New Donation Arrangement

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by wallflower, May 8, 2014.

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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    I noticed that this week's Bible reading is taken from Exodus chapter 25 - where Jehovah said to Moses that he was to instruct Israel to take up a contribution.

    At the same meeting, the letter about the new donation arrangement was read from the platform. Each household has to write down a figure as to how much they will be donating (a pledge) each month. This is supposed to be done in an anonymous manner.

    The brother said that this was proof that "Jehovah's chariot was speeding up and that we had to keep pace with it."

    Sounded like a liquidation strategy to me - donations can fluctuate in size and frequency whereas a pledge is more consistent.

    Wallflower
     
  2. Hi All:

    Pretty soon you'll receive your "donation envelopes" with your names printed on them like we used to get from the Catholic Church. Oh how the society is becoming more and more like the old whore every day, good little daughter. The Catholic Church is no doubt the Mother of the harlots and it's getting easier to identify her kids.

    frank
     
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Hi all,

    Yes Frank - I believe you are correct in your estimation of the watchtower organization.

    Sounds like she is described in Micah:

    Micah 2:
    10 Get up and go, because this is not a resting-place. Because of the fact that she has become unclean, there is a wrecking; and [the] wrecking work is painful.


    Many have got up and gone and many more will.

    Have a nice day.

    Joe
     
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    jehovahisgod

    jehovahisgod Experienced Member

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    what happened to no collection plates? asking for a pledge is about the same thing! hey brothers and sisters if we are going to be like the nations church's we might just as well celebrate pagan holidays and engage in immorality also! when will Jehovah's witnesses stand up and say no we refuse to commit spiritual fornication! we must obey Jehovah as ruler and not men. I know their are some people out there that think that we have to obey or become apostates but people their is a way to worship Jehovah and you have learned it through bible study go out and wittness and meet with fellow Christians for support but really get honest the apostles learned how to preach in a year or so..why in tarnation are we still in a building listening to only god knows what when we should be out ministering! donations were is mine? I gave the wbts plenty of them my time my money only to find out that what I was preaching and doing was fattening up a bunch of already rich men and Jehovah got stuck back in the library with all the old books! I'm sick and tired of hearing about insults upon injury to the true good name of Jehovah I am so looking forward to Jesus leading us! its getting ridiculous. new rules new explanations what next a golden calf with Jehovah's name stamped on it!
     
  5. Hi JIG: You already have your golden calf, it's called by various names, the Governing Body, the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" etc., etc. .

    frank
     
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    jehovahisgod

    jehovahisgod Experienced Member

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    frank how sorrow full! what started out as a preacher and a few men preaching the bible grew into a 8 headed monster! a massive worldwide network that wears the name of the true god but how strange where is the charity toward the poor? were are the clothes ? were is the food for the hungry? Sir correct me if I'm wrong but if you take and solicit donations. then you should give them! not just to the head men that milk the sheep. but also to the common folk who ask! we are the needy ones so were is our donations? when a kingdom hall is sold do they gather together the members and distribute the sales price to each man and women? no ! but in the apostles time they took everything and made a common fund! so how is the organization that bares gods name really like Jesus? all they give is written materials! but holy cow! they tell us to give up our money and school and job and bow before them! isn't that what they did when Moses was on the mountain? they built a statue of a cow out of gold and said this represents Jehovah and they bowed down and danced for it? and was Jehovah happy about that? no! so tell me why is he pleased that we bow before a publishing company and say this represents Jehovah? lord Jesus open all our eyes so that we can see the thing that causes desolation standing in a place that Jesus should stand!
     
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    Londoner

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    Hi all :)

    I already give a modest amount each month by direct debit, please they get the tax (VAT). I'll just pledge the monthly amount I'm already giving! :rolleyes:


    Londoner
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    [video=youtube;p3KoJj4dz2I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3KoJj4dz2I[/video]
     
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    Firebird

    Firebird Guest

    Are you a "Webinar"?

    [video=youtube_share;ltcErJK87w8]http://youtu.be/ltcErJK87w8[/video]
    Let's do this!
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    We can go to far with this sort of reasoning in my mind.

    Churches need money.

    We need churches (you may not, but in general, mankind does).

    Primarily for fellowship, inspiring to fine works, brotherhood.

    Not debating that all things are acceptable, just that we shouldn't scoff at the need for funds by our respective church.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    WF correct me if I'm wrong here, but the impression I received from this letter was that they are pooling the various funds (worldwide, local, etc) into one fund?

    Is that wrong? I never picked up on the 'pledge' component, but I admittedly wasn't playing close attention (my mind wanders when the 'business' of the congregation is discussed)
     
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    jehovahisgod

    jehovahisgod Experienced Member

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    you know money has the whole world following after it. it is all a money thing donations earning it by work or stealing it. the money is more important to us then almost anything. yes we make a brave noise and say that Jehovah comes first..but when you sit down and stack up you job hours next to time spent in Jehovah's service.who wins? p.s please send all your spare donations to me I was told by god that I did not build him a solid crystal glass temple within a year I would die..... l.o.l
     
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    panda

    panda Guest

    hi the brother mentioned that there will be more resolutions in the coming weeks, stay tunned!!:confused:
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    Hi SingleCell

    I'm writing this from a financial perspective. I'm a fact-oriented person - hope I don't come across as sounding too blunt - apologies in advance if I do. :)

    At our Hall, it was explained that each head of the household is to write down a figure that they plan to donate/pledge on a monthly basis. All of these figures are combined, so as to work out what the congregation will donate each month. A portion of the funds is to be set aside to cover the utilities for the Hall but the remaining funds are to be sent to the Society. These funds are to be pooled with other funds received from other congregations worldwide.

    If a congregation has been saving for a future repair job or a refurbishment on the Hall, that money is now to be transferred to the Society also.

    By pooling all of that money together, it means that if a congregation wants to have a refurbishment, it now has to apply for permission from the Society to get authorisation to get funds for that project. The congregation will not be able to access funds needed for refurbishment from its own congregation account anymore.

    The pooling of the funds could be seen as just a consolidation move.

    But if I mentally project ahead into the future a little, I can see where issues might arise from that. The fact that there is now a centralised account that is authorised by the Society, means that the Society now has the control over all of the funds for the construction and refurbishment projects.

    A question that I have been wondering about is: what happens if a congregation doesn't perform financially (give as much) as the Society expects it to? Will the Hall be sold and liquidated because it isn't financially viable to keep the Hall and if the congregation isn't donating enough?

    Another question I wonder about: regarding those Halls that are still paying off a mortgage - what happens if the congregation's monthly donation doesn't cover the mortgage repayment? (I'm thinking that only the elders would know how much the mortgage payment would be, the rest of the congregation might not know how much that is.) Will the Hall be sold and liquidated?

    What if the Society makes a decision regarding a Kingdom Hall property and the body of elders disagrees with it? It has been recently announced from the platform that the Circuit Overseers are now authorised to appoint/delete elders (that decision is no longer made by the Branch.)

    So if a disagreement were to arise, it would be easy for the Circuit Overseer to say to the elders: "If you don't agree with the Society's decision on the Hall, you will all be deleted."

    Unfortunately, the Menlo Park Congregation (California, US) experienced this in 2010. There was a disagreement over a quote on a refurbishment - the body of elders disagreed with the Society, and they were all deleted by the Society. The congregation's property and assets were seized by the Society.

    The new donation arrangement does sound like a liquidation strategy to me.It also seems to me that the Society is in a hurry to set this arrangement up - the pledge slips are supposed to be in by the end of the month.

    The Society doesn't strike me as an organisation that is suffering financially. It has made 1.2 billion dollars from the sale of the Brooklyn properties. The New Zealand Branch sold for $52 million. I don't know the sales figures for the other Branches off the top of my head. We can also factor in the funds being raised to bring home the missionaries (the one where the publishers donate 15 cents per month.) The total for that figure is between $15 - $18 million approximately.

    I'm speculating here but I feel that the Society is trying to handle a very large debt or is anticipating one. Personally, I don't think that it is the Warwick project. Just going by what I see on the building plans, I think that it should be possible to build that for $10 million to $15 million.

    Two scenarios come to my mind: One is the Candace Conti trial. If the court rules in her favour, then her case will set a precedent and that will open up the "floodgates" of the child abuse lawsuits.

    The other scenario I wonder about is: has the Society lost money on an investment in the stock market and hedge funds?

    It has been an interesting exercise to observe how their business model operates.


    Wallflower
     
  15. Hi Wallflower:

    There is something devious happening here. To me, this appears to be clearly a request for MORE MONEY. The society has a long track record of donations that it receives and they probably (without pledge notes) can estimate their "take" to within a couple hundred thousand dollars, so this is just a veiled way of asking for an increase in donations without actually "asking" for an increase in donations. Wouldn't it be refreshing if the Socierty would one time just be honest with the publishers as to the real reason for their request without having to make up "justifiable" reasons that defy logic and show a gross disrespect for the rank and file. This is what happens when you are run by a "legal department" rather than a theocratic department.

    frank
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Fat chance I'm turning in one of those cards :)

    I won't make a big stink, just refuse on grounds of conscience.

    (but I'll see what they say next week, I haven't heard this in my congregation yet)
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    About 15 years ago, I was in certain congregation and an elder asked from the platform for a resolution in order to buy a bigger table for the "fish tank". That's how we usually and colloquially name the back room in the KHs in France. Nearly all the b/s put their hands up and the resolution was accepted as if it were a slam-dunk but there was one elder who was against the resolution and who expressed it openly by voting against the resolution. He was the only one against it. I said wow to myself ! I knew him and his family quite well and I learned later that the table had already been bought. He wasn't against the table in itself but against the fact that a resolution had been petitioned whereas the table had already been bought....

    The Bible says : "Just let YOUR word Yes mean Yes, YOUR No, No; for what is in excess of these is from the wicked one." - Mat. 5:37

    Regarding the amount I'm gonna give them, I'd mind if anything said "in excess" would end up coming from the wicked one. I'll give them what I'll give them when I can give it. If they want a promise, I'll give them say 1 € per month, for sure ! I certainly won't make a vow before Jehovah that I would knowingly be sure not to keep...
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    What a beautiful person.

    Reminds me of Daniel's personality.
     
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    Utuna

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    Hi my dear sister Panda !!!!

    Thank you very much for sharing this article and this website. I don't have right now the time to read all the articles contained therein but I liked what I read so far.
    Yet, I was soooo disappointed when I caught on what was the real teaching of the AnointedJW that I won't give my opinion about this one before reading some more of it.

    This new donation arrangement reminds me of :

    "Woe to those going down to Egypt for assistance, those who rely on mere horses, and who put their trust in war chariots, because they are numerous, and in steeds, because they are very mighty, but who have not looked to the Holy One of Israel and have not searched for Jehovah himself." - Is. 31:1

    and all of verses in connection with it :

    (Deuteronomy 17:16) Only he should not increase horses for himself, nor make the people go back to Egypt in order to increase horses; whereas Jehovah has said to YOU, ‘YOU must never go back again by this way.’
    (Psalm 33:17) The horse is a deception for salvation, And by the abundance of its vital energy it does not afford escape.
    (Proverbs 21:31) The horse is something prepared for the day of battle, but salvation belongs to Jehovah.

    "The past is never dead. It's not even past." - W. Faulkner

    Or in other words => Nothing new under the sun...

    I'm glad that there are people who have the patience to peer into the GB's teachings and compare everything with everything so their readers can have a synthetic view of the changes because I would be unable to do that. It's already so boring to read the current WT articles... I can't imagine myself reading again the old ones... my my my...
     

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