OK, just because a majority opposes a view, it doesn't necessarily mean those opponents are wrong. We have to assess whether there is any genuine validity to the arguments. If the minority's claims are demonstrably untrue or the evidence has been manipulated, suppressed or prevented from being made available for experts to assess independently, then you should smell a very putrid rat. Christianity and its faithful would surely benefit enormously from such a discovery. I think Prof. Morris sums it up well: "The potential discovery would have incredible impact. Not only would it demolish evolution's foundation of uniformitarianism, but since the Ark is such a precious picture of Christ, i.e. the method of salvation for believers during time of judgment of sin, its discovery would focus the attention of many on our present day Ark of Salvation, Jesus Christ." It would certainly make Bible skeptics sit up and take notice at the very least. Therefore, it is in the discoverers' interests that they play straight with their findings and act professionally. That they apparently haven't done so means that they would rather sway people's opinions with rumor, sensationalism and supposition rather than with verifiable evidence.
Hi AnnOMaly, You know, I don't believe this is the Ark of Noah because Ron Wyatt says that. He is no authority for me. But I base my belief on a few facts: For me it is enough that there is a boat shape that corresponds to the length mentioned in the Bible and that it is where the Bible says it should be on the mountains of Ararat. In my approach to matters I try to be simple and effective. I think the biblical rule of two or three witnesses is good when you have to determine if you should believe or not. When you have two or three irrefutable facts, you should be able to decide to believe. When Jesus was confronted with why he should be believed he said two witnesses is enough infact. 17 Also, in YOUR own Law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is true.’ 18 I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.†John 8 The same rule Jesus said in Matt 18:16 : "in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established." Judges in Israel had to decide in matters about death and life. And Jehovah gave them this simple rule. The judges had to believe even when the only evidences were two or three witnesses. So that's what I try to have as a rule to decide doctrine and beliefs. But of course it feels good to have more evidences to strengthen a certain belief. But to be effective and productive it is good if you can believe with only two or three evidences. Once you have believed a new thing, you can go further to examine the next. And your spiritual speed of progress will be good.
its exciting yet speculative news! in a short time we here will be getting some evidence or resin casts of the stones petrafied planks and the names of the eight on those anchors. or we will get nothing but excuses and we will know its a big scam for publicly and money.. I for one hope for good news that yes it's Noah's ark and now we have physical evidence of the flood story like the bible says. their are those skeptical that the evidence is genuine and not made up. I don't blame you one bit for being agnostic (show me proof) but this is something good to hope for so if you are one who wants to see proof first fine and good.. but let's all hope for what would bring honor to God.
Hi Jan, You said your belief is based on 'a few facts.' You have given only one potential 'fact.' Regarding this 'fact,' 1. How are you sure you have the right 'Ararat'? 2. Being boat-shaped means nothing if it is a naturally carved geological feature of stone rather than a man-made one of wood (albeit petrified wood). Simple and effective is good. So with regard to this discovery, what are the 'two or three irrefutable witnesses' that testify this is indeed the real deal Noah's ark?
to this date nobody has produced to the public anything but pictures. that's why I say let's just wait and see if real relics show up in exhibition. the object that they are digging on that looks like a boat has yielded to the public only web shots and hearsay but its nice to hope that it turns out to be Noah's genuine remains. I have been following this site for 24 years and while I would not say its % 100 sure I would say its worth buying every single 1 oz Noah silver coin you can. if it turns out to be a fake you will have world most unpopular round that will make it worth plenty! if it turns out to be the real ark you will have 1 st issue silver. so as to having irrefutable witnesses no one on earth is that. but their sure ain't nothing wrong investing in a pretty silver coin and being a little richer latter. but a little common sense here do you think that a little country that already is not so popular would risk putting it government treasure on the line if they did not think it pretty darn sure? you know the saying money talks and hot air walks! nobody is going to risk minting money unless they had a good idea that the silver round would continue popular. its just not good business to give up what little silver and gold you have in exchange for paper. that my friends is the biggest evidence in favor of it being genuine. why would Armenia sell off its precious metal to get the floundering dollar? it just would not. not unless they knew that their coin would be highly desired.. that says yes to me. my vote is its real.
The irrefutable facts as I already told you are the length of the boat shape formation on the ground and the place, that it is near the mount Ararat. For more information see the official site of Ron Wyatt's museum. The link is below: http://wyattmuseum.com/noahsark.htm Do you believe Jesus existed? Do you believe he resurrected? Many are not content with the evidence that was left. Why did Jesus not prove to the Jews in general that he was resurrected, but only to his followers? How do we know that the followers of Jesus did not invent his resurrection? For me it is almost easier to believe that the boat shaped formation near the Mount Ararat is the remains of Noah's Ark because I can see it in pictures. But I have never seen real photos of Jesus, Or video tapes of him as resurrected. What would be easier to believe to a person that has never heard about Jesus and the Ark of Noah, if today's evidences would be presented to him? I think it would be easier to believe that the Ark has been found, because you can see the boat shape formation. But you cannot see Jesus resurrected. But I don't doubt that Jesus was resurrected, and I believe likewise that these are the remains of Noah's Ark. I suggest you to investigate the claims infavor for this discovery, before you listen to all that try to discredit it. The opponents are of the same sort as the evolutionists. They won't cease from their resistance, no matter what.
Certainly there is a boat shape and certainly it is to be found near one of the mountains of Ararat. Those two facts are irrefutable. However, the structure is made of rock. It is made from the mountain. It is not composed of fossilized wood. It is not man-made. Therefore, it is not an Ark. Wyatt's findings have been debunked. Please refer the links I provided. Even reputable figures in the Creationist movement have exposed Wyatt's conclusions as wholly mistaken! What do you make of this human face-shaped formation on Mars? Is it almost easier to believe that a civilization once existed there because a man's face is clearly pictured or ... ? Do you see the point?
annomaly, That's only one picture, I would like to see more of that from different angels before I say what that is. But I would not be surprised if some from preflood civilization made trips to mars. People are now quite near to achieve that. But I would need some more evidence. But the issue would not be of the same importance, because it has no direct link to strengthening faith in God's word the Bible. But what about you, do you believe in the Bible, including what it says about the deluge and the ark Noah built?
its my belief that the face on mars is the work of the wicked angels who left earth. its my opinion that they played around up their and built some monuments for fun. I don't think mars had humanoid life . but as for the Noah's ark stuff from space that looks like a boat. we have a big difference. you can't go to mars to see what that face is.. but you can go to Armenia and see what you can see. the site is a state park of Armenia. their are rules about public excavations but you are free to Veiw it take pictures . so let's wait and see if it turns out to be the real deal.
I just read were you said that the boat shape at the Armenian site is a natural rock formation. that's a big no! the Armenian site has great beams of petrafied wood with metal fasteners anchor stones with names on them. and red and yellow plastic construction tape marking the underground beams and walls taken and marked in 2012 when the 3 news networks started getting interested.. I will try to get you some of the close up video links. I hear that their is now a 24 hour video feed. I will see if I can find some links for you all. I've got only my phone but it should work to post at least the addresses.
Hi Ari: Nice thought, who knows what the face on Mars is, and once more who cares? It does not matter. One thing is sure though, the angels that sinned in Noah's time did not make it as they have been confined to Tartarus/Gehenna ever since... via Jude 5,6 Although you are fully aware of all of this, I want to remind you that Jehovah,* having saved a people out of the land of Egypt,+ afterward destroyed those not showing faith.+ 6 And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place,+ he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the judgment of the great day. Jude 5,6 frank
hey frank the wicked angels were loose for like 500 years had lots of power in those days they could have built stuff on other planets before the flood they had plenty of power before god stuck them in prison. but while you are here maybe you can tell me why Jehovah would let angels come down and do as they pleased to men? and animals?
their is a group in California that's claiming to have analyzed the Armenian site and proved that it's a totally natural mineral deposit. they say that the nails embedded in the beams are the result of natural iron and the 8by 8 beams every 4 feet are the result of lava flow and limestone. they say that the graveyard and markers are all forgery's to generate a publicity tour and bring in money.. OK so be it the Turkish Armenian government has officially said this is Noah's ark and they will allow reputable archaeological to study and conduct tests. however the public is asked to look and take pictures. while American and UK scientists make a definition determination by straight core sample from the side to the other side. wait and be paitant won't be but a year or so.
Hi Ari: I suppose you could be correct, they could have done somethng "before" they came to earth, but I am sure they did not do it "after" they left their proper dwelling place. After they did, they were not permitted back into the angelic realm but were consigned to a "soulless" existence in Tartarus/Gehenna. frank
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/napart1.htm. here is a fairly decent site with some nice information please read letter 10. I explained the lack of rings in the petrified wood a while back but he does a better job. also the metal analysis specially that titanium stuff. no way in Tarnation's can titanium just evolve to % 75 purity.. the findings of lots of titanium and alloy slag in the hold(radar) shows somebody used tons of man-made titanium slag as ballast. now how the heck can their be tons of advanced alloy slag buried under all those 8 by 8 stone beams? it takes a blazeing electric furnace to melt that stuff. no volcanic activities can explain that. and theirs no natural explanation for square 8 by 8 beams limestone petrafied wood calcite or whatever their still 8 by 8 square beams placed every 4 feet. that would be some great evolution! check out that old arciologists letters pictures etc. no wonder the Turkish government declared it a treasure and built a road and has daily tours. their is sure something sitting their that all those tourists are paying good money to see! if it was just a pile of old rocks like some claim people would go home after the first day! but they stay and travel the tour hey that must be one interesting pile of rocks to pay 5000$ to book and stay. hey now frank I don't know about that martian face it doesn't excite me! but something on earth that yells oldest bible relic hey that's worth me saving my money to see. I've never had a vacation unless you count 40 days in jail l.o.l but I want to go take the tour. and I'm going with a high resolution camera set of glasses. I'm going to get the best clearest pictures that the internet has. I'm going to walk the whole 6 miles and get hours of Good pictures. by the time I go my hair will be white again and when I slowly walk up that trail with my Turkish robe and walking staff. nobody will pay much attention to me I'm going to look like an old Armenian taking a hike so that I can spend as much time as I can just getting good pictures. the digicam glasses I bought in 2012 I can see straight and the pictures will be very nice. in looking forward to next year!
I'm replying to both Jan and jig in this post to keep it all together (and I find threaded mode harder to follow than linear). Very wise, and you can. There are some recent pictures from NASA that have resolved the issue. Google. Similarly, a boat-shaped structure would have to be closely examined to see if it is indeed a boat. The issue has been resolved by credible geologists. It is not a boat. I really have stepped into the Twilight Zone here, haven't I? You are aware of all the orbiters and the rovers trundling around and exploring Mars as we speak? As I just said to Jan, NASA has resolved the issue now. It has already turned out NOT to be the real deal. It has turned out to be made entirely of rock and formed by natural processes. The claim was found to be false. False. The materials the experts were allowed to analyze were vaguely reminiscent of a 'fastener' shape and were of natural origin - not man-made. The other alleged metal rods (if they exist at all) have not been produced for independent scientific examination. (Obi Wan voice) These are not the drogues you're looking for. The stelae consist of material indigenous to the Ararat region and are common throughout pre-Christian, pagan Armenia. The holes were to hold lamps and the stelae were frequently used in cemeteries in Christian times. That's why crosses have been engraved on them (no names, though). Genuine drogue stones are smaller and have a hole bored further down to avoid easy breakage in tumultuous waters. It's old news and the claims have already been refuted. See also http://www.creationtips.com/notark.html http://creation.com/special-report-amazing-ark-expose Note that these are Creationist, Bible-believing sites. They would love for this Ark discovery to be genuine ... but it ain't.
Ann I located the site on the internet were you are getting the information . that's the site were some California people went out of their way to disprove that the boat shape is anything but a but a natural formation.. OK let's say its natural. is the certified mineralogy tests that say their is a large quantity of titanium slag fake? its been done over and over. 25 ft down they get titanium slag with Concentration's up to%75 I am inclined to believe that they are accurate since I've been following that site for 25 years. I read about 15 different tests none are exactly the same numbers but everyone say this supposedly natural formation has tons of titanium slag a few feet down. so what did the turks do bring in cranes bulldozers and front end loaders? dig up a football field sized hole and fill it with artificial made metal then rebury it and shape it to lock like a boat so they could generate a hoax a sell silver bullion? that's 10 times more ludicrous then the idea that its the remains of Noah's ark! I'm just a bit of an agnostic! if I do not personally see and handle smell hear and taste it I don't believe it_! I'm not easy to fool! over the years I've received enough pictures document copies slivers of materials etc to. cast my vote not natural. man-made thousands of years old and worth me paying to go see! now just back to that mars junk NASA did not tell us what happened with the $18 billion dollar probe that was lost in the midst of their cries of poor and broke! not one word until certain people unnamed pounded the internet night and day with clear pictures of the comet that would pass by earth at half a million miles per hour! finally NASA admitted publicly that the probe was not aimed at mars in the first place but instead the comet. its mission was to pass close by and explode! ( heavyweight nuke) to blow it off its close path to earth. this comet crashed on Jupiter and was destroyed. had it passed by us I million miles away earth would have had 6 mile high tidal waves and we wouldn't be typeing silly storylines about Noah's face on Mars and a boatload of red martian dirt in turkey with dressings on it. we would be dead. NASA did not tell us about that. do you think they would tell you if they found a broken down image of apothos_? or the god mars made by the renegade angels? no yup its a natural rock formation and two mountain peaks that cast a shadow that looks like a face! (were have I heard this story before)?duh? and last question its thought that gold on earth comes from meteors and meteorites that melted and sank to the core when earth was young.. so why is the moon not just dripping with gold from all its meteors fallen? why does the moon have crater holes that should be full of metals from meteors yet they contain nothing but dust! their is no atmosphere to burn those rocks up so why isn't the moon scattered with iron shards bits of gold and other metals? yup that's right we really are in the twilight zone were the impossible just became real. oh woe to the earth the devil has come down to you! to play mind games on you so that you can't tell the differences between a natural formation and a manmade devils shadow from fake watchers that helped Noah then got to go back to heaven for helping him.
annomaly, why do you still try to convince me that this is not the Ark? Have you not realized that I am 100% sure it is Noah's ark? Just one hour ago they showed on viasat history here in Sweden this Ark. And the channel had experts from both sides, those supporting the possibility and those not supporting the possibility that it is Noah's ark. On opponent had a silly argument that it could not be Noah's ark because the rivet from the ship was containing iron because he claimed when Noah lived the iron age had not yet begun. Ar other expert from the creationist's side refused to accknowledge it is Noah's ark, because he claims the ark could not be boat shaped. But who then built that ship, 300 cubits long as the Bible says the Ark of Noah was? And how did it end there on the mountains of Ararat? At least those at viasat history agree that it is not a natural formation, but a shipwreck. And for me jt is clair it is a shipwreck. But I am also a good at technical things. So it is not difficult for me to conclude that it is a shipwreck. I don't care what stupid "experts" would claim. It is like the evolutionists that claim that life appeared by accident And you annomaly, you have still not answered if you at all believe Noah exsisted, and if you believe he built an Ark and if the deluge happened. You tell us first that, so we know what your intentions are.
From the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew; kibotos, of uncertain derivation; a box, i.e. the sacred ark and that of Noah:--ark. (Ge 6:14, 15, etc.) Mathematically, the dimensions are interesting, 300 cubits by 50 cubits by 30 cubits. Those numbers converted into feet are 450 feet by 75 feet by 45 feet. The Hebrew word used 23 times in Genesis, all in the account of the container which Noah and his sons constructed, is taybah. It is of uncertain or foreign derivation. The only other place it occurs is 2 times in Exodus, concerning the container that Moses was placed as an infant. According to Coffman’s commentaries on Ex 2:3,5; he says “This was a chest made of the stalks of the papyrus reed which grows profusely along the banks of the Nile.†It’s purpose was not to “sail awayâ€. As the account states, “. . .placed it among the reeds by the bank of the Nile River.†She didn’t want it to go downstream. The argument could be made that the Ark of the Covenant is similar. It’s not. It is a different Hebrew word, ‘arown (aw-rone’). This particular word is comes from the root word a ‘arah, meaning to pluck or gather. It is associated with the Ark of the Covenant. (Ex 25:10, etc.) It occurs over 200 times in the Hebrew scriptures and is associated with the Ark of the Covenant 194 times, a chest 6 times, and a coffin 1 time. (Ge 50:26) In the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew; kibotos is used as the translation pertaining to the Ark of the Covenant. In all the translation of these words, whether taybah, or ‘arown, they refer to a box shape. Paul wrote to the Hebrews, “Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen.†(Heb 11:1 NWT) Do you need to see evidence that the ark really did exist, to believe it to be true? Is that necessary to build your faith? Jesus addressed this issue. “Nevertheless, when the Son of man arrives, will he really find this faith on the earth?†(Lu 18:8b NWT) Maybe Noah was hoping for this; [video=youtube;XmWtg7StWlk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmWtg7StWlk[/video]