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For three revolts and for four

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Abdiel7, May 16, 2018.

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    Abdiel7

    Abdiel7 New Member

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    Was reading Isaiah 2, Micah 4 and Jeremiah 48-49 and it seems to support the vast mixed company/coalition of loyal Christians form in the future regathering. A remnant of Moab Ammon and Elam are regathered, Edom's judgement seems bleaker but it seems to imply it's widows and fatherless boys make it.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I am not saying we should snooze a little, or even fall into a deep sleep. I’m saying that we (I) need to do some serious work on my faults. Trying to associate time periods, days, months and years, can mislead us. First of all, I don’t known when I will die! Will I be found worthy of redemption?

    I was thinking about this the other day: Maybe 1914 was the beginning of the thousand year reign of Christ Jesus. Was that when Satan was cast out of heaven? (Rev 12:9-17) What has happened since that time? Is war being waged against true believers in Christ? Are times getting better for the earth? Jesus didn’t say that the kingdom would immediately wipe out all the bad that was occurring.

    And the dragon was enraged over the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, those keeping the commandments of God, and having the testimony of Jesus Christ.” (Rev 12:17 LITV)

    Satan and his demons are going to increase their efforts to cause us all to fall. Adam and Eve were created perfect. Perfect! Think about that! No faults at all, yet Satan caused them to break God’s commandment. “And the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and the tree was desirable to make one wise.” ( Gen 3:6a LITV )

    Let’s break down this portion of the account. I could say “this sentence” but in truth it is an idea, or situation that considers thought. First of all, it involves sight. This all happened before she had a name. She was a woman ('ishshah = ish-shaw') “saw”: The Hebrew word is ( ra'ah = raw-aw’ ) : to see, look at, inspect, perceive, consider. She spent some time looking at the fruit, time to consider it’s value. It didn’t look ugly, but “good” (towb = tobe, pronounced tove) meaning to be pleasant, delightful, beneficial, favorable.

    It looked like something you would like to eat. It wasn’t something you would say “eeewww that’s ugly. I wouldn’t want to eat that!” The main thought is it was, “desirable”, The Hebrew word is chamad = khaw-mad' (pronounced haw-mahd’) meaning: to desire, covet, take pleasure in, delight in. So the woman didn’t eat it straight away. It took a while of “looking” at the fruit before taking and eating it. She also thought about being able to be like God. It would make her “wise”. The Hebrew word is sakal = saw-kal’ (pronounced saw-kal’). Having the meaning of: to be prudent, be circumspect, wisely understand, prosper. To be wise within yourself. To be independent.

    What did she instantly learn? She did not DIE, from eating the fruit. To her, GOD LIED! Adam believed her story and also ate the fruit. They turned their backs on God. They eventually learned that God does not lie. They were evicted from their home and life got rough. Then, they both died. They did not go to heaven. They ceased to exist. What can we learn from this? Listen to Jehovah and His Christ. Learn from their teaching. Learn to wait on Jehovah. Yeah, sometimes it’s hard to wait. Don’t try to get ahead of them.

    Paul wrote to the Roman congregation: “But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance. In like manner, the spirit also joins in with help for our weakness; for the problem is that we do not know what we should pray for as we need to, but the spirit itself pleads for us with unuttered groanings. But the one who searches the hearts knows what the meaning of the spirit is, because it is pleading in harmony with God for the holy ones.” (Rom 8:25-27 NWT )
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm surprised brother that you hang onto 1914 in any form...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    No brother, I'm not hanging on to anything. I'm still waiting. But, as Jesus said, It is not up to us to know the time, day, or hour. With all prophecy, we won't know until after it occurs. :)
    Mt 24:36, 44
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Of course my dear brother you knew I would hold a differing view of this subject... ;) But, from my getting to know you through our years of correspondence, I believe that's why you worded it as you did, it invites a welcome discourse. :) So with that said, I can't pass up the opportunity to reply to the perspective.

    As you may know, I believe our Lords prophets on earth will know what is coming before it happens.

    Amos 3:7 "For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing Unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets."

    As well, I've commented on Mt 24 many times as it pertains to not knowing the "day or hour", so I'll reiterate. Our Lord was referring to the festival of Rosh Hashanah, it being the holiday no one knew the "day or hour", given the new moon would be spotted over a two day period.

    Yes, our Father was the only one who knew when that holiday would be fulfilled when our Lord spoke those words, but there is nothing to say that this still is the case. In light of Amos 3:7, I would have to say that the "day or hour" would not come unless our Lords prophets knew in advance what was to come, none the less our Lords knowledge of events as they near.

    As to prophecy being understood only after events occur, I will have to direct you to Biblical precedence, and ask you if this has always been the case. How has our Father handled prophetic events to occur on a world stage, as it pertains to human foreknowledge?

    All love in the service of Gods kingdom...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    OK Bro,
    Prophecy = “thing spoken or written by a prophet”.
    In the Hebrew, there are 4 different words which are translated as prophesy, prophesying. They are not always translated as “prophecy/prophesy”. It depends on which word is used within the subject. They are chazah, naba’, anbly’, and nataph. Each is used differently depending on the subject and setting. It also depends whether it is also a metaphor.

    One example is chazah = khaw-zaw', “The word which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.” ( Isa 2:1 NASB )
    Who say to the seers, ‘You must not see visions’; And to the prophets, ‘You must not prophesy to us what is right, Speak to us pleasant words, Prophesy illusions.’” ( Isa 30:10 NASB )

    In the Greek, there is prophetes and pseudoprophetes: prophet and false prophet. We already know what false prophets do: they lie. So, let’s consider prophetes - (prof-ay'-tace). It is a compound of pro = before, plus phemi (fay-mee'), to make known one’s thoughts, to declare, to say.

    “‘When Israel was a boy, then I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.’” ( Hosea 11:1 )

    “‘. . .and he stayed there until the decease of Herod, for that to be fulfilled which was spoken by Jehovah through his prophet, saying: ‘Out of Egypt I called my son.’” ( Mt 2:15 NWT )
    “‘Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill;’”
    ( Mt 5:17 NWT ) The scripture in Hosea is quoted, and applied by Jesus in Mt 5:17. The prophecy did not come true until it had occurred. In other words, it was fulfilled. It happened. This is just one precedence.

    Another fulfillment was pointed out by Peter, when those assembled at Pentecost spoke in different languages. “On the contrary, this is what was said through the prophet Joel, ‘ “And in the last days,” God says, “I shall pour out some of my spirit upon every sort of flesh, and YOUR sons and YOUR daughters will prophesy and YOUR young men will see visions and YOUR old men will dream dreams; and even upon my men slaves and upon my women slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.” ( Acts 2:16-18 NWT ) Another precedent. The prophecy was fulfilled. Another was the baptism of Jesus by John. There were many observers who dismissed the event because they did not believe Jesus was the foretold messiah, even when it was pointed out to them. Even when he performed miracles.

    These bible events show that “This has always been the case.” With all prophecy, we won’t know until after it occurs.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    We may be speaking of two different matters. Quite literally prophecy cannot be fulfilled unless it is first disclosed before hand. A prophecy must be established before the event occurs for it to even be a prophecy, therefore men are given foresight by God in every instance of prophecy, before that event occurs. Now, it's fulfillment is not seen till after it is fulfilled, but non-the-less in most cases men know exactly when a prophecy is to be fulfilled before it happens.

    Yes there have been instances that prophecy is understood to be fulfilled at a certain time after the fact, but even in such cases the men who wrote down those prophecies were given the foreknowledge of those events.

    Now to my ultimate statement of prophecy on "a world stage"; Precedence in Scripture is that world climatic fulfillment of prophecy has always been given to prophets (pre-fulfillment) so they may disclose that information to others on a world stage before said prophecies fulfillment.

    In my summation... ;)
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I can claim to be a prophet. Of course, not from Jehovah. Way back in 1970 I was given the opportunity for a scholarship in Journalism. My professor gave my name to the Oakland Tribune. They were offering a full scholarship for full 4 years at a university of my choice, in California.

    During the interview I made a prophesy about newspapers. I told the representative that I would use the scholarship to study radio, television, and whatever new technology developed. I said that the majority of people would rather have someone read, or show them what was considered “news”. I added, “The future of newspapers will be done away with. They will go out of business because people are not interested in reading the news. They will chose to watch it on TV, or listen to it on the radio. Most likely there will be some other form used in the future.”

    Well, guess what I didn’t get? Yeah, no scholarship. Another guess. The Oakland Tribune does not exist now. Oakland has a population estimated at 405,000 in 2014.
    “The Oakland Tribune was a daily newspaper published in Oakland, California, by the Bay Area News Group, a subsidiary of MediaNews Group. From 2010 to 2016, it was published as an edition of the BANG flagship newspaper, the San Jose Mercury News. (Wikipedia)
    Owner: Digital First Media First issue date: 1874 Ceased publication: April 4, 2016

    The San Jose Mercury News is the fifth-most-circulated newspaper in the US (527,568 average circulation).
    The Bay Area has a population of over 7 million people in nine counties and 101 cities. That makes The Mercury News circulation at 7% of the Bay Area population. And, of that population, how many are children who would possibly subscribe? :eek: :p
     

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