Hi Jan

(Because in Revelation it clearly says that the beast will require that people worship it.)

.....I don't understand ..how that's going to happen....but when it does...we will all have that ..aaaah...moment..and think....of course!...why couldn't we see this before.....that's all satan wanted from Jesus....just ONE...just ONE act of worship.....

this encouraging ones to leave the org is not the way to go...but I know with many here I am just whistling in the wind....Jehovah will take care of the corruption just like he has always done......it's not our fight ..it's his ...at least we are seeing developments....the writing is on the wall.....just a little longer now......a little more endurance .....

i used to to wonder about all this warning of idolatry too.......but now the pieces of the jigsaw are coming together.... At Last!!!!,

 

Hi Joe,

l understand apostacy to mean much more. Apostacy is abandoning Jehovah God or rebelling against him. Not just making wrong things due to lack of understanding.

What is now occurring in the Watchtower organization, with incompetent elders and all the hierarchy up to the GB is something similar to how it was in Israel in the days when Jesus begun his ministry.
They had the temple, the daily sacrifices, the synagogues where the scriptures where read and commented etc.

And Jesus told them, they would not have sin if he had not come and taught them.

John 15:22-24
22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin.+ But now they have no excuse for their sin.+ 23 Whoever hates me also hates my Father.+ 24 If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would have no sin;+ but now they have both seen me and hated me as well as my Father.

So in view of that the Watchtower organization could well have an excuse for their error. Likewise many other churches.

But Jesus will come to cleanse the spiritual temple according to Malachi 3: 1 And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; ...

Then it will be made very clear what ones position is in regard to faithfulness toward God or apostacy.
The beast will require that everyone will worship the image of the beast and take the mark of the beast.

The events will be so clear that you can not not recognize what the image of the beast is and what the mark of the beast is. It will fit the biblical description so well that nobody will have an excuse when they take the mark of the beast.

Then you can start to talk about true apostacy.

 

That was interesting that you also had been wondering about this.

 

Hi SingleCell,
Yes I agree much in your conclusions. And really the whole Christian system of churches seems to be the house of God. They are not worse than the Israelites in ancient times. And they are not that bad as pictured by the competing WT organization.
A few years ago I went for the first time out of curiosity to both the catholic and protestant church a couple of times to see and hear how their meetings are conducted.
Well it was not so bad as I expected. They both preached some good lessons from the bible and sung praises to God, and did some bible reading etc.

But of course all these christian religions organizations are infested with much error, but in the same time they are spreading some Bible knowledge.
I would not make any difference for the Catholic church either.

But I think all these christian religious organizations will as organizations go along with the "superior authorities" the beast, when the time comes.

Br Jackson's attitude was quite revealing in the pedophile hearing in Australia, where he assured that GB would report to the authorities about pedophiles if only the government will require that.

Remarkable also that WT has not dealt with "conspiracy theories", and has not wrote anything revealing about Illuminati and freemasonry.

Seems that they purposedly avoid such subjects so that they will stay in good light as an organization towards the superior authorities.

So it raises questions about how much they fear to displease the beast?

 

Yes, they are all spiritual sins. When one joins what amounts to a membership in the United Nations of Non-Kingdom Organizations, it is the spiritual apostasy of leaving the "holy covenant" for a Kingdom. They chose to promote the 3rd UN presentation in New World Order mantra mode (Awake! 9/8/1991), rather than tell JWs and the world it is as foretold in prophecy as the first two UN presentations. (Dan11:31b, Dan8:23)

They bypassed that revelation of the real King North who they joined in Daniel 11:30-32a.

Ever wonder why the GB WILL NOT explain who King North must be as 8th King world government as SIMPLE as it is?

Because they have joined that 8th Kingdom instead.

Now the physical sins of the Pedo Files of Bethel policy are just globally understandable cherry on top of the Hot Fudged Bethel Sundae of Apostasy. Christendom did the same thing in 1921 with the League of Nations, while also denying it was prophecy fulfilled, and those Christendom global councils were founded by JP Morgan as the Rothschilds formed the "Israel" global religious Zionist counterpart.

Thus Bethel's liquid asset billions are in the same "King North" banks, so they are couped from within, as per propehcy, and it is LED BY KING NORTH inside of Bethel's GB, shadow boards, and WTS infiltrations:

(Daniel 11:32) “And those who are acting wickedly against [the] covenant(at Bethel), he (8th King/King North) will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. (The Bethel "smooth words" 8th King cover-up in the JW publications ispart of the smoothly justified apostasy);

So no wonder Apostate Bethel will not explain their role in Daniel 11:30-35, nor in Daniel 8:11-14, as the whole ministry is now in the "wrong condition". (See Dan8:14)

And it gets worse, instead of explaining this is the covert Daniel 11:41 infiltration "entry of the Decoration", that will go overt in WTBTS sacking as the visible portion of apostasy (Dan8:13), they have JWs OVER ADVANCED to Daniel 11:44, so JWs will think Bethel sacking is "the end of the world!". (2Thess2:1-2) And that is allowed by keeping the USSR=King North error unaddressed for who King North really is: 8th King globalist elite world government engineers.

Now they can sack Bethel, and just tell JWs it is "the end", rather than Daniel 11:40-43 going full blown, as marked by Bethel invasion going full blown, as set up from within, as Daniel 11:41. NO WAY did the USSR fulfill anything in Daniel 11, but the failure of Daniel 11:27 "but nothing will succeed", because the 8th King, as per Daniel 11:36, is who is "successful until the denunciations comes to a finish" at Armageddon as Daniel 11:45, Daniel 12:11 parallel final world government "placement" of "palatial tents".

THAT is how serious the UN NGO really is.

They have allied with King North in also cover up and JW subversion (Dan8:12), and anti-JW-org operations globally, aided from within. In reality there will be FOUR UN presentations, UN 1-2-3-4, 1919, 1945, 1990 and the future.

Since JWs have not understood the 3rd UN placement of 1990, they have no idea about UN 3-4 requirement. Now the 7th King required downfall (Dan11:42-43) and global crisis "tribulation of those days", which enables full 8th King world government "rise" (Rev11:7; Rev17:8-12), can be sold to JWs AS IF it is "the end of the world brothers!!!!".

It's a coup that began with 1976 GB cell of internal King North progress inside of Bethel, as per Daniel 11:32a.

That cannot be all accidental coincidence. King North is INSIDE of Bethel now.

 

Yes I agree Daniel 11:40-45 will take years to produce full world government as and after the WTBTS is sacked fully, to whatever degree God requires, but it will be enormous, and thus take some years. (Isa12; Dan8:14)

Right now it seems there is some debate as to whether Daniel 12:11 is a dual criteria simultaneously marked in those two events (as Daniel 11:7), or in sequence with 1290 days "in between":

Jubilee Bible 2000
And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away until the abomination of desolation, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Most translations are implying a concurrent dual event:

King James 2000 Bible
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

American King James Version
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

New World Translation
And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Interlinear:

[ that makes desolate ] [ the abomination ] [ and set up ] [ the daily shall be taken away] [and from the time ] [and ninety two hundred] [ a thousand days]

Which would mean world government "ascending" would depose the final warning in the future (Rev11:7), well after Bethel is done, and the original KN infiltrators have also been destroyed (or expelled) from "in the temple", for a signal to King North (and some in the world, when the GB is possibly vaporized with their "helpers" internal and external), that the game is on (Isa66:6), but well before "the end". It is just the Christ "temple arrival" on trespassers and the Bethel "den of thieves", as an example for King North to well consider.

Imo, the dual criteria is what marks Daniel 12:11 as the period Christ arrives in as Revelation 11:7-12 parallel, under full world government, well after total warning of the ramifications.

But of course it is open to debate. The real events will aid explanation over some final years, so that some people can catch on more fully. In the drawn out process "weeds" are purged, some are visited by purging angels of Christ in covert manner, when the desolation period is expired. (They are in the JW org and get the fair warning prior to "the visit" of Zech3:4-5, Mal3:1-2)

As for the apostates:

(Hosea 9:17) . . .My God will reject them, for they have not listened to him, and they will become fugitives among the nations.


But some may repent.

The temple infiltrators, the fakes, are doomed first, as a sign. But they will also head out to try to escape I gather, but where can one hide right? (Am9:1-3)

Soon it will all go live. The purpose of downing Bethel and their apostates and infiltrators is to secure the final warning. The purpose of signalling King North, is so they can get completely ready (Eze38:7) for war with God.

Of course at this time there are more than a few opinions on all this process.

 

SingleCell, it is true that those books were hit pieces on UN, but these books are not available on the public site online library. In the past WT org was strong in those issues but now it seems they avoid to talk straight about it. And I suspect that is because they try to avoid getting into trouble. With the cost of obscuring the truth.
Look at the case with Russia, first Russia condemned a lot of WT publications as extremist literature, so WT org went along with the supreme authorities and removed those publications from the russian jw.org. But that did not help, the Russian government recently banned jw.org completely.

I watched the whole Br Jackson interrogation at the Australian Royal Commision. And Br Jackson representing the Governing Body did a very weak defense for the truth and the official jw doctrine.
He tried to obscure Governing body's power position, he did not even dare to tell directly that GB regards itself to be the discreet and faithful slave. And he denied that they are God's only spokespeople.

Also when asked about corporal punishment of children, he denied that the Bible approves that.

I was really disappointed of how weak he was on defending the truth and Governing Body's version of the truth.

To me it seems the GB is ready to compromise on many things, instead of taking the fight for the truth.

An other example of that: l went abroad to preach in a former Soviet republic, Latvia and the Latvian government issued a law for boosting Latvian national sentiment, that all buildings have to erect a Latvian flag on certain days. Otherwise a costly penalty world be given. So what did the GB tell the brothers to do concerning private homes, kingdom halls and bethel?
GB wrote to the brothers that it is not a problem from a biblical point of view to put flags on buildings as now required by the Latvian government.

My concience tells that is wrong, when the government requires that you put the flag on the building to boost nationalism, I am definitively against it.

If you just use the flag as an identification of a country it is an other thing, but when it is done to further nationalism it is definitively wrong.

l wonder how far GB is going to go in the present time. Before they, but it was other brothers, they have all died, took the fight in the courts for not saluting the flag and other issues of neutrality.

And the refusal to deal with Illuminati obscures the understanding of Bible prophecy, because they are a major player in the affairs of the world.
How could bible prophecy overlook a such powerful entity? It is there, but it has not been recognized by many including the GB, due to lack of knowledge of what Illuminati represents.

We as fighters for truth should not think of talking about what is popular. We are not striving after becoming popular, but we are fighting for the truth, be it popular or not. Is it not?

 

A+++ to this, what you said was very encouraging, and I feel very much how you feel. thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

Thanks. I am looking at your rationale. My question has been, what if TWO more constant features are yet to be removed? That is what if the profaned version, soon to go down, and the purified version at the end, both yet to be removed, are a possibility?

 

Thats okay Orchid .....that's what this forum is all about hey...to encourage and up build each other....I'm a plane Jane in the truth ...when it comes to dates and times..........some have the gift of chronology and dates and times...and I do view it as a gift......they are there for ones like me...hahaha

just keep hanging in there.....things are developing ....it just takes so darn long doesn't it.....but when we look back on this time period...from the new world.....we will say...wow I wish I had been more patient.......you just don't give up!!!!

sis thinking

 

Hi Jan,

That scenario with the flag could very well happen...that's going to sort a few of us out if it does.....did the GB give scriptural reasons as to why it wasn't a problem .

i mean..is the flag viewed as an idol?????.or is just saluting it and singing to it considered the actual worshiping of it?

Would the flag not be promoting one nation above another ???or better than another?
would we then be able to say we were Politically neutral ?

i wouldn't put one up in my private home....I would consider it a form of idolatry.

i didn't know about this...thanks for the info...as these things need to be considered NOW.....so we are not put on the spot.

thinking

 

So basically the society sold out...but this is what it will eventually come to.....the principle I mean......those that love truth will have to take a stand for it...........even with in the congregations........much much harder than doing it out in the world.....

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[FONT=museo_slab500]NEWS & POLITICS
The Blasphemy of Flag Worship


Can anyone deny that the American flag has achieved the status of a graven image?





In a few days the House of Representatives will overwhelmingly approve, for the sixth time, a Constitutional Amendment to allow Congress to make it a crime to deface the American flag.

In three previous votes, the Senate could not muster the two-thirds majority needed to send the bill to the states for ratification. In 2000, the last time the Senate took up the matter, 63 voted for the amendment, four short of a two-thirds majority. Since then Republicans have picked up five Senate seats. That is why USA Today describes the upcoming vote, scheduled sometime after July 4, as a "cliffhanger."

If Congress passes the amendment, will the states ratify it? Time will tell. But we should recall that every state legislature has passed resolutions urging Congress to send it such an amendment.

We can expect to hear a lot of First Amendment-loving progressives condemn this Congressional initiative as inappropriate and dangerous. I would hope that the Christian right would join the opposition. Not out of a love for the First Amendment, but because of their devotion to the Ten Commandments.

Devout Christians firmly believe that the Ten Commandments should be etched in stone in our courthouses and emblazoned on the walls of every classroom. The message of the Second Commandment is clear. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God..."

Can anyone deny that the American flag has achieved the status of a graven image?

The contention that flag worship is blasphemy was a key element before the Supreme Court in 1940. In that case it upheld the right of a Pennsylvania school district to expel two students who refused to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. The two teenagers were members of the Jehovah's Witness denomination. Their church believed that pledging allegiance to the flag violated the Biblical admonition (Exodus 20) against worshipping or bowing down to any graven image of God. The court decided that the need for national security and national unity allowed Congress to force individuals to violate the Ten Commandments.

In 1943, the Supreme Court reversed its 1940 decision. That reversal probably had less to do with religion than with the Court's realization that, at the height of a war against totalitarian regimes, a central feature of which was a slavish devotion to national symbols, compelling us to worship the flag was inapt. (As a side note, that same year the Flag Code itself was changed. No longer were students required to salute the flag with one arm extended forward. The similarity to the Nazi salute was too embarrassing. From that time onwards, we were told to put our hands over our hearts.)

The evidence that we literally worship the flag is overwhelming. Unique among all nations, we have a Flag Day, a Flag code etiquette, a national anthem dedicated to the flag and a verbal salute to the flag. Twenty-seven states require school children to salute the flag daily.

Some might argue that we are simply saluting a symbol, that we are actually pledging allegiance to our country. But the words tell a different story. "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of American, and to the republic for which it stands." The insertion of the word "and" makes clear that the flag and the republic are two different entities. We are pledging allegiance to the flag itself.

If further evidence is needed, consider these words from the Congressionally enacted U.S. Flag code (Title 36 USC 10, PL 344). "The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing."

Just eight months ago, Lincoln, Nebraska police arrested a 64-year-old Vietnam War veteran who flew the American flag upside down to protest the war in Iraq. He was arrested for violating a 1977 Nebraska law prohibiting the "mutilation of a flag," which it defines this way. "A person commits the offense of mutilating a flag if such person intentionally casts contempt or ridicule upon a flag..." The penalty is three months in jail. Of course, in many societies, the punishment for ridiculing God is far greater.

Our national anthem, sung at every sporting event and increasingly, at every mass political gathering, is the only one I know that focuses its devotion solely on a flag. "And the rockets' red glare / the bombs bursting in air / gave proof through the night that our Flag was still there." Congress has repeatedly thwarted attempts to substitute the eminently more singable and entirely more fitting song, "America the Beautiful," for "The Star Spangled Banner."

Following up on its 1943 decision, the U.S. Supreme Court in 1989 and again in 1990 declared that ridiculing or defacing the American flag was protected by the First Amendment. Which is why Congress is now about to send a Constitutional Amendment to the states.

God bless those who will fight this Congressional initiative as a dangerous precedent, the first Constitutional Amendment that restricts the reach of the Bill of Rights. Their devotion to the first 10 amendments to the Constitution is admirable. Perhaps we can expect devout Christians' equally fierce devotion to the Ten Commandments to energize them in opposition to this initiative. David Morris is co-founder and vice president of the Institute for Local Self Reliance in Minneapolis, Minnnesota and director of its New Rules project. [/FONT]