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Locust Army

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by Tsaphah, Oct 10, 2017.

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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    This will be my last comment on this subject!
    I must make a correction to my statement about the names of only 2 angels. There is also the angel Abaddon/Apollyon, of the abyss, given at Rev 9:11. I also found an unnamed angel of Satan, mentioned by Paul. ( 2 Co 12:7 )

    Abaddon is also mentioned 6 times in the Hebrew scriptures (OT) associated with the grave, death, fire that consumes, Job 26:6, 28:22, 31:12. (3) Ps 88:11 (1) Pr 15:11, 27:20 (2) One of Strong’s definition for this word is: Abaddon = “destruction” ( 4. the name of the angel-prince of the infernal regions, the minister of death and the author of havoc on the earth. )

    You will notice in Rev 9:11 it mentions a “king” over the locusts which come out of the abyss. He is also the one who is given the “key” to the abyss. I’ll let you figure out/determine who he is.


     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Tsaphah, have you ever considered the connection between Rev 9 and Joel?

    Joel 2:25 "And I will make compensation to you for the years That the swarming locust, the unwinged locust, the voracious locust, and the devouring locust have eaten, My great army that I sent among you."
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    There is a difference in Rev 9. “the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots, of many horses rushing to battle.” (9:9) They are not like the locusts mentioned in Joel. There are four different locusts described in Joel; gnawing, swarming, creeping, and stripping. These devour all the vegetation that would/could provide food for the inhabitants of the land. Paul used this reference to their belief and trust in God’s promises, to identify what was required for the faithful. (Ro 10:10-12)

    The locusts in Joel were actual locusts which devastated the land, but not the people. In Revelation 9 they are “told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.” (9:4) They are symbolic locusts. Both names of the angel of the abyss, in Hebrew and Greek, = destruction. Which angel that we know of is a destroyer?
     
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    Regent Lessard

    Regent Lessard New Member

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    HI Tsaphah, we have to careful with that "Angel" of the "Abyss" in Rev 9:11, maybe he is a good guy after all. Heb 11:28. There is nothing more surprising than the "Truth". Agape Love to you and all, Regent
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Okay, I want to start with the Vegetation; The book of Amos must be used in order to understand the book of Joel, because within it is the definition of the vegetation of Joel.

    Amo 7:3 "When the swarm finished eating up the vegetation of the land"

    Now we read in verse three that this will not happen;

    Amos 7:3b "It will not happen," Jehovah said."

    So in reality, the locusts do not eat up the vegetation (keep that in mind).

    Now, is the vegetation in Joel meant to be literal, with no metaphoric significance? Look at how the vegetation in Amos is directly connected to the survival of Jacob, and how Jacob is said to represent the vegetation.

    Amos 7:2b "How can Jacob survive?"

    Jesus being the decedent of Jacob, we have a representation of Israel itself, or said otherwise, the remaining of those of Jesus's brothers along with those with them here on earth.

    Now, who is it that forms this swarm of locusts in Amos 7:1? It is Jehovah...

    Amos 7:1 "This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah showed me: Look! He formed a locust swarm when the late crop was beginning to come up."

    So, we must understand at this point that it is Jehovah himself that forms the locusts. If we read at Joel 2:25 we find;

    Joel 2:25 "And I will make compensation to you for the years That the swarming locust, the unwinged locust, the voracious locust, and the devouring locust have eaten, My great army that I sent among you."

    So then that begs the question, who is the king mentioned in Amos 7:1?

    Amos 7:1 "This was the later crop after the king's hay had been cut."

    It has to be Jehovah, Jehovah is the King of the army of locusts.

    The kings hay in ancient Israel would have been cut to feed the kings horses. So what prophetic significance does this have? Well, Jehovah's locusts are seen as in appearance of horses in Rev 9;

    Rev 9:7 "And in appearance the locusts resembled horses prepared for battle"

    So, we are told that the vegetation in Joel would not be harmed after all, and it just so happens we are told in Rev 9;

    Rev 9:4 "They were told not to harm the vegetation of the earth or any green plant or any tree."

    I see a direct connection between these locusts of Rev 9 and that in Joel, and Amos. I see an end time fulfillment of these prophecies.

    Look further;

    Amos 7:1; "Look! He formed a locust swarm when the late crop was beginning to come up."

    To define this crop we can refer to Jesus's parable of the wheat and weeds in Mat 13. Jehovah's people are seen as his crop of wheat with weeds sown in. Once the crop is cut then Israel will be sifted among the nations.

    What is the later crop mentioned in Amos that comes up? In my opinion, none other then Jehovah's people collecting back to him after the apostasy. I see the constant feature/Watchtower as the hay crop that comes down to feed Jehovah's locust swarm (the northerner), and there will be a later crop that comes up, and this will be in fulfillment of the call to rebuild the spiritual Israel when Gods people will be gathered back to him out of Babylon.

    In completion, I see the locusts just as much symbolic in Joel and Amos, as they are in Rev.
     
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    john

    john Member

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    [Amos 7:1This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah caused me to see, and, look! he was forming a [locust] swarm at the start of the coming up of the later sowing. And, look! it was the later sowing after the mown grass of the king.*


    Footnote

    Rbi8 Amos 7:1

    “And, look! one locust was Gog the king,” LXX. Compare Eze 38:2.]


    __________________


    [Joel 1:6: 2:3,4,5,11 For there is a nation [the northerner], that has come up into my land, mighty and without number. “There is a people numerous and mighty; one like it has not been made to exist from the indefinite past, and after it there will be none again to the years of generation after generation. “Its appearance is like the appearance of horses, and like steeds is the way they keep running. As with the sound of chariots on the tops of the mountains they keep skipping about, as with the sound of a flaming fire that is devouring stubble. It is like a mighty people, drawn up in battle order. And Jehovah himself will certainly give forth his voice before his military force [the northerner], for his camp is very numerous.]

    [Ezekiel 38:13 Is it to do much plundering that you have congregated your congregation, in order to carry off silver and gold, to take wealth and property, to get a very great spoil?”’… 15 And you will certainly come from your place, from the remotest parts of the north [Someone coming from the north is referred to as being a northerner], you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great congregation, even a numerous military force. 16 And you will be bound to come up against my people Israel, like clouds to cover the land. In the final part of the days it will occur, and I shall certainly bring you against my land,’]

    [6-1-81 WT- Joel 3 2-16, 19 It tells us why Jehovah is angry with the nations—because of the way they have treated his servants. They scattered them among the nations, making slaves of them. Also, they robbed Jehovah’s temple of its gold, silver and other desirable things, and brought these into their own temples.]

    [Ezekiel 39:25 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘Now is when I shall bring back the captive ones of Jacob and actually have mercy upon all the house of Israel; and I will show exclusive devotion for my holy name’]

    [Joel 3:1“For, look! in those days and in that time, when I shall bring back the captive ones of Judah and Jerusalem 2 I will also collect together all the nations and bring them down to the low plain of Je·hosh´a·phat; and I will put myself on judgment with them there on account of my people and my inheritance Israel, whom they scattered among the nations; and they apportioned out my own land.]


    [Quote from Ciro Aulicino speaking about Gog’s attack. “What the Future Holds” talk- “What’s the point? Brothers, we should expect them to despoil us of our human rights. We should expect them to confiscate all of Jehovah’s belongings and close down and take possession of all our branches, factories, depots, kingdom halls, assembly halls, everything. Don’t make any mistake about it. We are all in this together. We have a common enemy.”]

    [Joel 1:6 For there is a nation that has come up into my land, mighty and without number. 7 It has set my vine as an object of astonishment, and my fig tree as a stump. It has positively stripped it bare and thrown [it] away. The twigs of it have become white. 10 [The] field has been despoiled, [the] ground has gone to mourning; for [the] grain has been despoiled, [the] new wine has been dried up, [the] oil has faded away. 11Farmers have felt shame; vinedressers have howled, on account of wheat and on account of barley; for the harvest of [the] field has perished. 12 The vine itself has shown dryness, and even the fig tree has faded away. As for [the] pomegranate tree, also [the] palm tree and [the] apple tree, all the trees of the field, they have dried up; for exultation has gone ashamed away from the sons of mankind. 16 Has not food itself been cut off before our very eyes; from the house of our God, rejoicing and joyfulness? 17 Dried figs have shriveled under their shovels. Storehouses have been laid desolate. Barns have been torn down, for [the] grain has dried up. 18 O how the domestic animal has sighed! [How] the droves of cattle have wandered in confusion! For there is no pasturage for them. Also, the droves of the sheep have been the ones made to bear guilt. 19 “To you, O Jehovah, I shall call; for fire itself has devoured the pasture grounds of [the] wilderness, and a very flame has consumed all the trees of the field. 20 The beasts of the field also keep longing for you, because the channels of water have dried up, and fire itself has devoured the pasture grounds of the wilderness.”]

    [1-15-04 WT- As foretold in Ezekiel chapter 38, Satan will soon complete his role as “Gog of the land of Magog.” This will involve a worldwide attack on Jehovah’s people. It will be an all-out attempt on the part of Satan to break the integrity of God’s loyal ones. As never before, worshipers of Jehovah will need to call upon him earnestly, even crying for help.]

    [Joel 1:5,8,9,13,14- “Wake up, YOU drunkards, and weep; and howl, all YOU wine drinkers, on account of sweet wine, for it has been cut off from YOUR mouths. Wail, as a virgin girded with sackcloth does over the owner of her youth. “Grain offering and drink offering have been cut off from the house of Jehovah; the priests, the ministers of Jehovah, have mourned. “Gird yourselves, and beat YOUR breasts, YOU priests. Howl, YOU ministers of [the] altar. Sanctify a time of fasting. Call together a solemn assembly. Gather together [the] older men, all the inhabitants of the land, to the house of Jehovah YOUR God, and cry to Jehovah for aid.
    Joel 2:12,17- “And now also,” the utterance of Jehovah is, “come back to me with all YOUR hearts, and with fasting and with weeping and with wailing. “Between the porch and the altar let the priests, the ministers of Jehovah, weep and say, ‘Do feel sorry, O Jehovah, for your people, and do not make your inheritance a reproach, for nations to rule over them. Why should they say among the peoples: “Where is their God?”’]

    [5-15-15 WT -The Bible speaks not only of the attack by ‘Gog of Magog’ but also of the attack by “the king of the north” and of the attack by “the kings of the earth.” (Ezek. 38:2, 10-13; Dan. 11:40, 44, 45; Rev. 17:14; 19:19) Do these represent separate attacks? Not likely. The Bible is no doubt referring to the same attack under different names. Because the Scriptures tell us that all the nations of the earth will be involved in this final attack that prompts the war of Armageddon.—Rev. 16:14, 16.]

    [Joel 2:12,17- “And now also,” the utterance of Jehovah is, “come back to me with all YOUR hearts, and with fasting and with weeping and with wailing. “Between the porch and the altar let the priests, the ministers of Jehovah, weep and say, ‘Do feel sorry, O Jehovah, for your people, and do not make your inheritance a reproach, for nations to rule over them. Why should they say among the peoples: “Where is their God?”’]

    [Ezekiel 39:23 And the nations will have to know that it was because of their error that they, the house of Israel, went into exile, on account of the fact that they behaved unfaithfully toward me, so that I concealed my face from them and gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and they kept falling, all of them, by the sword.’]

    [3-15-61 WT- The opening verse of Isaiah 29 shows that these words are addressed to Ariel, concerning which the footnote of the New World Translation states: “‘Ariel.’ Meaning, perhaps, ‘the altar hearth of God’; or, ‘the lion of God.’ Designating Jerusalem here.” This prophecy would therefore apply to spiritual Jerusalem as represented upon earth by the remnant. These words show that God’s earthly organization would come under attack and would be reduced to a very low state by the enemies of God’s kingdom. God’s people would be, as it were, crushed to the earth, at the time of Gog’s attack upon them,]

    [Isaiah 29:1 “Woe to Ar´i·el, to Ar´i·el, the town where David encamped! Add year upon year, YOU people; let the festivals run the round. 2 And I have to make things tight for Ar´i·el, and there must come to be mourning and lamentation, and she must become to me as the altar hearth of God. 3 And I must encamp on all sides against you, and I must lay siege to you with a palisade and raise up against you siegeworks.]

    [Luke 19:43 Because the days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification with pointed stakes and will encircle you and distress you from every side,]

    [5-1-99 WT- Since the start of the great tribulation is yet future, is the “standing in a holy place” still ahead of us? Evidently so. While “the disgusting thing” made its appearance early in this century and has, thus, existed for decades, it will take a position in a unique way “in a holy place” in the near future.]

    [Luke 21: 20 “Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·de´a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her; 22 because these are days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those days! For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.]

    [Revelation 11:2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.]
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Greetings brother, I wish you would spend more time with us, I always appreciate your input, and miss your commentary when you are absent...

    Of course the locust swarm is nations, that's the way he's always worked. The locusts are not faithful ones, they are nations that come against Gods house for their errors...

    Ish 37:29 "Because your rage against me and your roaring have reached my ears. So I will put my hook in your nose and my bridle between your lips, And I will lead you back the way you came.”

    It's not Israel that comes against Israel, it's nations that come against the constant feature, and against the Holy Place, and Jehovah puts the hooks into Gog in order for him to do as he wills... All of prophecy shows that Jehovah is said to use other nations from Babylon of old, to Egypt, to whom ever. They were always spoken of as Jehovah's army coming against Israel. This has always been the theme, and nothing changes in the end...

    Again, Jehovah uses the nations to come against spiritual Israel in the end because of there errors, they enter into and flood over Gods people, sending them into captivity, then Jehovah brings reprieve when he gathers his people back to him, before putting the hooks into Gog in order to bring him down to the low plains of Megedo so he may sanctify his name before all mankind...

    Look at Israels fall to Babylon, same thing. Jehovah calls Babylon "his army", that comes against "his land".

    All love brother...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    You will notice in Rev 9:11 it mentions a “king” over the locusts which come out of the abyss. He is also the one who is given the “key” to the abyss. I’ll let you figure out/determine who he is.

    In my original post, I said it was my last post on this subject. I was asking “who” was the angel with the “key to the abyss”, and “who” was “the king of the abyss”. I didn’t get an answer. It turned into a subject about locusts. So, here is one recognized bible scholar’s opinion.

    Verse 7. The locusts were like unto horses
    “This description of the locusts appears to be taken from Joel 2:4. The whole of this symbolical description of an overwhelming military force agrees very well with the troops of Mohammed. The Arabs are the most expert horsemen in the world: they live so much on horseback that the horse and his rider seem to make but one animal. The Romans also were eminent for their cavalry.”

    Their faces were as the faces of men.
    That is, though locusts symbolically, they are really men.

    Verse 9. They had breastplates-of iron
    They seemed to be invulnerable, for no force availed against them.

    The sound of their wings
    Their hanging weapons and military trappings, with the clang of their shields and swords when they make their fierce onsets. This simile is borrowed from Joel 2:5-7.

    Verse 11. A king over them
    
A supreme head; some think Mohammed, some think Vespasian.

    The angel of the bottomless pit
    The chief envoy of Satan.

    (The Adam Clarke Commentary - Revelation 9)

    What say you?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Good evening brother...

    I know, I didn't answer it specifically, in order to walk through who I understood the locusts to be, before naming the star given the key, and the king over the abyss. What use would it be to name them, without describing how I got there?

    This is why I quoted Amos, for if you believe the locusts in Amos are the same as those in Rev 9, then the king of the locusts are Jehovah. (I will present how our Lord is A·polʹlyon, give me a bit.)

    It seem obvious to me that Amos 7 has a prophetic fulfillment in the time of the end.

    Amos 7:4 "The Sovereign Lord Jehovah called for a punishment by fire. It consumed the vast deep waters, and it consumed a portion of the land."

    Rev 8:7 "The first one blew his trumpet. And there was hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was hurled to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up,"

    Rev 8:10 "The third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning like a lamp fell from heaven, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters."

    That is why this forum exists, to discuss scripture, and that's what I live for... I relish the opportunity to split off a discussion like this and make a new thread out of it, let's dig in and present ideas, I learn more from these discussions then I do on my own...

    That is ridiculous brother, I could name any number of civilizations who were known for their horsemanship over time, such as the Mongolians. No offense, but that reminds me of someone saying Trump is the anti-Christ.

    So then, the cherub is a man?

    Rev 4:7 "The first living creature was like a lion, and the second living creature was like a young bull, and the third living creature had a face like a man’s, and the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle."

    Again, a statement lacking experience in scripture.

    Again, this comment is as if the writer simply guessed.

    A breastplate is described as faith in scripture, and it being of iron most likely denotes their faith in the iron nation. (IMO)

    More personal interpretation... "Their wings are guns hanging off of them", are you serious?

    Anyway, that ones too stupid to even comment further on...

    Hmm, let me see, how many kings can I come up with? Maybe it's the king of Morocco, Jordan, Oman, Kuwait, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, or maybe I could come up with some more if I think about it.... I'm betting on the queen of England... o_O

    Is that like a butler? Maybe this demon gets angelic coffer for the dragon... Hmm, made up angelic jobs, interesting...

    Anyway, I want to comment further on the serious questions you've raised, but I need to do a few things, so I will be back to respond more seriously brother...

    All love...
     
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    john

    john Member

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    Luke 10: 18 At that he said to them: “I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven.


    Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet. And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth, and the key of the pit of the abyss was given him. … 11 They have over them a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is A·bad´don, but in Greek he has the name A·pol´lyon


    Footnote Rbi8 Revelation 9:11

    “Abaddon.” Or, “Destruction.”

    “Apollyon.” Or, “Destroyer.”


    John 8:44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began,


    Luke 22: 3 But Satan entered into Judas, the one called Is·car´i·ot, who was numbered among the twelve;


    John 17: 12 When I was with them I used to watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me; and I have kept them, and not one of them is destroyed except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled.


    1John 5: 19 We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.


    Matthew 7: 13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it;


    Hebrews 2:14 Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly partook of the same things, that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil;
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    AhhHaa!! Finally, I've got this going. As you can see, I used quotes from a "so-called Bible Scholar".
    Sometimes I have to laugh at his/their conclusions. He did have one that I thought about; the Romans.
    They were experienced "horsemen". Just be careful if you see some infantry men riding down the street
    on horses. You'll know for sure it's the end time. :eek:

     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    LOL... I thought to myself, "He is kidding right?" But I didn't want to ask, cause that just sounds condescending, and I didn't want to offend you just in case, but it was WAY outside your character, and I had a pretty good idea that there's no way you would have given such nonsense any real attention...lol

    I will watch out for those horses with the gun wings rattling down the road... o_O

    Nice job... ;)
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Hey brother, I might share an interesting connection you may have not noticed, there is an actual star that falls in Rev.

    Look:

    Rev 1:20 "The seven stars mean the angels of the seven congregations, and the seven lampstands mean the seven congregations."

    Rev 3:14-16 "To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God: ‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or else hot. So because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth."

    So to highlight, within the exact same book of Rev we have stars that represent angels. Should we look past this fact? If Laodicia is the last church when our Lord returns, that one that needs disciplined, and that one that goes into captivity, being spat out of Jehovah's mouth, then should it surprise us that the angel, the star of the church of Laodicia would be the one seen fallen, just like Rev 3:14-16 says? After all, Amos tells us that Jehovah is the king of the locusts, and the one that forms them, even though they are nations and not made up of Israel.

    You may not have noticed that brother, and I wanted to offer that for your consideration...
     
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    john

    john Member

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    I see that it says that he is who forms the locust swarm but where do you see that it says he is the king of them???


    [Amos 7:1 This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah caused me to see, and, look! he was forming a locust swarm at the start of the coming up of the later sowing. And, look! it was the later sowing after the mown grass of the king.*
    Footnote
    Rbi8 Amos 7:1
    “And, look! one locust was Gog the king,” LXX. Compare Eze 38:2.]
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Good morning brother...

    Let me start by saying that the footnote is an interpretation, and there is no direct connection to include Gog within the text in Amos utilizing Eze 38:2. So, not only does the footnote take the step of connecting the two when there is no connection, one may take that even further and say Gog is the king of these locusts, when there is absolutely no reason to do so at all...

    Instead, let me show you direct connections, let's start with Jacob.

    Amos 7:2 "How can Jacob survive?"

    Jacob is not only said to be suffering by the attack of the locusts, but the text indicates that Jacob is the vegetation itself that is being attacked.

    Now, is this a surprise? Not really... Jesus being the decedent of Jacob, we have a representation of Israel itself, or said otherwise, the remaining of those of Jesus's brothers along with those with them here on earth in our day. This vegetation is a "crop" according to Amos 7:1, and this crop is none other then that of our Lord's.

    Mth 13:1,2 "On that day Jesus left the house and was sitting by the sea. And such large crowds gathered to him that he went aboard a boat and sat down, and all the crowd was standing on the beach. Then he told them many things by illustrations, saying: “Look! A sower went out to sow."

    Luk 10:2 "He told them, "The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field."

    Rev 14:15 "Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."

    Now, back to the main question; "How do we know the king in Amos 7:1 is Jehovah, and the king of the locusts?"

    The field in which the vegetation/Jacob is being grown is the "kings" field in the narrative.

    Amos 7:1 "This was the later crop after the king’s hay had been cut."

    So, the field we are talking about is Jehovah's, and the vegetation we are talking about is Jehovah's, and he is the one that forms the locusts, to come against his own land, for their errors, just as the rest of Amos 7 speaks of.

    Amos 7:8 "Then Jehovah said to me: “What do you see, Aʹmos?” So I said: “A plumb line.” Jehovah then said: “Here I am putting a plumb line among my people Israel. I will no longer pardon them."

    Now, the kings hay in ancient Israel would have been cut in order to feed his horses. So think about that, the locusts attack the vegetation, and the locusts are described as horses in Rev 9. The hay is cut to feed the locust/horses of Rev 9.

    Jehovah is the king of eternity, he is the one that is directing the locusts, he is the one that forms them and tells them to either devour the vegetation or not, so you tell me, who is the king of the locusts according to the text?

    Again, the footnote was placed there by a man, a man with an interpretation...
     
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    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Now brothers, I will address A·polʹlyon...

    My first thoughts would be to ask you, why would we associate "destruction" with Satan? I know the mind immediately goes to, "What, are you kidding? He's destroyed everything." But, it's not what we think that matters, but the text, right?

    First off, can we define Satan as "destroyer"? No, his name means "lier", he is the "murderer".

    Now, bare with me.......

    Is anyone in scripture actually mentioned as a destroyer? Sure:

    Jer 51:20 "You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms."

    Rev 2:26,27 "And to the one who conquers and observes my deeds down to the end, I will give authority over the nations, and he will shepherd the people with an iron rod so that they will be broken to pieces like clay vessels, just as I have received from my Father."

    Exe 12:23 "For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when He sees the blood on the lintel and on the two doorposts, the LORD will pass over the door and will not allow the destroyer to come in to your houses to smite you."

    Heb 11:28 "By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that he who destroyed the firstborn would not touch them."

    Rev 11:18 "And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

    In Hebrew the word Abaddon is synonymous with the grave, with Sheol. So, who is the king of the grave, who has control over it's hold???

    Rev 1:8 "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades."

    Would not the very one who holds the keys to death and Hades be the king over it? Our Lord is king, and he is king over Abaddon, the abyss, Sheol...

    Rev 20:13 "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds."

    Mth 10:28 "And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna."

    And I could go on....

    You see, Satan is the lier, but it is Jehovah that is the destroyer. Jehovah destroys the unfaithful nations, the ungodly men. Our Lord controls death and Hades, he is the one that holds the keys, and is the one that will finally destroy death and Hades in the lake of fire. He is the one that can destroy and it never return, not Satan. Fear not the one who can kill the body (the murderer), fear the one that can destroy body and soul forever in the abyss, fear God!

    Our Lord is A·polʹlyon, the king of the locusts, the holder of the keys to death and Hades/Aboddon, in his hands is the scepter that will destroy the nations like pottery, that king in Rev 9 is our Lord...

     
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    Regent Lessard New Member

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    Hi Joshua, what a nice Post you have just made here, with all Bible proof, makes things hard to prove otherwise. The only place that I see differently is when you say that "Our Lord is A-pol'lyon" but I still give you 50% on that statement because of the "delegation of authority" that our Lord Jesus has. I will give a few examples of what I mean: are we "Jesus" no, does Jesus consider those of the first fruits to be himself? in a sense "Yes" Mt 25:40 ...To the extent that you have done it to one of the least of these, my brothers, you have done it to "Me". 2 Co 5:20 ..."Ambassadors" substituting for "Christ". In Mt 28:20 Jesus say's that he will be with his disciples all the days until the conclusion of the system of things. Was that a lie? because it is said that he is sitting at the right of his father. The name of the game again is "Delegation of authority" Rev 5:6 "Jesus=Lamb, having 7 horns and 7 eyes, witch (eyes) means the 7 Spirits of God that have been sent forth into the whole earth. Furthermore, in Rev 1:18 that you mention, it say's that Jesus has the "Keys of death" and of Ha'des. When did Jesus receive those "Keys" or that authority? Certainly not when a star (angel) was given the "Key" of the pit of the abyss, in Rev 9:1. Jesus himself said in Mt 28:18 ...all authority has been given me in heaven and on earth. Our Lord Jesus is certainly the one that gave the "Key" of the abyss to that angel. He had them a long time before that time frame, that we say is yet future. So who is "That King angel of the abyss?" in Rev 9:11. I think
    the Key to that question is "Delegation of Authority". Agape Love, Regent
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Greetings brother...

    Please offer your understanding if you would, for I can't respond without repeating myself, unless I know who you think it is.

    All love...
     
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    Regent Lessard New Member

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    Simply put an angle under Christ authority following the orders and work gave to him by Christ and for Christ. Regent
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I would have to refer you to post #15 brother. The "kings" crop in Amos 7 requires either Jehovah or Christ Jesus in order to fill that role, and since the text says "angel" and our Lord has been given all authority, only our Lord could be the king over the locusts...
     

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