Hi Thinking...

I understand where you are coming from regarding hanging strong in the congregation. Your examples do give reasoning to staying strong inside of the org. even though you can see the idolatry. However, it's not that simple because there are just as strong reasoning points that can be used to look at it from the other side of the coin.

(2Co 6:14-18) “. . .Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be′li·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” 17 “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’” 18 “‘And I shall be a father to YOU, and YOU will be sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah the Almighty.””
​

In essence, it comes down to a conscience matter of what a person is willing to accept as clean worship to their God. Also, many are not given the opportunity to remain because they speak out against the untruths being spoken by the society. Your perspective to just sit and wait it out could also be viewed as 'lukewarm'.

On which side does a person stand when he just sits there???

By no means am I saying you are lukewarm for wanting to stay inside the congregation, for by doing so your life will be much easier regarding your social life. Those who speak out and are labeled as apostate are essentially thrown into the wilderness whether they like it or not. The story of Joseph could be a good example perhaps.

 

I forgot to mention “the remnant” spoken of as the “little remnant” or “few true believers” by Coffman. Some of these will be a part of the 144,000 mentioned in Rev 7:3-4. Part of the others will likely be a part of the great crowd/multitude mentioned in Rev 7:9. Although it says a “multitude”; ochlos (okh’los) in Greek, meaning “the common people, as opposed to the rulers and leading men.”

“Be broken, O peoples, and be shattered; And give ear, all remote places of the earth. Gird yourselves, yet be shattered; Gird yourselves, yet be shattered.” (Isa 8:9 NASB )

“And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.” ( Isa 10:20-21 DNKJV )

“Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, ‘Though the number of the sons of Israel be like the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved;’” ( Rom 9:27 NASB )

“In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.” ( Rom 11:5 NASB ) Paul was speaking of these as a remnant of Spiritual Israel. I believe there will come a time (tribulation) when “the rubber meets the road”, as the saying goes. That's when their “true colors come shining through”. Although the WTS is not perfect, they are closer than any other religious organization on the earth. If Jehovah and Jesus are backing any of those who claim to have the truth, JW’s/WTS are the ones.

 

Hello christo,
Sorry if I came over rather harsh In The other thread..please accept this as my apology....I just get so annoyed when ones think that staying is so easy...when it is the hardest of things to do....or one is Luke warm...when one remains with in the cong.....knowing what we know...when it is indeed the opposite...am I really just sitting there ??
What I am doing is what Jesus asked of me ...that is to preach the good news and help make disciples....I may not be very good at it but I try....and I don't have to teach un truths either ..and I don't...I have a different type of ministry now Cristo....I beleive it is the one Christ really wanted us to teach.....GOOD NEWS.....I try to make his name known...and teach about the Kingdom and the purpose of living ....many who know what we know do this.

I go to meetings to encourage and up build each other to do good works.....no Our meetings are not like the original ones....sadly...and at times they are intensely frustrating for me.....but at this point....Jehovah has not removed them...or the preaching work....so it seems it's not his time to act just yet...and so I have to endure...until he does...because we are not there just for ourselves...but for others....


It is true what you say...shamefully a number have been disfellowshipped because they point out the wrongs and the corruption and wrong beliefs etc......but have not the scriptures already warned them of the danger of doing so....what did they achieve in speaking up....indeed was it even required from Jehovah to do that.....

AMOS 5:13
Therefore those with insight will keep silent at that time. For it will be a time of calamity...

Psalms 73.....this is a good book to read with the state of Gods house in at the moment..here Asaph or David ( not sure which one wrote this ) clearly can see what you see amongst his own people...he was so frustrated and down hearted with the conditions he was witnessing ..he even wondered what was the point in keeping his own heart pure...vs 14 says he was troubled all day long over these things...( just as you are cristo)

Yet note what verses 15,16,17 says....and it's a good warning for all of us here...

But if I had said these things I WOULD HAVE BETRAYED YOUR PEOPLE when I was trying to understand it it was troubling me until I entered the grand sanctuary of God and I discerned their future.
Surely you place them on slippery ground you make them fall to their ruin..


Cristo this is one I love...it is from the Message bible ....I love the message bible...as it just lays it all on the line...straight to the point...
Amos 5:
Justice is a lost cause Evil is epidemic Decemt people throw up their hands
PROTEST AND REBUKE ARE USELESS, A WASTE OF BREATH....

CRISTO time and time again he has warned us on how to act amongst his corrupt house...His house..his people have ALWAYS become corrupt ....it's the pattern....and his faithful ones have had to endure in those corrupt houses.....Anna the prophetess..also Simeon....they stayed and were both rewarded with seeing and holding baby Jesus .

I had a big mouth when I found out a lot of this corruptness......I soon learnt it served no Purpose...nor is it what the scriptures seem to indicate for us to do...indeed from what I have read in the last eight years is the opposite...
Who are you or I to speak up against what Jehovah is allowing at this time...many are prepared to bare the sins of the society..yet are they also prepared to publicly bare their own sins before the world....
Or lido wm master our frustrations and righteous anger...and humbly acknowledge it is not our right to do what only Jehovah has the right to...
If Jesus would not even Condem Satan over Moses body ...then who are we to condemn or leave of from Jehovah's House that he is allowing to still stand.

As far a Corinthians...it was a congregation with many troubles...as our congs are...they were tolerating idol worship..and inter marriage..along with many other things......Paul was talking TO THE CONGREGATION......he was telling them to clean up their act....
I'm sure we both know he would be saying the same thing to the congs nowadays....he wasn't telling any one to leave that cong

You are actively doing what Paul requested from the Corinthian congregation .....your heart felt disgust and sorrow has been noted by the man in Linen....the man with the inkhorn.....
Cristo ...where were those who received the mark...
Ezekiel 9:4
Jehovah said to him Go thru the CITY, through JERUSALEM and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things done IN THE CITY.....

it is easy to leave Cristo...I know ..I did....and my life was much more peaceful and less stressful....and my social life was very full and exciting......it was excruciating to go back ....but I have no doubt that I was directed back by Jehovah....

For those of us who know what we know and have chosen to stay...or in my case go back ...it takes guts and backbone...no person lukewarm would be able to do that...

Jehovah does have a house Cristo..and once upon a time he drew you to that house... even tho he knew that house was corrupt when he drew you to it....

 

Yes it is everyone's personal opinion wether to stay or go ....but
I will ALWAYS encourage any of my brothers and sisters to stay with in Gods house ...I don't care if your charter tells me not to....and if you are so affronted by this...best you remove me from this site....

 

This song was released just about the time I fought the good fight with the org. I don’t know if my words fell on deaf ears or not. I tend to think they did. So, I gave up for 24 years. I’ve found another way to fight the good fight. I do what I can with the weapons of truth and faith in Jehovah God Almighty and his first born of all creation, Jesus the Christ.

This one is for all out there hoping for the Kingdom rule to come.

Fight The Good Fight - Triumph

 

Aaah BroT..I am very frond of you....when Jesus returns.jesus says he will,gather many lost sheep,back to him...some are so,damaged and mentally assulted they may not cope with going back....he knows them...but he is already gathering many back who he knows are capable of the effort...he doesn't ask anything of us that we cannot give.....but he also wants to refine us..as if the gold of Ophir....he wants to bring us thru the fire....
But you know what...the WT study admitted today many had been hurt in the org and been stumbled by others...it was a wheat watch tower...it bought out a scripture I had not read before....if I did I had missed the point ..I'll like to
share it with you...and I hope cristo is listening ...
I beleive this is David speaking here...but it could be many of us on this forum..I know this was once me...
He is full of sorrow and his pain at his betrayal from his own brothers in faith....it is extremely intense

Ps 55 :12 for it is not an enemy that taunts me ..otherwise I could put up with it....it is not a foe who has risen up against me ...otherwise I could conceal myself from him.

13 but it is with you a man like me MY OWN COMPANION WHOM I KNOW WELL ..we used to enjoy a warm friendship together into the house of God we used to walk along with the multitude
15 May destruction overtake them ..let them go down alive into Sheol....for evil resides amongst them and with in them...
16 as for me I will call out to God and Jehovah will save me
17 evening and morning and noontime I am troubled and I groan and he hears my voice
18 He will rescue me and give me peace from those fighting against me ..for the multitudes come against me...


Now keep in mind it was the society themselves that quoted these scriptures for ones who have been wronged in the society..and they acknowledge that this has happened ( this was Jehovah allowing the wheat to talk)

A few years ago at One of our day assemblies a CO got up and said they knew the Organization had a lot wrong with it..and they were trying to correct things ..and they didn't think it would be all corrected in this old system...but they were trying ....

They also had a brother come on and say that he didn't agree with the prophecies that were taught by Jehovah's people...he thought we had a lot of things wrong.
The CO asked why he stayed....and he said...because I know it's his house.....and I hope one day Jehovah will take action and correct things....

Anyway this is your personal choice and I respect that...but you know me....I will always try to get you to see you are needed back at his house....he has a work for us to do in the near future ...some of the genuine brothers and sisters will need help,soon....why do I have the front and gall to speak up like this.....because there is not one person on this site that was as bitter and angry and hateful as I was ....but Jehovah turned me around...not me...Jesus showed me the wheat and the weeds and it's true meaning...long before I knew of ewatchman. Perimeno or any of these forums....I learnt to see the big picture. He taught me His big picture....and not my own personal torture dungeon...

It really is easier when we know about the wheat and the weeds....step over the weeds my brother....because there is mighty fine loving kind wheat there....they are the little ones in the congs...often forgotten....so who,is there to helpthem if we all leave?.....
Jesus went to,these ones ..he ignored the leaders..the men of power......he showed us how we today can do it...
Yet I respect your decision...big hug to you..

 

Hey Thinking,
Thanks for your thoughts. It is encouraging to hear from Jehovah’s word. One of my problems is that I am a fighter. My wife always tells me to quit talking. But, when I see something wrong, I speak out. That’s what caused the problems for me. At this time I’m not ready to deal with the org. I’ll treat E-JW as the congregation I attend. I will leave it up to Jehovah to guide me. There have been some interesting things happen to me lately that I believe Jehovah is showing me the way. One was to give up on the Baptists.
I know the lesson of the wheat and tares. The tares (weeds) have deep roots and suck up all the water. The wheat suffers from being too close and become dehydrated and die. It takes a firm hand to remove them and get water to the wheat.

 

Hi Tsaphah,

I have a similar way of looking at this as you.
I really do not want to argue about this as that really is unproductive in this online congregation.
Sorry if My simple comment upset you thinking.
It seems to me that the most important thing is to encourage one another to not be teaching that we should be trying to please men no matter who they are. Our obligation is to Jehovah and Jesus and to let their living words of truth guide how we think.

Have a blessed day.

Joe

 

Easy to leave??? It's not easy at all to leave all your brothers and sisters who have become dear friends. It's not easy at all to live in the world and not let yourself be influenced by worldly people who do not know Jehovah. Easy???? NO not EASY! Just because a person isn't a Jehovahs Witness anymore doesn't mean they aren't a witness of Jehovah in the world.

For those of us who were forced to leave, how would you recommend we get back? How does one go into a judicial committee which will be formed when that person requests to be reinstated? For example...1914 and EVERYTHING associated with it is completely false. When they ask me if I believe the FDS is the arrangement by Jehovah to teach his people, and that the Watchtower is the tool used to disseminate those teachings, how do I say yes when the very Watchtower talks about 1914 as the beginning of the Kingdom of God.

I'm doing miserably in the world. I miss my brothers and sisters, they were my family, but a few of those friends also were elders on my judicial committee to disfellowship me for asking the wrong questions, which ties in quite nicely with Ps 55:13 you posted. Or perhaps maybe they were the right questions, depends on how you look at it.

To be honest I would love to come back just to be able to associate with the brothers and sisters again, but I would be marked because I wouldn't be able to stand there and have them tell me that 1914 is the truth and then nod as if I agree, even though I know it is not.

How did you get back without agreeing to everything they said or asked?

 

Amen to that Cristo.

One would have to recant speaking truth and accept that the governing body are who they say they are.

Persecution is preferable to denying what the anointing spirit is teaching us.

I personally do not believe they are faithful or discreet.

And yet that is my mind and decision and I will stand alone before Jehovah and Jesus - I recognize that everyone gets to choose what is most important to them. I know and love many brothers and sisters who are in the wilderness because they know and understand that we do not at this time have a earthly city to go too and so we are waiting for the one that is from heaven - which is not the watchtower organization.

Have a blessed day.

Joe

 

Please forgive me crisro....for I did not know you were disfellowshipped .....and I can only imagine the massive loneliness that your are experiencing...I personally left on my own accord....my son was pushed/ chased/ bullied out..and could not do anything to be found acceptable,to our bad elders at that time...so I witmeseed the heartache the mental and emotional destruction and a complete and utter soul destroimg that ...one is forced to endure....and in his case ..not survive...by the way..he also,was not disfellowshipped as he was not even baptised...
Personally I didn't have to tell lies to go back....I didn't realise you would have go before a judicial committee to go back...that is a whole new and different ball game..

It's is easy to leave when One is not disfellowshipped...that is what I actually meant....because it is on that persons power to walk back in when and if they choose to...and not have to agree to anything....I'm going to leave here for a bit and make this a matter of deep prayer before I answer anymore...or cause you any more frustration ....
One thing I have learned thru my journey....is if one prays hard enough and begs him for,help....he will give you the way out of a certain seemingly hopeless,situation....there is an answer to this cristo.....there is always a way around certain problems...without beimg disloyal to Jehovah..or your new understandings...you do not have to sell yourself out...I,will return to you shortly.....but you are my BROTHER...and I am your SISTER...and as poor as it may be....we are socialising now and building each other up with genuine hearts and warm feelings...xx...no one can take that away from you........I,so,respect your post and words...your feelings...and will appeal,to,Jehovah for you... xx

 

Hi Cristo,
I know how you feel. I’ve been there myself. The words to this song says it all. I’ve felt this way for a long time. But, rejoice! There is a congregation that you can attend. It’s here and now. We only call out those who do not worship Jehovah and His Son Jesus Christ. We believe in the Word of God as the only truth in the world. You can still be a witness of Jehovah the true God Almighty who created all living things. It is because of Jehovah that ALL things, physical and spiritual, exist.

The only thing we will hold against anyone is illogical/weird ideas about what the Bible teaches, or fake trinitarians claiming to be Witnesses.

I Am a Rock - Simon & Garfunkel

 

That's utter rubbish BTG...no one has to recant anything....you stated you were sorry that your simple statement upset me on the other post...you know why you upset me BTG...because I know the game you are playing on here...you don't fool me...