Locust Army

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by Tsaphah, Oct 10, 2017.

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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    When I was in the military, we had letters and words that needed to be coded or uncoded. Letters and words are codes. If you don’t use the right code, you get a wrong message, or not able to understand what is being said. As an example, we identified our forces by a combination of letters given in a certain sequence. The same is true with the Bible code. Understanding which words to use in a sequence is important to correct message.

    The same holds true with the message in the Bible. “Then Jeremiah took another scroll and gave it to Baruch the son of Neriah, the scribe, and he wrote on it at the dictation of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire; and many similar words were added to them.” ( Jer 36:32 NASB )

    Then Jeremiah took another roll and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah, who wrote in it from the mouth of Jeremiah, all the words of the book which Jehoiakim, king of Judah, had burned in the fire. And many words like them were added to them.” ( Jer 36:32 LITV)

    Jeremiah then took another scroll and gave it to Baruch the son of Neriah, the secretary, and at Jeremiah’s dictation he wrote on it all the words of the scroll that King Jehoiakim of Judah had burned in the fire. And many more words like those were added.” (Jer 36:32 NWT)

    You are not being sent to many peoples speaking an unintelligible language or an unknown tongue, whose words you cannot understand. If I would send you to them, they would listen to you.” (Eze 3:6 NWT)

    “The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug.” (Mark Twain)

    “A grandfather was walking through his yard when he heard his granddaughter repeating the alphabet in a tone of voice that sounded like a prayer. He asked her what she was doing. The little girl explained: ‘I’m praying, but I can’t think of exactly the right words, so I’m just saying all the letters, and God will put them together for me, because He knows what I’m thinking.’” (Charles B. Vaughan)

    Where I’m going with this is about the word “fallen/fall/to fall” used at Rev. 9:1. “The fifth angel blew his trumpet. And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth, and the key to the shaft of the abyss was given to him.” The important word is Greek, pipto = to descend from a higher place to a lower. Let’s use that meaning here. “The fifth angel blew his trumpet. And I saw a star that had descended from heaven to the earth, and the key to the shaft of the abyss was given to him.”

    They have over them a king, the angel of the abyss.” Ahhh! The angel with the key is the king over the locusts! (Rev. 9:11 NWT)

    Hmmm. Now read Rev. 20:1-3. Remember, Revelation is not sequential as given to John. They are different scenes representing different events, at different times, not sequential. Several Bible Scholars” identify this “angel of the abyss” as Satan. Wrong!

     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    We have more in common then you realize brother. Years ago, when I was still naive of the Watchtower's errors in prophecy, I worked professionally with leading researchers in the US on braking codes of the KGC (Knights of the Golden Circle).

    After the Civil War, many of the South, including infamous outlaws such as the James brothers were hiding caches across the country in order to fund a second war, and these ones were part of societies that would create codes and maps in order to hide their correspondences and loot.

    I had the privilege of making great strides in that research and I guess you could say I had a knack for seeing structure in chaos. I sometimes wonder if this was a reason I was made aware of the WT's errors...

    Anyhow...

    Of this brother, I'm going to have to take an opposite view. Yes, peptōkota carries the meaning of descending but, not in the way you are using it, it's root meaning is clearly to fall in an ungraceful way, to fail in fact. It's meaning is more of a descent from an erect to a prostrate position, not simply just to move from one location to another, the meaning is more precise then that, hence why translations render it "fallen".

    (Strongs Greek) beat down (1), fail (1), fails (1), fall (15), fall down (2), fallen (8), falling (3), falls (8), fell (46), fell down (6).

    Brother look, the same word is used in Rev 2:5;

    Rev 2:5 "Therefore remember from where you have fallen (peptōkota), and repent and do the deeds you did at first. If you do not, I will come to you, and I will remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent."

    Clearly the same meaning for peptōkota used in Rev 2:5 is used in Rev 9:1...

    In my opinion brother...

    All love...
     
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    john

    john Member

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    Tsaphah

    If you would please state clear and simple who do you say the star is that is said to have fallen from heaven to the earth???

    Who do you say the locust represent???

    Who do you say the king over the locust is???



    Joshuastone7

    If you would please state clear and simple who do you say the star is that is said to have fallen from heaven to the earth???

    Who do you say the locust represent???

    Who do you say the king over the locust is???
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I believe I stated clearly my opinion within my posts on who these ones were, and why.

    The angel of the church of Laodicea.

    Armies of the nation's, this is the moment the 8th king rises.

    Christ Jesus...
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Just as a side note, by my summation, that star Wormwood that falls in the third trumpet is also that star of Laodicea. Wormwood having the same effect on the water of the third trumpet as the lukewarm water of Laodicea, in that of expulsion from ones mouth.

    Rev 1:20 "The seven stars mean the angels of the seven congregations, and the seven lampstands mean the seven congregations."

    Rev 3:15,16 "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or else hot. So because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth."

    Rev 8:10,11 "The third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning like a lamp fell from heaven, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters. The name of the star is Wormwood. And a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the people died from the waters, because these had been made bitter."

    Rev 9:1 "The fifth angel blew his trumpet. And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth, and the key to the shaft of the abyss was given to him."
     
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    Regent Lessard

    Regent Lessard New Member

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    Hi, Joshua, I agree with you on that but I still view the angel that is "king" of the abyss to be Jesus "Angel". The truth is like a "Diamond" with many "Faces", we are looking at the same "Diamond" (Truth) but not on the same face. I will try to explain that. WE both agree that Christ is replacing Jehovah for now and even for the 1000 yr rule, all power, and authority was given him. Mt 28:18, that is why it is said that Jesus is sitting on God's "Trone" with the Father. Rev 3:21. Now does Jesus take his own decisions, or does he do just what he has seen from the Father? Jn 8:28 Jn 6:39 Jn 5:30. Now we have to know if Jehovah does things all by himself or he works thru the "Word" that became Jesus Christ. Col 1:16. We have just read that Christ does just what he has seen the father do. Now that Christ sits with the Father on his Throne will he do the same as his father and work thru someone for all work that his father gave him to do? I think so. Does Jesus have an "Angel" to do work for him? Rev 1:1. Rev 22:16. In Rev 1:9 apostle John say's ... "In company with Jesus, came to be on the isle of Patmos..." Do you think Jesus was really there in person or he was there by his "Angel"? In Heb 10:12,13, it say's that Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God, waiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet. I think he is still waiting, don't you? For me, It is clear it is Jesus in Rev 9:11 that is the "Angel" that is "King of the "Abyss" thru his "Angel". May God's Love and Blessing be with you. Regent
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Brother Regent,

    I understand where your coming from, but I personally don't see the text support for mentioning another angel acting for Jesus. I know our Lord does what his Father does, but there is reasons within the text that should give us pause when imagining another angel is acting in behalf of Christ Jesus. First of which the angel of the abyss is seen as king. In my summation this event is before Gods kingdom comes to this earth, therefore there would be no one in heaven or earth that would be king except our Lord. Besides, the text indicates this one is king of Abaddon, representing our Lords control over the abyss.

    There is however a hand off of action from the king of the abyss to the fallen star, and this indicates that fallen star is acting upon direction from our Lord, and it wouldn't make sense for any other angel to hand off the keys to this angel, for it's our Lord who maintains them.

    Anyways, just my opinion, all love...
     
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    Abdiel7

    Abdiel7 New Member

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    Was reading about the Revelation locusts last night and thought it may correspond with Ezekiel 9.

    Revelation 9:4 They were told not to harm the vegetation of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

    Ezekiel 9:3-7
    3 Then the glory of the God of Israel rose from where it had rested above the cherubs and moved to the threshold of the doorway of the house, and he began calling out to the man who was clothed in linen, at whose waist was the secretary’s inkhorn. 4 Jehovah said to him: “Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the city.”5 And to the others he said in my hearing: “Go through the city after him and strike. Do not let your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion. 6 Old man, young man, virgin, little child, and women you should kill off completely. But do not go near to any man on whom there is the mark. You should start from my sanctuary.” So they started with the elders who were in front of the house. 7 Then he said to them: “Defile the house and fill the courtyards with the slain. Go!” So they went out and struck down people in the city.
     

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