Israel, Pope & Temple Mount Agreement.

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by Shikinah, Mar 21, 2014.

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    Shikinah

    Shikinah Member

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    I have found the news concerning Israel proposing to sign over the Temple amount to the pope very interesting, will this be in fulfilment with Daniels prophesy 9:27? The talks are based upon fundamental agreement which is an authorised contract, that vatican demands that Israel gives the pope legal custody of temple mount while within the borders of Israel. The contract also gives the pope full authority and that this will be incorporated into Israel's own laws. Once this is signed he will have a position as king and control, this is suppose to set the stage for the seven year agreement. The pope makes another visit in May this year who knows the significance? Also this April 15th has it's first full blood moon which falls on the Jewish passover. This is supposedly a once in a century event, the first blood moon is suppose to represent the first sign of alarm to Israel and this generation as a sign of coming judgement. Not even six weeks later do we have the pope of Rome in May making his first historic trip to Israel..
    Is this all mere coincidence or in fulfilment with prophesy?

    http://youtu.be/Qt9kEQB4ti8
     
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    Shikinah

    Shikinah Member

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    Not sure if the video is working? Also I miss quoted Daniel 9 as this prophesy has already been fulfilled in Christ, but many who are unaware of scripture try to pin these events to Daniel 9:27 which I personally feel serves a sinister agenda.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    You are correct. I can think of many theories tied to Daniel 9:27 that simply have no scriptural basis. It's simply one of those scriptures people take completely out of context without any concern for it's original fulfillment and just apply some 7 year end time theory to it.

    The context, original text, and it's first fulfillment show a completely different story. The "many" is Israel, and that term has been used many times throughout scripture. Now, in the first century that would have been the literal nation. In our day it's the spiritual Israel. The "he" that confirms a covenant is Jehovah. It was the messianic covenant that Jehovah promised and fulfilled when Jesus was baptized. In our day that will be the moment Jesus is enthroned. Half of the week in the first century was when Jesus was sacrificed. That week ended when Cornelius was baptized and the gentiles were offered into the covenant and it was no longer just for the "Many" (Israel). In the time of the end, those weeks will literally be weeks and not years. That last 70th week will be 7 days long. Jesus is enthroned, three and a half days later the two witnesses will be killed. At the end of that week they will be resurrected and there will be an announcement to the world to serve Jehovah and do not receive the mark of the beast. So basically an offer to the rest of the world to survive the end.

    The following exert was copied from my thread "70 Weeks".

    “And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week;" (Dan 9:27a)

    Here we get into that 70th week, and some very interesting prophetic significance. What is this "Covenant" that is held in force for the many for one week? Let's brake it down. Another way to render this scripture is as such; "when he shall confirm the covenant during many weeks." Also, "And in the end of the week." Agreeing with the Septuagint we read, "the covenant shall prevail for the many during one week". So basically this scripture is saying that Jehovah confirms his covenant to Israel by bringing the Messiah. This is basically a confirmation that this is the moment of the coming Prince, which of course would have been seen the moment Jesus was baptized. It is the covenant to Israel that is completed and held in place for one week. This 70th week began at Jesus baptism and continues it's discussion in the remaining part of the verse.

    "and at the half of the week, he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease."
    (Dan 9:27a)

    This "sacrifice and gift offering" that was to cease was the sacrifices and offerings in the Temple. This would have been symbolic of Jehovah's will because Jesus blood once and for ever atoned for human sin and he became that perfect sacrifice at the end of the three and a half years of his ministry. No longer were animal sacrifices needed in order to atone for sin. The end of this week as pointed out by the "Insight Volumes" occurred when the covenant was extended outside the "many" to include the rest of the world when Cornelius become a Christian three and a half years after Jesus's sacrifice.
     
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    Shikinah

    Shikinah Member

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    Thank you brother what you wrote, explains Daniel 9:27 very well.
    The next scripture I'm interested in and want to know if it is a future fulfilment is Daniel 11:31-32


    "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation. 32"By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action.33"Those who have insight among the people will give understanding to the many; yet they will fall by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plunder for many days. 34"Now when they fall they will be granted a little help, and many will join with them in hypocrisy. When they fall, they will receive a little help, and many who are not sincere will join them. Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.
    "The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.


    1) Who is he who musters up these forces?
    2) What is the sanctuary fortress? & how will they defile it?
    3) What are the daily sacrifices? and if this is after Jesus death why would sacrifices still be taking place?
    4) What is the "abomination of desolation" which they replace instead of the daily sacrifice?
    5)
    "Those who do wickedly against the covenant" what is the covenant ? and who are they that act wickedly against it?
    6) Who are the ones who have insight among the people, be plundered and taken captive?
    7) How will many join them in hypocrisy?
    8) Who are the ones that may be refined and made spotless until the time of the end?
    9) What is the appointed time in which it will come?
    10) The king who does as he pleases and sets himself above every God, does this tie in with 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4 where it says..

    Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.5Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?…

    Sorry for so many questions, I just want to get an understanding as to what is future fulfilment and time frame it fits into, so that i can have a clearer understanding.


    Thank you
    Shikinah




     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    No problem, you are after all talking about my favorite subjects... You ask a very good question, and one that we have been conversing about here on our db lately.

    I'm going to use the translation you are using, although I prefer to use the NWT because I am use to using the terms within. However, in this case I will refer to your translation and at times place in the terms used by the NWT.

    To your questions. Without going into to much depth of how the identifications of each entities are ID'd, I'm going to simply answer straight up using the identity of each spoken instead of using term to term definitions. If I were to go into how we know each entity is said entity I am sure I would reach the word limit in a single post.

    The NWT uses "arms" here. Basically these are those who will physically come against Jehovah's earthly spiritual Jerusalem to shut down the Society. To send them into captivity. These will most likely be the International Court Of Justice out of the UN.

    The NWT says they will remove the "constant feature". Now in 66CE what was removed was the sacrifices for Rome and its emperor at the Temple. Today it will be the removal of the Watchtower magazine and the society itself. The Watchtower is the entity pronouncing the kingdom to the world. The constant feature is the daily spiritual food from the society.

    There were sacrifices at the temple up until it was destroyed in 70CE, and it was still called by Jehovah his holy place. Although the moment Jesus was sacrificed was when those sacrifices were no longer needed. These sacrifices, or "constant feature" today is the Watchtower magazine and the society itself.

    The UN is the abomination of desolation. However they do not "replace instead of the daily sacrifice." Daniel 11:31 is simply telling you this entity will act out both events, however they do not occur at the same moment, they are in fact 1290 days apart. That's what we read in Daniel 12:11. “And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days." These two events are actually separated by 1290 days. So the daily sacrifices were removed then 1290 days later the abomination will be set up. Daniel 11:31 is only telling you this entity commits these two acts.

    This is speaking of the man of lawlessness and those with him. Those who will be doing things that cause the UN to come against the society to shut it down. The covenant is Jehovah's messianic covenant with the current Israel in the form of the WTS.

    These are you and I. These are the ones like us here on the DB who know the truth about the truth. It will be our job to bring the truth to others after the society goes down. And to bring back Jesus bride to him. Although we will be in captivity to Babylon along with every other one of Jehovah's people because at that time there will be no society on earth made up of his people.

    I believe this is an error in translating. So I will use the NWT here. "But when they are made to stumble, they will be given a little help; and many will join with them by means of smooth speech." These are ones who will associate with us in the end because of the words we share with them. We will be able to share with them the things we are discussing right now and that will bring many back to Jehovah.

    All of Jehovah's people.

    From the moment the WTS is no more until Jesus is enthroned will be 1260 days.

    No, these are two separate entities. The king that sets himself above every God is the Eighth king, and the one that will come against Gods people after they come back from captivity. The MOL sits in the temple waiting to be revealed and will be a Governing Body member just as Judas was.

    :D
     
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    Shikinah

    Shikinah Member

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    Thank you brother for the interpretation, I see why you translate from the the NWT it's much clearer.
    I often forget that the whole of bible prophesy about end times is focusing on Jehovahs people. Sometimes I find it hard to comprehend the world acknowledging the collapse of the Watchtower as any big deal. Will the world understand the implications
    or just see us as a bunch of hypercritical heretics who should have been done away with anyway?
    This is how I see it and I may be wrong.
    Satan has an agenda and and he always tries to run it along the same time line as Jehovah.
    I think while what you explained is going on, satan will have people focus their attention on literal Israel, he will cause something to take place which will also cause Jehovahs people to question their faith as to whether it was right all along.
    I think this will be the great delusion which many will fall for if possible even the chosen ones.
    Satan will attempt to mislead the remaining anointed in receiving the mark, because Jehovahs people will be abandoned, which will be a prime time for satan to make his move.
    It may be a load of mumbo jumbo, but from what I see literal Israel will be used to deceive the world while the true focus is only recognised by the ones having insight, this is where the two witnesses should make an entrance but in what form I'm yet to understand.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    No one will understand it but us. The world will have accomplished something they had wanted to do long ago, get rid of the Witnesses. Nothing more. There will be no understanding on the whole about prophetic events.

    The very next prophecy to come about will be “He will go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenant." There will be a moment 965 days before the WTS goes down that we will see errors of the WTS in the news. So we will know a few years before it goes down that it's coming.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Epic, Joshua.

    I'm not 100% sure of your (our) view, but I think it fits.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Keep in mind, when answering Shikinah I tried to keep it to the point as possible. The prophecy's she asked about would cover more then a single post to identify each entity through time. All entities are traced back to the original Babylon through scripture, and all interpretation belongs to Jehovah. What we want to know is exactly what that book says.

    With that said, it's an exciting time brother, and I'm grateful we are all here together! Let's pray to Jehovah that his spirit be with us, and his will take place here...!
     
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    Shikinah

    Shikinah Member

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    Thank you for your explanation, I guess the scriptures do say that those having insight will understand, it will be clearer once we see things unfold. When I get time I will look into it some more.
     

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