Matthew 10:23 and the Modern-Day Follower of Jesus

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Earthbound, Jul 30, 2017.

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    Earthbound

    Earthbound Guest

    "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes."
    — Matthew 10:23, NASB
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    In recent weeks, I've read of accounts of Jehovah's Witnesses, now under ban in Russia, enduring vandalism and harassment, yet I see no indication of the Watchtower admonishing the brothers and sisters to flee Russia now that they are, indeed, being persecuted.

    Why is there some sort of organizational honor to staying and if you are killed for disregarding the counsel Jesus himself gave, you are upheld as an example of the ideal Christian, the one who was willing to stand for truth and be killed rather than betray their integrity as "one of Jehovah's Witnesses?"

    As I understand it, martyrdom is what happens when you've done everything you can to flee persecution and they take your life from you because you refused to deny Jesus was the Messiah or that you were one of his followers. You were killed for your faith and not for staying in harm's way to get yourself killed for your faith. To me, there's a point-worthy difference.

    I could ask the same of those among other Christian groups who intentionally place or leave themselves in the path of persecution when our Exemplar directed his own disciples to flee from where they were being persecuted.

    What of those who would flee, if they could afford to? What are Jehovah's Witnesses doing as an organization to expedite the flight of their brothers and sisters from Russia now that their work is under ban? Or does the Watchtower expect them to stand firm, even if it means they could very well die or face destitution? And should they face destitution as the persecution escalates, does the Watchtower do as the apostle Paul did and bring a love offering from the outlying congregations of the region to help Jewish followers of Jesus, and organize charity work for their organizational members?

    I'd love to hear your thoughts on Matthew 10:23 and the modern-day follower of Jesus.

    Submitted for your perusal and consideration,
    ~~Earthbound
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    Because this disrupts their Spiritual Paradise fallacy.
     
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    Earthbound

    Earthbound Guest

    Would you elaborate, please? This is an unhelpful assertion for me, sorry.

    ~~Earthbound
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    The Watchtower has taught that JWs live in a spiritual Paradise, a place where nothing goes wrong. Of course the numerous sex abuse cases and banning of JWs in Russia disprove this.
     
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    Earthbound

    Earthbound Guest

    Okay...? And the Catholics teach that the pope is a direct continuation of papal authority going back to the apostle Peter. The Baptists teach that everyone who isn't saved is headed for hell. The Mormons teach that polygamy is acceptable among believers today. And I could go on, but the point is that every Christian group has its own blindspot that they cannot see past.

    Do you know what yours is?

    ~~Earthbound
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    I'm not debating denominations.

    You said, "yet I see no indication of the Watchtower admonishing the brothers and sisters to flee Russia now that they are, indeed, being persecuted."

    And I answered you, "Because this disrupts their Spiritual Paradise fallacy."
     
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    Earthbound

    Earthbound Guest

    I hadn't realized this was a debate about denominations, but rather that I can point to any group asserting their Christianity and identify the same pitfalls as you seem to infer are somehow exclusive to the Watchtower organization.

    My position is that they are just like other Christian groups who have their own "unique" doctrines to identify who is with them and who is an outsider to their respective group, who is saved and who isn't, who's in charge and who isn't, who's the real McCoy, ad nauseaum.

    Whenever you attempt to create unity through uniformity rather than the kind of love Jesus said his followers would have, you are bound to see problems develop.

    This is an assertion which I am still waiting for you to elaborate beyond your asserting that it is so.

    ~~Earthbound
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    .... You are asking questions about Jehovah's Witnesses, I gave you an answer. I never said this is a debate about denominations. You are the one comparing JWs to other denominations when I gave you my reply, in turn I said I'm not debating (responding) to that.

    The Watchtower has built an imaginary world, a world where there are no problems, no injustices – a spiritual paradise, so-called. Like many of the cults that exist in Satan’s world the Watchtower has convinced Jehovah’s Witnesses that all their problems, all wrongs and injustices, are on the outside – in Satan’s world. So, the solution to oppression and discouragement can only be found in the kingdom hall. But now that there are no Kingdom Halls in Russia, there is no Spiritual Paradise. Obviously, this is a stark contradiction on their part now, and since this is such a huge problem in their imaginary world where there are no problems and no injustices, the best way to keep their false doctrine alive is to ignore the situation in Russia.
     
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    Earthbound

    Earthbound Guest

    When I did so, it was to provide examples of other groups of Christians who likewise have their pet dogmas. It would be unjust for us to mete out judgment and condemnation on the Watchtower while turning a blind eye to the errant doctrines throughout other groups trying to follow Jesus and serve God.

    Whether you take that as an attempt to start "a debate about denominations," it is not written with that intent. It is an inclusive look at all Christian groups who hold doctrines and views to keep themselves fenced off from other Christians.

    The Watchtower can make any assertion it wants, but it is the congregants who must consent— a point I am trying to discuss in the topic on schisms.

    But if we can get back to the actual topic of discussion, how do you account for Christians who determine to remain where they are being persecuted rather than fleeing? And what does it say of any group of Christian believers who could rescue those related to them in faith, but allow them to remain?

    ~~Earthbound
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    What are people supposed to do? They are in a different country on the other side of the world. You can't just pay for their air ticket. It's not that simple.
     
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    Earthbound

    Earthbound Guest

    One would be astonished at what can be achieved when you put enough heads and will together to solve a problem. After all, if anything, the Watchtower knows how to organize.

    But you still haven't answered my question about why a Christian would willingly remain where they are being persecuted, contrary to the counsel of Jesus to flee in full confidence that they will not (as his followers, as a whole) run out of (cities of refuge) before Jesus comes.

    ~~Earthbound
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    Reformation is impossible. No amount of pleaing will change the Watchtower's false views. Maybe another century until this overlapping generation dies.

    Where is a Christian being persecuted? If you mean Russia, People can't just get up and leave Russia. They have made it very difficult to do so.

    Persecution in the congregation is different. They will force you out for speaking against the Pharisees.
     
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    Baruq

    Baruq Member

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    It would means circa 200'000 persons should leave country, family, secular work, and for going where? I think that it is not so easy. And there is not only Russia, but Corea, Erythrea …
    I don't think that in Russia JW are killed. They are persecuted because they study the Bible with the Watchtower's publications and that these are forbidden. Maybe they can study the Bible only, using another version than that of the Watchtower, preach not from door to door but occasionally when they have the opportunity, gather not in KH, but in small groups of max 10 individuals, not doing formally reunions, but staying together while they are eating, for example.
     

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