Discussing Prophecy

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by SingleCell, Aug 8, 2017.

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    john

    john Member

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    How can any rebuilding occur during a time of trampling?

    Joshuastone7 said:
    Because that was why they originally went into captivity, before their restoration.

    In the context of Gog (chapters 38 &39) When did they originally go into captivity? When were they restored?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Because they are gathering back during that time, it's not till the last day of the 1260 and the 69th week is our Lord given the kingdom of the earth, that's why the two witnesses are preaching in sackloth for the whole 42 months.

    The ending of the constant feature is the earthly arrangement set up by Jehovah, and it's not till the last day of the 1260 is that reestablished when our Lord is given rulership over earth. The call to rebuild is the gathering back together. I only know that's what the chronology seems to say, but how that takes form, IDK. Is there a not for profit again, is it all online, is it a speaking tour? That's beyond what I know. All I know is they are in captivity for the entire 42 months, but there is a call to rebuild/gather back, and the kingdom is established at the end of the 42 months.

    They go into captivity at the begging of the 1260 days, and are restored at the end of the 1260 days, but start gathering at the call 69 weeks before.
     
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    john

    john Member

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    First let me say that I appreciate your willingness to respond. Thank you.:)

    Ok based on that if you say that Gog attacks on 1,290 then that means that within 30 days there went from:

    “no more WTS, all kingdom Halls sold and no more organization world wide”

    to:

    [“I shall go up against the land of open rural country. I shall come in upon those having no disturbance, dwelling in security, all of them dwelling without wall, and they do not have even bar and doors.” 12 It will be to get a big spoil and to do much plundering, in order to turn your hand back upon devastated places reinhabited and upon a people gathered together out of the nations, [one] that is accumulating wealth and property, [those] who are dwelling in the center of the earth…Is it to do much plundering that you have congregated your congregation, in order to carry off silver and gold, to take wealth and property, to get a very great spoil?”’]

    Is that correct?



    Also I again have to ask:


    In the context of Gog (chapters 38 &39)

    When did they originally go into captivity?

    When were they restored?


    I know you gave me this answer:


    ‘They go into captivity at the begging of the 1260 days, and are restored at the end of the 1260 days’


    But I originally asked those two questions based on your replay to this:


    john said:

    [“it was because of their error that they, the house of Israel, went into exile, on account of the fact that they behaved unfaithfully toward me, so that I concealed my face from them and gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and they kept falling, all of them, by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I did with them, and I kept concealing my face from them”]


    Your reply: Because that was why they originally went into captivity, before their restoration.


    So again:


    In the context of Gog (chapters 38 &39)

    When did they originally go into captivity?

    When were they restored?


    I am looking for you to show me scriptures in Ezekiel. Sorry if I wasn’t more clear about that.:)
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    No, there are 1290 days between those two.

    The WT goes down at the beginning of the 1260 as the constant feature, Christ given rulerhip of earth at end of 1260 days, and then 30 days after that the 8th king attacks starting Armageddon.
     
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    john

    john Member

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    OK you seem to be all over the place here…maybe it’s just me but here is a recap.


    I said: When in your timeline do you place the calamity in Joel’s account coming upon Jehovah’s people?


    You said: At the beginning of the 1260 days.


    I said: do you view Gog’s attack as the same as the Northerner’s or is it a separate? If separate, where do you place Gog’s attack in your timeline?


    You said: I'm assuming you mean Ezekiel, and that account is speaking of the placing of the disgusting thing, 1290 days after the constant feature is removed, 30 days after the 1260 end...


    You also said: All I know is they are in captivity for the entire 42 months,… They go into captivity at the beginning of the 1260 days, and are restored at the end of the 1260 days


    So to me if I understand correctly you said that the Northerner’s attack is at the beginning of the 1,260 and ends at the end of the 1,260 at which time they are restored then Gog attacks a restored people on the 1,290 day which is 30 days after the end of the 1,260 days. So if that is correct then let me refer you back to the top portion of above post


    "john, post: 24439, member: 27"]
    Ok based on that if you say that Gog attacks on 1,290 then that means that within 30 days there went from:

    “no more WTS, all kingdom Halls sold and no more organization world wide”

    to:

    [“I shall go up against the land of open rural country. I shall come in upon those having no disturbance, dwelling in security, all of them dwelling without wall, and they do not have even bar and doors.” 12 It will be to get a big spoil and to do much plundering, in order to turn your hand back upon devastated places reinhabited and upon a people gathered together out of the nations, [one] that is accumulating wealth and property, [those] who are dwelling in the center of the earth…Is it to do much plundering that you have congregated your congregation, in order to carry off silver and gold, to take wealth and property, to get a very great spoil?”’]

    Is that correct?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    The preceding chapters show the captivity.

    Ez 34:2-6 "“Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy, and say to the shepherds, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel, who have been feeding themselves! Is it not the flock that the shepherds should feed? You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, and you slaughter the fattest animal, but you do not feed the flock. You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bandaged the injured or brought back the strays or looked for the lost; rather, you have ruled them with harshness and tyranny. So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; they were scattered and became food for every wild beast of the field. My sheep were straying on all the mountains and on every high hill; my sheep were scattered over all the surface of the earth, with no one searching for them or seeking to find them."

    Just about the whole book is dedicated to the errors of Israel/constant feature, and Israel is in captivity before 38 & 39.

    The restoration before the final attack is in chapter 37 and the bones coming to life...

    Eze 37:21 "Then tell them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “I will take the Israelites from among the nations where they have gone, and I will collect them together from every direction and bring them to their land."
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    No, you still don't seem to grasp it yet... Bare with me please, I'm usually more jovial, I've just had a rough couple days, but be assured everything I write is with all love between you and I my dear brother, and this conversation is extremely important to me...

    The WTS would go down at the beginning of the 1260. That's what starts the 1260 day clock, so on that day there is no WTS period...

    Gods people dwell in security 1260 days later when our Lord is given rulership of the earth at the last day of the 1260 days. But during those 1260 they are in captivity to Babylon.

    Then Gog attacks 30 days later...

    Which means there is 1290 days between no more WTS, and Gogs attack...

    This is Dan 12:11, 1290 days between these two events...

    Am I not answering your question? If not try again...
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Let's put it this way, there is 1290 days between the northerners attack and Gogs attack...

    And there is no WTS on the first day of the 1260 days.
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    john

    john Member

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    This is in response to your post #106


    So chapter 38 & 39 about Gog that is said to be a future fulfillment and had no past fulfillment (That I am aware of. I could be wrong about that.), something that is suppose to come upon spiritual Israel (JW’S) …why in the context of that would there be a need to let the present day nations know that in the past with physical Israel that attacks/captivity not even brought on by Gog mind you, but regards the nations need to know at the time that Gog is attacking spiritual Israel in the future, that physical Israel was attacked in the past for their unfaithfulness…

    [Ezekiel 39:23 And the nations will have to know that it was because of their error that they, the house of Israel, went into exile, on account of the fact that they behaved unfaithfully toward me, so that I concealed my face from them and gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and they kept falling, all of them, by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I did with them, and I kept concealing my face from them.’]



    Now in response to #107


    WOW I think you need a nap!:)


    What you just said is everything that I just recapped. I apparently do understand you correctly but it is you who don’t understand yourself right now. Or you don’t want to address the 30 days. Which is it?


    I’ll try again based on what you have just said again.


    You said: The WTS would go down at the beginning of the 1260. That's what starts the 1260 day clock, so on that day there is no WTS period...


    You also said: All I know is they are in captivity for the entire 42 months,… They go into captivity at the beginning of the 1260 days, and are restored at the end of the 1260 days


    You said: Then Gog attacks 30 days later... Which means there is 1290 days between no more WTS, and Gogs attack...


    So putting it all together we have:


    The WTS going down at start of 1,260 days and is restored at the end of the 1,260 days


    So during that time (the 1,260 days) it will be as you said in an earlier post:


    “no more WTS, all kingdom Halls sold and no more organization world wide”


    You also say that Gog will attack 30 days later, which will be the 1,290th day from the first day of the 1,260. And when this attack occurs in will come upon a restored people.


    You say that the restoring occurs at the end of the 1,260 days…that means that since Gog attacks them in an already restore state that ALL the restoring happened within the 30 days.


    Is that right, are we both clear on your view here…if so then this is what you are saying looks like:



    Picture in your mind all that you want making up the WTS from the late 1800’s to the start of the 1,260 days.


    Now picture that all being gone at the start of the 1,260 days and remaining gone up until the last day of the 1,260 days


    Now picture the first day of the 30 days that will lead to the 1,290th day, the time that Gog will attack…


    Ok you got all that in you mind…


    So with the first day in mind and considering the remaining 29 days…this is what the outcome within those 30 days has to be so Gog can attack on the 1,290th day…


    [“I shall go up against the land of open rural country. I shall come in upon those having no disturbance, dwelling in security, all of them dwelling without wall, and they do not have even bar and doors.” 12 It will be to get a big spoil and to do much plundering, in order to turn your hand back upon devastated places reinhabited and upon a people gathered together out of the nations, [one] that is accumulating wealth and property, [those] who are dwelling in the center of the earth…Is it to do much plundering that you have congregated your congregation, in order to carry off silver and gold, to take wealth and property, to get a very great spoil]
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Firstly, let me remind you of what gold we are talking about...

    Rev 3:18 "I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may become dressed and that the shame of your nakedness may not be exposed, and eyesalve to rub in your eyes so that you may see."

    The plundering is because at the moment the 1260 days end the holy spirit is poured out, Christs brothers will be transfigured, this is the reports out of the north in Dan 11:44.

    Keep in mind the call to rebuild Jerusalem 69 weeks before this. Spiritual Israel will be gathering back together for 69 weeks before the last day of the 1260 and our Lord is given rulership. So it's not as if just suddenly all believers are gathered together on one day, and Gog attacks 30 days later. Besides, our Lord tells us the gold is metaphoric, and they will be gathering that for 69 weeks.

    However I will say this, if I'm right, and the chronology I laid out is accurate, we'll know the very day the KOTS and probably financial system will collapse, do you think you could get rich if you knew that day? Futures? Physicals?

    But regardless, the two witnesses (being literal) will be preaching and gathering back Jehovah's people to him, and on the last day the holy spirit is poured out, they are transfigured, and the wild beast is going to know who they are, this sparks the two witnesses death.

    I'll look over your post to see if there is anything else I can answer.
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    The 8th king will know these are Gods people at the end of the 1260 days, the wealth is as our Lord told us, the gold we bought from him. This is when they attempt to "cut their cords loose". This is also the reason Babylon goes down at this time, the 8th king turns on her after realizing she had lied to them, and they find out she is not the spokesmen for God.
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    So to recap, 69 weeks before the end of the 1260 days there is a call by the literal two witnesses to rebuild, and this is the start of the in-gathering of Jehovah's people back to him. So, once our Lord is given rulership of the earth that day, that is the restoration, it happens in heaven, but is manifested by the remaining of Christs brothers being transfigured just like Stephen and Moses, and our lord in the transfiguration on the Mount of Olives, when the spirit is poured out.

    Imagine the joy and security these ones will feel at that moment, compared to everyone else in the world seeing calamity.

    Acts 2:19 "And in the last days,” God says, “I will pour out some of my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams, and even on my male slaves and on my female slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy."

    Joel 2:28 "After that I will pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, And your sons and your daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, And your young men will see visions."
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    And just a quick point, once the WTS is gone, it's gone forever. The Jerusalem that is established when our Lord is enthroned at the end of the 1260 days is the real one from above, the one that endures forever... The wealth is of course, metaphoric...
     
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    john

    john Member

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    [“12 It will be to get a big spoil and to do much plundering, in order to turn your hand back upon devastated places reinhabited and upon a people gathered together out of the nations, [one] that is accumulating wealth and property, [those] who are dwelling in the center of the earth…Is it to do much plundering that you have congregated your congregation, in order to carry off silver and gold, to take wealth and property, to get a very great spoil?”’]

    How do you get property with out wealth?

    I suppose the property is metaphoric too?

    Where will the ‘the disgusting thing” be placed if no property?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
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    Joshuastone7

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    The holy place at that time will be Christs brothers... Remember the sanctuary of old? You had to enter the courtyard through the gate that represented Christ. The alter represented our Lords sacrifice, while the basin the washing of our sins away. But then the holy place, it was where the 12 loaves were, the 12 tribes of Israel, Christs brothers of 144k, while the lamp of the Word was to your left. The incense at the end of the room are the prayers of the holy ones, that flow over the hole in the top of the curtain into the most holy, and that most holy represents heaven. In the end when the 8th king enters the holy place, that's where the remaining 12 loaves are, the remaining of Christs brothers. The 8th king attempts to kill all remaining of Christs brothers, hence the eyeball of Jehovah and Armageddon.

    And yes the property is metaphoric of the whole world... The 8th king will know these ones will inherit everything...

    Psm 37:29 "The righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it forever."
     
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    john

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Another side note, going back to our temple sanctuary, it is the courtyard just outside the temple that is trampled according to Rev 11, and you had to enter through the gate representing Christ in order to enter the courtyard, but the temple is left alone, because it is entered at the end of the 1290th day. Also note it's not the Most Holy, but the holy place the disgusting thing enters, and that is where the 12 loaves are again, the remaining ones on earth made up of the 144k.

    Rev 11 tells us this whole scenario is metaphoric, if the courtyard is, so is the temple...
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Once Christs brothers are resurrected, the world is the prize... That's what the 8th king thinks it's fighting for and to protect... Scripture is very clear they will know what's coming.

    As soon as the two witnesses are resurrected, the whole world will see it. Then an angel makes an announcement to the whole world as well, everyone will know at the moment the two witnesses are resurrected, and the angel speaks, that these two were in fact Jehovah's spokesmen.

    Rev 11:11-13 " After the three and a half days, spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell upon those who saw them. And they heard a loud voice from heaven say to them: “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies saw them. In that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; and 7,000 persons were killed by the earthquake, and the rest became frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven."

    Rev 14:6 "And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people."
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Sorry, I missed this question...

    The house of Israel spoken of in Ez 39 is JWs, their going into captivity is what occurs at the beginning of the 1260 days. Once the two witnesses are resurrected the world will know why they went into captivity, for all the elders errors throughout Ezekiel...

    Anyway, it's not talking about Israel of old, but the metaphoric Israelite in the end. The fulfillment of Peters vision of the sheet, and Cornelius.
     

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