous relationship with the U.N. where they invited the throne of Satan into their Temple and have not to my knowledge shown any repentance since. Could the Bible describe it any better than how it does in Revelation 2....

“To the angel of the congregation in Thy·a·tiʹra+ [Freddie Franz] write: These are the things that the Son of God says, the one who has eyes like a fiery flame+ and whose feet are like fine copper:+ 19 ‘I know your deeds, and your love and faith and ministry and endurance, and that your deeds of late are more than those you did at first. 20 “‘Nevertheless, I do hold this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezʹe·bel,+ [Jezebel is the wife of the King (Franz),they are the GB, Jehovah does not operate under a democracy and never has, this arrangement is an abomination to him] who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and misleads my slaves to commit sexual immorality* [with the U.N., and Satan] + and to eat things sacrificed to idols. [we read and distributed the Watchtower's and Awake's that the society printed as part of their campaign to promote the U.N. which was part of their legal agreement they signed, that they deny, yet they published numerous advertisement pieces for the U.N.] 21 And I gave her [the GB of the Watchtower] time to repent, but she is not willing to repent of her sexual immorality [spiritual] .* 22 Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with deadly plague, [the congregations] so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts* and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds.+

This seems to be something that those on this board either cannot comprehend or just refuse to even consider the possibility. How can an organization that is "unrepentant" and has been for over 25 years, how can they oversee a baptism of repentance? The short answer is they can't and they do not have a valid baptism anymore. They are a solid part of Babylon, they are imprisoned by it.

 

So, in your mind it's OK that they have never publicly or privately repented for their sin but blamed all the trouble on "opposers"? Since they have not repented their children feel no need to repent either. What will happen to those according to this scripture if they do not collectively repent for this massive sin against God? Read It again Josh.

Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with deadly plague, [the congregations] so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts* and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds.+

Sounds like a serious warning to me. Ignore it if you will and encourage others to do the same by your words and actions. It's not me who has said these things, it is God himself in his Word the Bible. My opinion does not matter at all, but his does.

 

Using that analagy the Catholic Church is still "God's People" arn't they?

 

There are seeds of the Devil in the Watchtower and some of them have risen to the GB. They will try their best to put misinformation into the hands of the faithful to confuse them when this time comes. So, now they have to condition your minds not to ask any questions but to simply listen and comply. That is what these bad seed are looking for you to do. Be careful, if it violates your conscience or sound Bible principles, don't do it.

 

It was the early Christian Church started by Jesus that morphed into the Catholic Church. They were alive and kicking in the first Century and get a number of comments in the letters of Paul and John. Revelation is pretty much about the evolution of the Catholic Church in the first and early second Centuries. So, where would you draw the line between when they were a pure and holy church (ecclesia) and when they became the Catholic Church. i know they thought they always were right from the time of Christ.

It's very similar to the situation with the Watchtower. Yes, when they were established by Charles Russell (a type of Elijah in that he started the "late rain", which is an approved baptism from God) they were indeed the true faith of God and Christ on earth. Not because they were perfect or they knew everything there is to know about the Bible. No, it was because of Charles Russell's relationship with Jehovah, much like that of Abraham had.

But we also know from scripture that even the Watchtower would be taken over by "darnel", planted and cultivated by Satan the Devil. He has planted these seeds in every religion on the face of the earth to compete with the seeds planted by Jesus and the angels. The have grown and matured and like in worldly politics Satan makes sure that his seed rise to the top. "And to whomever I wish, I give them". This is the condition of the Watchtower at this point. Just when Joshua did the early Christian Church become "Babylon"? Likewise, when does the Watchtower evolve into Babylon themselves. It has to happen, it is destined in the Holy Word of God.

I say their start was when they evolved into a Democracy. In the early 70's when they went to the "Governing Body" system of Spiritual Democracy. Jehovah has never operated that way. He operates through Jesus and through a vassal King on Earth. Yes, the older men always have had their say, but in the end it was, is the vassal King who makes up the final decision, like a husband does in a marriage. The wife always has many good ideas, but it is the husband who is charged with making the final decision.

Then, in January of 1992 they "finalized" their formal relationship with the Beast, the U.N. To prove that they would be a good NGO, they published numerous articles highlighting the excellent qualities of the U.N. and what they were accomplishing and planning for the earth. I myself, along with other Regular Pioneers, Auxiliary Pioneers and regular publishers went around as ambassadors for the NGO and place these articles with the public. We did this unknowingly because who would ever think that the Watchtower, the organization that we loved because we thought they were God's faithful servant. We never thought they would stoop this low and lower their brithches to have spiritual sex with Satan's premier organization on Earth. Who would have known?

But, they were found out, in September-October of 2001 when the first article came out in the English Newspaper about their dalliances. Now, what was their reaction? Tears and begging for forgiveness from Jehovah and from the flock that they were Shepherding? No, not exactly. They instead pointed fingers at the "opposers" much like Adam and Eve when confronted with their sin. "It was that Women you gave me", "It was that tricky guy in the garden, that serpent, he tricked me". I have sat in many committee meetings with sinners and the truly repentant ones don't act that way. No, it is the hardened sinners that try to come up with "valid" excuses for their actions and most times they will never admit wrongdoing unless they think it will get them out of trouble and even then they will only admit what is necessary to get off the hook. If you have never sat on a committee ask someone who has, they will tell you the same thing.

Both Knorr and Franz were warned in Scripture about their "tolerating" Jezebel and spiritual fornication and idolatry. In the mention to the messenger of Pergamum (Knorr) the Bible says, “‘Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, that you have there those adhering to the teaching of Baʹlaam,+ who taught Baʹlak+ to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality. This was just the start as more and more honor was being given to the GB in Knorr's time, but it would get worse after Knorr's death when Franz took over. It was not all Franz's fault however as he was old and had on a couple occasions expressed his discontent with the rising power of the GB. He knew that Jehovah does not operate using "multi-headed bodies". He even made a point of this at a Gilead graduation where he was the key note speaker. But, just the same Jehovah gave him this reminder, "“To the angel of the congregation in Thy·a·tiʹra+ write: "“‘Nevertheless, I do hold this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezʹe·bel,+ who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and misleads my slaves to commit sexual immorality*+ and to eat things sacrificed to idols."

After almost ten years the Bible says this, "And I gave her time to repent, but she is not willing to repent of her sexual immorality.". No, she didn't repent, but became hardened in sin like the Catholic Church. That is a true sign that you have Satanic seed in your Church, when they make sinful decisions and fail to repent. A true seed of the Christ would repent, I think. Perhaps there were even some on the GB that wanted to show repentance but were "outvoted" by their Democracy and they relented or "tolerated Jezebel" like Pergamum and Thyatira had in the past.

Yet, even after all this patience with the Watchtower Jehovah gives one last warning to Milton Henschel, the angel of Sardis. First, Jehovah tells Milton something that perhaps he already knew but perhaps did not think was a bit deal. He informs him that he is not "born again" or "alive" in the Biblical sense. Yes he says to Milton or Sardis, "‘I know your deeds, that you have the name* that you are alive, but you are dead." Yes, Milton was a good Christian and he was in a position of power, but he was not recognized as a Son of God, he was not "born again", at least he was not in the first new covenant. Then he says "Become watchful,+ and strengthen the things remaining that were ready to die, for I have not found your works fully performed* before my God. 3 Therefore, continue mindful of* how you have received and how you heard, and go on keeping it, and repent.+ Certainly unless you wake up, I will come as a thief,+ and you will not know at all at what hour I will come upon you.+

Then Jehovah through Jesus informs him of this, "“‘Nevertheless, you do have a few individuals* in Sarʹdis who did not defile their garments,+ and they will walk with me in white ones,+ because they are worthy. 5 The one who conquers+ will thus be dressed in white garments,+ and I will by no means blot out* his name from the book of life,+ but I will acknowledge his name before my Father and before his angels.+ 6 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’

Yes, Jesus tells us that there are some at Bethel who have not defiled themselves, they have not sinned like the GB has. And he reminds Milton to repent. I have no way of proving this of course, I fully admit that, but I think Milton did repent and that was his motivation for stepping down as President shortly before his death in I think 2002. I think he recognized the sin that was committed and did what Jehovah and Jesus exhorted him to do, REPENT!

Well, it has been another 15 years for a total of 24 or 25 since the grevous sin in January of 1992. See any demonstrations of repentence? I sure don't. They are firmly in the grips of Babylon Joshua. It is when Israel was entrenched in their sinful condition that Jehovah would punish them using a worldly power, once carted off to Babylon itself. Well, I think they are deeply entrenched in sin, but like the Catholic Church they are just carrying on like nothing ever happened, la de dah! If not, at what point would you say they were in spiritual Babylon because we know the Witnesses are not going to be carried off to literal Babylon at any time. This is a spiritual thing, like is demonstrated to Thyatira, Pergamum and Sardis in Revelation.

They must show public repentance and her children must do the same. David committed a grievous sin himself, but with the help of Nathan the prophet was able to be brought to his senses and recognize his sin and be motivated to repentance and he was forgiven by God of his awful sin of Adultery and Murder. The Watchtower is in the same position as David and many Nathan's have gone to them and tried to motivate them to repent and be forgiven but they have not. If they never show repentance they will recieve what was warned to them in Revelation..."Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts* and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds.+"

There are many in the Watchtower that do not know of this sin, and if so, I don't think it will be held against them. But others do know and they have shrugged it off as of no importance and still prance around saying in their hearts, "‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning.’+ 8 That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire,+ because Jehovah* God, who judged her, is strong.+"

No, Joshua this is no little matter. The Governing Body (Jezebel) has encouraged the congregation to commit spiritual fornication and to eat foods (Watchtower & Awakes) sacrificed to idols (extolling the virtues of both the U.N. and the GB itself). They and their children need to recognize this sin and repent publicly. If they don't they will receive Jesus wrath when he comes as a their in the night. He came in Henschel's time and removed the Watchtower's approved baptism. He will come again soon and enforce his words in Revelation 2 & 3 on the Watchtower and the Congregation members who knew of the sin and did not repent.

I have long repented of my share of that sin and every other sin that I have committed and continue to commit each day. I think many who read this board have in some way done the same. The Watchtower is in Babylon as we speak. They are also Ninevah, they are also Jericho, and they are also Sodom. They must repent of their collective sin in following Jezebel. I know these are hard words but so were the words of Nathan the prophet to David. They must have cut David to his very soul when he realized what Nathan was really saying. I am far from the prophet Nathan, but I exhort everyone in the Watchtower and out to repent and return to Jehovah. Jesus will come soon and he will make the clarion call for all to come out of her my people. Listen to his voice. Recognize that you are in Babylon and come out at that time. Don't be fooled by the false words of the GB, as they will try to take you in a different direction altogether.

 

Hi Wallflower,

Of course that they want us to use electronic devices.... Digital publications cost almost no money to make and dispatch.

As for the elder's comments.... same old same old... But I think that many, many b/s are less stupid and suggestible than that...

 

Hi Utuna

Yes, I can think of some brothers/sisters in the congregation that would remember to apply 1 John 4:1 ("Keep testing the inspired expressions") when it comes to hearing a direction from the GB.

 

I might be mistaken here but when I first signed on to Robert's forum years ago, that is the "vibe" or tone that I sensed when I read the posts of the forum members - that they followed Jehovah, not the GB.

When the GB lose their position, that will be a test for the brothers and sisters. Are they going to follow Jehovah or will they follow men?

Isn't everyone here waiting for Jesus to call? That's just how it reads to me.

 

Hi Wallflower:

I don't think that all on the GB are Satan's seed, maybe a clear minority, I don't know as I am not an angel and cannot tell who is a weed and who is not. The scriptures tell us that it is so difficult that if we try we will make mistakes and pull out the good seed with the bad. I just know that there is an evil influence there, otherwise they would have seen their errors and publicly repented in some way. It is not Satan's way to repent, at least not for now. His seed are the same way. I think the Bible is clear that in the last days there will be an apostacy and that like the first Century it will already be in full bloom but we will not be able to see it with our eyes but will have to depend on our spiritual vision.

I love all my brothers and sisters in the Watchtower and do not wish to see any lose their lives at the end of this system of things. I miss the warm fellowship with them, but I have to speak what I see as the truth no matter whose feelings I may hurt. It is not my intention to hurt people's feelings at all. I may do that, but that is not my intention. My intention is to speak the truth as I see it. If I am wrong I will be disciplined and I am willing to accept any and all discipline from Jehovah, Jesus and anyone else in a position to dish it out.

When I went back and read those articles in the Watchtower and Awake's that were pointed out by Robert King and Gordon Ritchie at the time, I was fuming but I kept my cool and I quietly researched to make sure that what was being said about the Watchtower was true or not and I did that for about three years. When I was contented that it was true I went to the body of Elders and made my complaint. To make a long story short they said you will do it the Watchtower way or you will not do it at all. I immediately turned in my resignation and I have not looked back. I have only looked forward to the time when Jesus will come through his Bride and then himself at Armageddon. That time is close I feel and people need to know that they are in Babylon so they have the sense to get out when Jesus makes the call. Be ready, the call could come at any time.

 

That's Watchtower babel and you know it. The apostasy was already screaming in the first century and is mentioned many times in the Bible such as here:

"True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work,+ but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth+ and bring to nothing by the manifestation+ of his presence. [to stand beside], which you know is soon to happen, not hundreds of years from now] 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan+ with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders*+ 10 and every unrighteous deception+ for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie,+ 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thess. 2

Pay attention to yourselves+ and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers,+ to shepherd the congregation of God,+ which he purchased with the blood of his own Son.+ 29 I know that after my going away [not 200 or 300 years later] oppressive wolves will enter in among you+ and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.+ Acts 20

This is how Satan does it, not with grand overtures but slowly from within. But by the latter half of the first century Christianity was already being grossly corrupted by the "universal Catholic Church"- and they had already been firmly in their apostasy. That's what the book of Revelation was for in the latter half of the first century. It identifies the whore right in it's pages and means then, and now. The Bible was written primarily for the two presences of the Christ. The first established by Jesus himself in the first century into the second and the second presence of the Christ now going forward from it's recognition by Charles Russell in the late 1800's and continued on by Jehovah's Witnesses. Unfortunately, Satan has infiltrated the Watchtower as well, right up to the head. Listen for the call of the Master and when you hear it, get to running cause Babylon will surely be destroyed and everyone who is in it whether they know it or not, they should have known.