Jehovah's Witnesses and Denmark

Discussion in 'In The News' started by panda, Jul 27, 2013.

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    Poetry of Providence

    Poetry of Providence Active Member

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    Whoa aaa , that's some pretty poisonous stuff being preached.
    The magnifying glass exposing the hatred others suffer daily
    and are in fear of are likely to end up (eventually) in the ICC .
    I can openly see how any "christian" group could be brought
    under trial and punishment for such vindictive and vitriolic
    speech towards those not sustaining support of these segments
    of the population . (not that many "defectors" aren't exactly
    practicing what they have been subjected to likewise) But these
    little pockets of protest are nothing like the "major leaders" of a
    religion of 7.something million strong publicly maliciously maligning
    those who choose not to do the same to others ...Choosing to
    use the same practices of the "Westboro Baptist Church" may
    bring them even under a more investigative "eye" by the governments.
    While on the one hand maintaining a fight for "religious" freedom
    and on the other maintaining the appearance of a seething faction
    of hatred towards those not inclined to approve of their practices ..
    My grandmother would have used the word "nastiness" towards
    this kind of rhetoric from a "religious group" ...
     
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    Shikinah

    Shikinah Member

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    Every time I think it can't get any worse there's something new. It's almost like the org has a death wish. I can't believe the venom that they are preaching. Shouldn't the message be PRAY for these individual to have a change of heart.
    Hatred when sown it is like a cancer it just grows, and is more productive than love because we are already in a sinful state. Jehovah says hate what is bad the actual actions. Not everyone who leaves the truth hate Jehovah and his son, the majority I have spoken to have issues with policies, false prophesies and personal injustices. It's getting to the stage where I'm scared to bring people into the org, because of all the negative info which is coming to light in the media.
     
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    what I see is so paranoid with the Gb is they don't say what it is these aposates have issues with, they paint them all with the same brush, as you said some have issues, imagine if your child was sexually abused and they did nothing, really they are in so much fear of exposure this is what I get.

    That sort of talk could incite a crazy to go shoot what they believe are apostates, this is very dangerous talk, and they appear like a cult when they come on like this.

    It is hard enough to got out to preach knowing that not all they teach is truth, and its hard going to the KH knowing that if one says the wrong thing out of place your marked and with all this talk it only serves to create hostility, and suspicion over the slightest thing one may say that is not in line with the organization, it is breeding parania and hate, thos that you are close to become your enemies over night and for what a disageement.

    Scary stuff this!
     
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    oh and we are inviting r/v's and the general public to this convention, I for one hope they don't show up, its not only embarrassing worse it paints Jehovah out to be this hateful God that approves of this kind of venom, coming from those that call themselves a loving org, what sort of witness is this!!:mad:
     
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    Thanks Wallflower:)
    This along with the potential 33 billion pound law suit against them, is just the beginning of what's to come.
    And as you said Panda, how are we to preach, who will want to join a society who speaks such hatred? because if I was joining the truth for the first time and reading about all this it would definitely appear as a cult. What I want to know is, when the watchtower falls, and Jehovah's name is dragged through the mud, how will we be able to continue to preach in his name who will associate it with anything good, that is my worry. Now I'm starting to really understand the purpose of the man of lawlessness and it is so sad it makes me feel sick to the stomach.
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Dear sister POP,

    Please, what's the ICC ? :confused:

    International Criminal Court ? or something else which I never heard of ?
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Dear sister POP,

    I totally agree with you.

    That kind of rhetoric is unthinkable and even surreal from people who pretend to be God's channel on earth and also the group destined since always to be the FDS appointed by his master to provide substancial spiritual food at the proper time, to spearhead mankind, along with their other anointed brothers, into God's kingdom and even incarnate very soon Jesus' majesty and God's promises before the universe's figurative eyes !

    My my my !

    How can sensible and reasonable people utter such things as religious official teaching on a worldwide scale ? That's beyond me ! They remind me of the sorcerer's apprentice. They look and sound like kids having huge powers and playing haphazardly with them, not even being aware of the significance of their deeds and of their potential consequences in the lives and minds of millions of individuals.

    Although that's questionable, I would have understood a situation in which mere angry and reckless individuals may have said such things... but from official religious leaders ? That's staggering !

    Besides being egregious, such messages are totally anti-Christian.

    "“YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU;" - Mat. 5:43-44

    "But, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals upon his head.â€" - Rom. 12:20 (Prov. 25:21)

    "Continue to love YOUR enemies, to do good to those hating YOU, to bless those cursing YOU, to pray for those who are insulting YOU." - Luke 6:27-28

    "“Moreover, stop judging, and YOU will by no means be judged; and stop condemning, and YOU will by no means be condemned. Keep on releasing, and YOU will be released." - Luke 6:37

    "For the one that does not practice mercy will have [his] judgment without mercy. Mercy exults triumphantly over judgment." - James 2:13

    "Go, then, and learn what this means, ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.â€" - Mat. 9:13

    Even the parable of the Good Samaritan condemns indirectly those ignominious statements !

    Unfortunately, said statements aren't the first ones and they're also just the outward expression of long-standing opinions. They don't pray for their enemies, they curse them !

    Other religious leaders would come out with similar diatribes against them, they'd step into the breach, act like butter wouldn't melt in their mouths and cry foul ! Yuck !
     
  10. Hi all:

    Excellent comment Utuna! These men who either wrote or ultimately approved of this outline are the same ones who claim to be the Faithful and Discrete Slave of the Master. Yet, what portion of this venom is either "faithful" or "discrete"? Clearly, by their fruits you will know them. These appear to be more like "thorns" and "thistle" to me! They are imposters, slanderers just as Judas was. They are weeds who have lost their faith or perhaps they have been imposters all the time. You choose.

    frank
     
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    Poetry of Providence

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    Utuna

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    Jesus said :

    "Offspring of vipers, how can YOU speak good things, when YOU are wicked? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." - Mat. 12:34

    Who was he talking to, back then ? Apostates ? How did he talk to Judas Iscariot, their epitome ?

    Paul was labelled as such :

    "For, say they: “[His] letters are weighty and forceful, but [his] presence in person is weak and [his] speech contemptible." - 2 Cor 10:10

    Are the self-proclaimed FDS' letters as weighty and forceful as Paul's * ? That's the question ! Furthermore, Paul was keenly aware of the role of the whole body of Christ, back then just like during the time of the end !

    * Interestingly, Paul's letters were and are obviously still weighty and forceful despite him complaining that his readers, although anointed too, were often fleshly and spiritually unlearned. Even when he was speaking like a fleshly man (Rom3:5; 6:19; 1Cor6:5), and was trying to explain things on fleshly grounds to fleshly b/s, his words were nonetheless still weighty and forceful. Why would the official and ultimate FDS be any less striking in his reasoning and argumentation ?
     
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    In spite of these exchanges and considerations , I know what
    strong words in Jude's letter to describe the acts and punishment
    of those who although they know the true judgment of God
    defile themselves and others ..What strong words , what condemnation
    but even in this letter Michael the archangel did not slander him who
    is our greatest adversary , but choose to leave the matter in the hands
    of the one who would judge him on the day of our Lord ..yet those
    words were not be expressed until he who has the "right" to judge
    takes that power and uses it . I find it difficult sometimes to fully
    understand and embrace the glory and severity of judgment , of which
    Jehovah of the Hebrew scriptures fully attest to , I find it greatly
    easier to embrace the kindly quality of grace so preciously displayed
    in our appointed Master and Lord ..and how the marriage between
    Love and judgment have found a perfect union . I hate judging yet
    I find myself in the place of using it when considering such paths as
    presented in this discussion of our responsibilities to reflect the kindly
    quality of God in dealing with the broken of humanity and the intention
    to repair the break between us . Funny Utuna that the seven page
    letter written to the Local leaders here covered nearly everyone of the
    verses you quoted in addition to the prodigal son parable . My only
    out is that this age is not the age of judgment but of reconciliation
    where we are only advised to "avoid" those who continue in such
    activities until the judge appointed takes his seat in the Court ..
    Whereas manifestly we ourselves who have explored the good Word
    of God and seek to implement it as fully as our understanding and
    spirit will allow , find ourselves taking part in the activity of judgment.
    The finality of the matter in digression is that we become intent in
    determination to reflect the kindly quality that others can embrace
    as evidence of the truth a love so circumspect that others cannot
    deny its fruit which for me is a struggle at times of definition . For as
    one who has raised children knows that punishment and pain is only
    a temporary solution for "children" (law) when a child grows up the
    time outs and understanding and rewards are done in love if one wants
    results .. So any help or encouragement I can find here will help
    considerably my pursuit of maintaining and strengthening these things..
    Kick me please in the right direction ....
     
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    Thinking

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    Yeah, me too.
    we really will be wearing sackcloths, it's going to be so hard as we have to bear what they have done in Jehovah's name.
    take the punishment alongside those who deserve it, much like Joshua and Caleb had to in the wilderness.
    which personally, I would have had a hard time swallowing......an extra 40 years because of that stiff necked lot!

    your right tho, we are starting to see how it's going to go down.
    its going to take everything we have got to keep standing in Jehovah's name....no wonder many will flee from it in shame and disappointment and fear.
    i guess this will really be our endurance put to the test.
    at least we all here will know we are ever closer to the end.......the harder it gets the closer we will be, he will certainly be refining us and our loyalty surely will be tested to the hilt.
    the thing is...we probably won't have our bibles or sites like these to encourage us along.
    It really will just be us and Jah......so we really really!!!!! Need to get to know him like our own skin.....awesome times and who of us here are so strong not to be scared.
    im scared...worried...I don't want to fail him or my family......such a huge responsibility.
    still I guess we have a head start...just knowing the tatt and still being here...still serving and believing ......we have not been stumbled..so hey! We have got thru the first stage.
     
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    Hello Thinking,
    Thank you for reminding me about that bible account. I personally can't go on field service, so I usually do my preaching on-line. And I have been concentrating on those who have been stumbled and left the truth, this is how I have come across what's going on within the organisation, and the more I hear the more disturbing it gets. I couldn't sleep last night I had two hours sleep. I had listened to two accounts of suicide. One was a young brother who had a motor bike accident while unconscious they gave him blood, when he told they elders the didn't believe him and because of the pressure he took his life. Another brothers sister took her life because she felt she couldn't cope any more. Another sister posted saying how depressed she was and spent her life crying and felt no love.

    I cried for a while, and said Jehovah how long? How do I tell these individuals family members to return to the organisation that drove their family to such despair? All I can say is praise Jah for Roberts and Perimenos site, they hae helped me no end, and I direct lost ones there for answers. What I have found in the org, is that people either love it, or are moaning and groaning, there doesn't seem to be a middle road. It reminds me of that scripture were it says "My people love it that way" some really haven't got a clue and that in itself is scary.
    As you said it is really going to take some endurance, many will be totally lost and not no where to turn, as I know my bible study teacher has already told me that she would find it hard to function without the org, it's all she has ever known, she speaks of it as her fortress. I try and sneakily let her know things, but she is totally deluded. When I see this it frightens me because the org has become a false sense of security for many, it will be total horror when all is revealed.
    As the bible says, I have pangs of reality and fear of what's coming and this is confirmed when I preach to the worldly ones. Their hate for religion is frightening, they want it gone despite knowing that the world is on the brink of collapse, I get verbally attacked all the time, this never use to be this bad, they blame religion for everything, so we can see how the people of the world and some of Jehovahs people will embrace the false peace and security as their only hope.
    All we can do like you said is see this is our refining, draw close as possible to Jehovah and his son, and pray constantly for the Holy Spirit to give us strength to endure to the end. While we are on this forum, we need to spend precious time building each other up as we wont have this opportunity for long, we are truly blessed to have this opportunity to speak these things so freely, I pray we will be able to put what we know to use to help our brother and sisters when there going to need it most.

    Sisterly Love
    Shikinah x
     
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    Thinking

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    Hi Shikinah,

    That poor sister saying she will be lost if it was not for the org.
    was she a born in?
    i came from the world and I'm actually glad of that.......I could see the faults with the org even then...so it hasn't such a death grip on me.
    a tight grip for sure to the point it messes with your mind and you have to undo a lot of wrong thinking...like disloyalty to the org is disloyalty to Jah.
    which up to a point is true...and that's where it gets messy......we have to figure out....up to what point!!!!
    i really feel for that sister and ones like her and I would say that's the bulk of our brothers and sisters. They are being THOURGHLY DECEIVED.

    As for the ones you are helping and the increase of suicide and depression.
    that is a global epidemic, and no one can have a hope of understanding unless they have experienced it. To be in the truth as well adds a heavy burden as they feel like they are a worthless brother or sister. The org has come along way but just how it is structured and how our meetings are structured..the way we get taught from the platform ......encouraging us to do more...brothers to reach out...be consistent..reports...conventions....far too much for depressed persons to feel guilty about.......for many, staying alive is all they can try to do!

    how to encourage them back to the org, I took a page out of your book and made these ones my field service ( thanks for that ). I try to explain how the org has gone astray relevant to their sad position they now find themselves in.
    thanks to Robert and Perimeno and the understanding they have given me.
    mainly thanks to Jah because he sure has opened my eyes to things which is more exciting than I can ever explain.
    Some just don't seem to have the strength but I guess we just help them anyway we can.
    latley with one I just say to them..just start reading your bible again, read it like you would a novel...really get into the characters, that may be all they can really do.

    All those calling on the Jehovah's name will be saved.
    thos words sound simple and easy to do but How hard will that really be in the time of the end.
    There's got to be more to those words than we really understand at this moment in time.

    Will we be like Daniel....under the threat of death just for praying?
    will we also be under the threat of death for mentioning his name...will they ban his name globally.....ahhh the things ahead of us....what interesting things we will have to tell our ancestors in the new world of things...to tell our new children and grandchildren.

    You have lots of good works shikinah and have encouraged me along the way.
    you must keep going as I want to meet you personally, as I do all the brothers and sisters here. I too feel sick at times with what is coming but
    i have a massive incentive to succeed ..for I know I will have my boy back........so many good good times ahead sis.

    Love sis thinking
     
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    wallflower

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    I look forward to meeting everyone on the forum, in person, too. I guess there will come a time when the Internet will not be available, so we need to make the most of the opportunities now to encourage each other and build each other up.
     
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    Utuna

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    Dear Thinking,

    Please read : "And Jehovah will answer and say to his people, ‘Here I am sending to YOU the grain and the new wine and the oil, and YOU people will certainly be satisfied with it; and I shall not make YOU anymore a reproach among the nations." - Joel 2:19

    The GB may have a lot of things to account for when their Master comes but the Israel of God, Christ's body, is made up of many parts... and many DFd/DAed self-righteous and self-proclaimed FDS-like anointed ones (Luke18:9,14) will unexpectedly fall from grace and will take a hiding just like the other ones at that point. Many of them are so smug and sure to fulfill God's will that when reality smashes against their noses, it's going to be a huge awakening bugle call ! The GB will just be a bunch of men, among many other ones, to be chastised because we still don't know what the future holds in that regard. As quoted above, prophecies foretell that God's people (the anointed ones as a whole) will become a reproach among the nations and that their sins will make Jehovah's name smell like a stench in the "eyes" of the nations. They might do unthinkable things, foretell utterly nonsensical biblical interpretations, bring discredit upon themselves and bring reproach on Jehovah's name in unimaginable ways. Who will want to trust them again after what will have happened ? That is their horrendous sins and their rout when the Northerner strikes... Even among the JWs, many already have ruled them out of their belief system. No wonder Jesus had doubts whether he'd find faith on earth or not when he comes back... (Luke18:8)

    Before they're given real responsabilities and power, many anointed ones will bite the dust, and more than once...
     
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    Hi Utuna hope you are well over there with the turmoil around you in Europe .
    ummmm you will have to forgive me but did you want me to read joel to show me he will come to the rescue of his shamed people before the end. So therefore giving us the grain and new oil etc.

    Yes I do beleive that, sorry if I gave the impression that I didn't .
    i was describing the events up to that point when as you say Jehovah's name will be like a stench, it will be hard to stand with head erect and loyall.

    Just another point I'd like to quiz you on, I cannot copy and past but when you said...EVEN AMONG JWS MANY OF THEM HAVE RULED THEM OUT OF THEIR BELEIF SYSTEM........were you talking about the GB.

    Its just that in my cong that's not the case, they are put on high and to be obeyed and never questioned.
    this is the only cong I have known so if this is what is happening in your neck of the woods I find it amazing. That B/S have actually talked amongst themselves like this.
    its not like that here, I wish it was.
    so many over here just do not seem to know anything.
    maybye they are too scared too.

    Thanks sis thinking
     
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    I have found that no one I have talked ever mention the anointed other than the FDS and now that is the GB only, the anointed other than the GB have never had any sort of recongnistion, and now that the GB is the only FDS its like they alone are the only anointed as prayers are always thanking Jehovah for the FDS, which we know now is the GB by their new teaching, but I doubt if they will say we thank Jehovah for the GB, who knows it may even get that out right idolatrous.

    and I agree most do not have a clue, they only read the WT and get their interpretation before ever looking at the scriptures.
     

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