This is possible.

 

SingleCell, we should keep in mind that the KOTN has to be part of the "iron" in Dan 2, because even though it mixes with clay, it does survive until Gods kingdom comes, right?

 

Yes, indeed.

Daniel 7 has been mystifying me recently, I think the 7 heads in Daniel 7 might be contemporaries.

Meaning that the Rev 13 amalgamation might be more directly connected with Daniel 7 than I previously thought.

[and making the recent headlines about immigration interesting pushed out 20 years]

That disconnects Daniel 2 somewhat, or ... abstracts it as overview.

What is interesting is the timing of Daniel receiving the vision in chapter 7:

after Nebuchadnezzar is dead, explicitly.

 

SingleCell,

SingleCell, let me ask you a couple of questions.

Can we say the lion in chapter 7 is the healed condition of Dan 4 and the fallen tree?

Dan 4:33 "his hair grew long just like eagles feathers and his nails were like birds claws."

Dan 7:4 "The first one was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were plucked out,"

Dan 4:24 "your dwelling will be with the beasts of the field,"

Dan 7:4 "and it was lifted up from the earth and was made to stand up on two feet like a man,"

Dan 4:6 "Let its heart be changed from that of a human, and let it be given the heart of a beast,"

Dan 7:4 "and it was given the heart of a man."

Can we also say that the lion in Dan 7 is associated with the head of gold in Dan 2? Would you not say that the four beasts in Dan 7 represent the four elements in the image of Dan 2 in some way?

Now let's ask this, if the lion in Dan 7 is a healed condition of the head of gold, that means the lion in Dan 7 is a different time period then what is represented in Dan 2 and the immense image. Would you say it appears to be meant as Babylon, just a different time period, after a healing, or death stroke? Then could it not be said that the three remaining beasts could also be different time periods for the other metals in Dan 2 as well?

As an example the bear, with one side lifted up, was not Persia stronger then the Mede's? And the three ribs, did they not concur Babylon, Lydia and Egypt?

So what if, and let me ask you, if chapter 7 represents a different time period for the elements in Dan 2, then could Rev 13 also represent a different time period the Dan 2 or Dan 7?

While considering this I have a few finally questions for you to ponder, (because I don't want this post to be too long). We also have to remember there is a healing we are looking for of one of the heads of Rev 13. So here a few final questions;

What is the only nation represented by these four metals/beasts of Daniel mentioned by name in Rev as being alive in the time of the end?

If the lion in Dan 7 is the healing of the tree in Dan 4 and Neb, then could the lion in Dan 7 be the healed head of Rev 13? After all isn't Babylon the only nation mentioned by name alive in the end after being destroyed?

If this is the case, then would the 7 times tell us when this lion is healed?

Have you noticed that the little horn of Dan 7 also shares a lot with the lion?

Dan 7:4 "I watched until its wings were plucked out,"

Dan 7:8 "three of the first horns were plucked up from before it."

Dan 7:4 "was made to stand up on two feet like a man"

Dan 7:8 "And look! there were eyes like human eyes in this horn, and there was a mouth speaking arrogantly"

Have you noticed what this horn and this lion share with the clay of Dan 2?

Dan 2:43 "Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people"

Consider these things as I lay out just a few more interesting observations;

Dan 2:43 "Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people"

Gen 11:3 “Come! Let us make bricks and bake them with fire"

Dan 4:11 "The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached the heavens"

Gen 11:4 "“Come! Let us build a city for ourselves and a tower with its top in the heavens"

Dan 4:12 "Beneath it the beasts of the field would seek shade,"

Gen 11:4 "so that we will not be scattered over the entire face of the earth."

Dan 4:13 "I saw a watcher, a holy one, coming down from the heavens. He called out loudly: “Chop down the tree,"

Gen 11:4&7 "Then Jehovah went down to see the city / Come! Let us go down there and confuse their language"

Dan 4:14 "cut off its branches, shake off its leaves, and scatter its fruit!"

Gen 11:8 "So Jehovah scattered them from there over the entire face of the earth,"

Now only one final connection;

Gen 11:2 "they discovered a valley plain in the land of Shiʹnar,"

Zech 5:11 “To the land of Shiʹnar to build her a house; and when it is prepared, she will be deposited there in her proper place.”

Gen 11:9 "That is why it was named Baʹbel,"

Rev 17:5 "On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great,"

 

I don't think so. The Lion in Daniel 7 goes from strong and swift to "dumb" and slow, heart of man is losing it's strength of the lion, and the wings plucked out are taking away it's swift militaristic capability. (I would cite scriptures, but am really busy ATM -- can only quick comment)

Nebuchadnezzar goes in the opposite direction in Daniel 4, and is dead by the time Daniel received chapter 7.

(in other words, it seems unlikely that the head of gold and tree (explicitly Nebuchadnezzar) and Daniel 7's lion are the same entity - we have to shoehorn them together and ignore their attributes to equate the two)

 

SingleCell, why attribute any personality traits to the lion? Is it not clear that the feathers and heart are directly connected to the tree vision?

Nebi grows feathers in Dan 4, the feathers are plucked out in Dan 7. Nebi is made to walk on all fours in Dan 4, the lion in Dan 7 is made to stand up like a man. Nebi is given a heart of a beast in Dan 4, the lion in Dan 7 is given the heart of a man. Does not the lion show a direct correlation of the repaired condition Nebi found himself in after the fall? (If we want to keep it as simple as possible and not impose our understanding.)

By extension we then can say that the lion represents Babylon as a whole since Nebi was no longer alive.

The four elements of the image of Dan 2 are no doubt direct representations of the beasts in Dan 7, head of gold=Lion.

We know Babylon is seen alive in the time of the end (Rev 17), and we see a head with a death stroke healed in Rev 13, we also see a healed condition in the Lion of Dan 7 that is directly associated with the head of gold, "Babylon".

Think about it...

 

This is one of the primary questions regarding how we frame these concepts.

Where else does the Bible describe the attributes of a lion? What is the context?

If we presume that the Lion is Nebuchadnezzar-Babylon because of Daniel 4 and Daniel 2, then we're forced to make similar connections with the Bear, Leopard and 4th beast. Those connections break down.

Similarly, we presume that the "10 toes" NOT mentioned in Daniel 2 are the 10 horns; but what about the 10 fingers?

Did Medo-Persia have 10 factions ruling it, like the presumed 10 toes? Of course not.

Therefore, we're reading information into the data-set, rather than allowing the scriptures to self-interpret by reference.

"“Put a horn to your mouth! One comes like an eagle against the house of Jehovah,

For they have violated my covenant and transgressed against my law."

- Hosea 8:1

(regarding Assyria)

"“The people of Israel are scattered sheep. Lions have dispersed them. First the king of As·syrʹi·a devoured them; then King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon gnawed on their bones."

- Jeremiah 50:17

There are 7 heads in Daniel 7 [4 (Leopoard) + 1 (Lion) + 1(Bear) + 1(4th beast)], all of those heads appear simultaneously in Revelation 13 as an amalgamation of nations called the wild beast.

I'm starting to wonder if the 4th beast is the wild beast in Rev 13, who subsumes these other 6 national amalgamations, and is represented by 10 ruling bodies.

The world seems to be shaping towards this.

 

Exactly, and why not? Why not assume that the bear is the silver and the leopard is the copper and the fierce beast is the iron? This has to be so. That makes the small horn the clay. I thought you had already made this connection and excepted it, was I wrong?

I believe the image in Dan 2 and the beasts in Dan 7 are directly representative of each other, albeit in different time periods.

I actually don't presume that at all... I simply believe the clay in Dan 2 is the small horn in Dan 7. Whether ten toes go with ten horns is irrelevant to me, it's quite obvious that the fourth element in Dan 2 is Rome, and the fourth beast in Dan 7 is Rome. The head of gold is Babylon, and the lion is Babylon. The bear is Medo-Persia with one larger then the other concurring three nations, and the leopard that split into four nations when Alexander the Great died. That's why in Dan 8 out of the four came the small horn in that chapter that became Rome. The small horn in 8 is not the same horn in 7. Dan 8 describes the battle between Medo-Persia and Greece.

No, Rome is the iron of Dan 2 and the fourth fierce beast of Dan 7, and it had the ten factions.

1. Saxons
2. Franks
3. Alamanni
4. Visgoths
5. Suevi
6. Lombards
7. Burgundians

Then the last three are the three that fell before the small horn;

8. Heruli
9. Vandals
10. Ostrogoths

Wouldn't the simplest understanding be that the second beast in Rev 13 is the iron/clay of Dan 2, and the fierce beast/and little horn of Dan 7? Rev 13 can simply just be another example of Dan 2, and Dan 7, just a different time period...

Would this not be the simplest understanding, and allowing scripture to explain itself?

 

I thought so; this is the commonly accepted interpretation going back 300+ years.

But there are too many disconnects.

For example, those ten horns exist during the time of the end.

"The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast."

- Revelation 17:12

If you dig into the early middle ages, those "10" kingdoms are highly debatable, and forces us to shoehorn that period to fit.

You mentioned once that the "other beasts" continue for awhile after Christ's judgment of the 7th-8th; I ignored that verse for awhile, but now it's bugging me

 

Since I see Dan 2, Dan 7 and Rev 13 as different time periods, I also see each entity as being the same, but in a modern form. Let me explain. I see the head of Gold as Neo-Babylon with Nebi as the head (but ultimately Babylon itself), then I see the lion as the reborn Babel after the 7 times ending in 325CE (the story of the tree matches the tower of Babel story), then I see the lion in Rev 13 as Babylon the great in our time reborn in 1929 with the Lateran Treaty between the Holy See and Italy, ultimately turning into European Union making up the whole beast.

“I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant words that the horn was speaking; I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire. But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season." Dan 7:11,12

"The fifth one poured out his bowl on the throne of the wild beast. And its kingdom became darkened," Rev 16:10

“In the time of the end the king of the south will engage with him in a pushing, and against him the king of the north will storm with chariots and horsemen and many ships; and he will enter into the lands and sweep through like a flood." Dan 11:40

A time equals 360 days, and a season equals 90 days totaling 450 days. This is the time period before the new world day that the other beasts will hand over their authority to a world power after the wild beast goes down in the time of the end, but keep in mind this wild beast does not come back, it is destroyed from this blow.