Peace and Security/Christs Return/Dead in Christ Resurrected/Raised

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by Joshuastone7, Nov 18, 2015.

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I didn't clarify what I meant Sis....

    I believe the situation we find ourselves in our day is not unlike what the disciples dealt with in their day with the temple. I believe the WTS as an organization has lost Jehovah's favor just like the temple leaders in the first century.

    In fact I believe that the organization represents the courtyard of Jehovah's prophetical arrangement because those within have forgiveness of sin through the gate of the courtyard in Christ Jesus and his sacrifice within, for as a group these know the true nature of Jesus coming in the flesh, and it will be this that is circled for the 42 months when the WTS comes down.

    Rev 11:2 "But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months."

    Then 1290 days later (after the WTS was destroyed) the world will turn on a rebuilt spiritual Jerusalem containing the temple (Christs brothers).

    As the constant feature the WTS has done the work of spreading the word of the kingdom to the world, and it is that organizational structure that will come down for errors within that will begin the end of days.
     
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    Barry

    Barry New Member

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    This is exactly what I'm thinking as well regarding the organization.
     
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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    That's really sad to read. I read it like this

    "Now I want to have the last word on this people"

    ...and "I just want to end this thread with my own words so I can read them over and over and convince myself of what I already believe"
     
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    Thinking

    Thinking Guest

    That because you don't know me Appocalypse....

    I said that because you and the others are all about SAVING brothers and sisters from the org....I have no intention of getting into a debate with any of you about this issue....I've said my peice..and I stand by what I have said...
    Having said that..I know that you are all kind men who are loving and caring..also genuine.
    Yet in your misguided beliefs you are unknowingly dangerous to brothers and sisters.
    I mean no disrespect to you..but it is a endless discussion that goes a
    Round and round the mulberry bush...no point in it.
    I also realise that others here don't have my view ....and I respect their views.
    I also respect your desion to leave..but I do not respect your actions on helping others out.

    Thinking
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    Agreed.
     
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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    I would like to personally thank all those who worked hard to 'get me out' mentally, spiritually and emotionally. I want to thank them for not abandoning me in spiritual prison when they made their escape. I want to express my sincerest appreciation to them for not forgetting me, not turning their back and running, and leaving me behind in mental darkness apart from the Christ. Thank you for rescuing me.

    And I have accepted words of appreciation from those many whom I have helped out of the totalitarian spiritual regime of Watchtower. I know, when I hear their words, that they mean it, because I mean it when I say it.

    And most of all, I want to thank my Lord Jesus Christ, for using the Holy Spirit to motivate them who have escaped modern JeWdisim and Babylon to come back for me, their brother.

    Yes, I am able to say I "got out of her my people".
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Greetings apocalypse, peace be to you...

    Can you clarify how you identify Babylon the Great? Scriptural reference please and thank you...
     
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    Frank Conger

    Frank Conger Guest

    Hi Apocalypse: What is your understanding of what or who the Holy Spirit is? I am serious and would like your scriptural understanding of that topic. Thanks!

    Frank
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Same phrasing as a certain prayer I read in another thread lately. So lovely quaint !

    Over the years, we got acquainted with slews of people who suffered as you did, as we did, and we've become impervious to the siren songs of victimization. We won't follow you down this rabbit hole..... This forum isn't a vomitive bag and I think that you're clever and psychologically steady enough to put aside your "legitimate" feelings of frustration and pain for a while so you can understand others' feelings in order for us all to have upbuilding and constructive discussions without having to put up with the boring tit for tat we're all too much used to.... aren't you ?
     
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    Daz

    Daz Member

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    I understand where Apocalypse is coming from but it isn't our place to decide where people should be, all we need to do is present the truth in loving way but stand firm & let them decide for themselves, planting the seed can be enough.
    Some remain in the org because they are fear changing their way of life, some feel it's safer to be in it rather than out & just block out the teachings they know are in error.
    I was hurt, angry & disheartedned with how I was treated but also I felt I could not stay there whilst they were teaching aspects that were not in line with Christ, I just felt I was going against the grain & had to make a stand but that is my own personal decsion & feelings on it. But either way it's something you learn to deal with or should learn to deal with & eventually get over it. in my case it made me alot stronger & more zealous to search out for truths of which brought me so much closer to my Father in heaven & His son Christ Jesus. I have learned to forgive & I know that God & Christ would want it that way, I am nobody's judge & we would all do well to remember that as we are not the ones who have that authority.
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    Agreed.
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Dear Daz,

    Apocalypse said :
    I understand too where Apocalypse is coming from but his answer to Sis Thinking makes me wonder where IT is coming from...

    Whenever you read Thinking's posts, it doesn't take forever to understand that she's not the kind of person to say and even think what's quoted above.

    I don't react to Apocalypse's words because I downplay in one way or the other the amount of pain and sufferings that he may have had to cope with over the years because of the GB's spiritual and psychological yoke over his family and him. Sis Thinking asked politely not for certain members to intervene because she didn't want to start and get involved in an endless hail of comments against the WT, bla bla bla, as her reply was destined to Josh only. For me also it ends up being tiresome to say something positive about the organization because we know that it'll trigger a boring salvo of criticisms. She never meant censorship or disrespect, but peace only....

    So, yes ! To resort to accusations of indirect censorship, giving thereby bad motives to others, is quite a conclusion that makes me cringe....

    Source

    That reminds me of all those gullible people online who buy into the sob stories (def: A tale of personal hardship or misfortune intended to arouse pity.) posted by mythomaniacs who want to use the sacrosanct status of victim of the WT for whatever reasons they might have. Some people are expert in the art of fudging their own issues by accusing others of their own errors (like those who treat the JWs with contempt and who thereafter complain because the latter ones aren't kind with them... lol). A saying goes which is often true : "That's the first hen that sings that laid the egg". That's not always the one who shouts out the louder who suffered the most ! That's also not the one who suffered the most who shouts out the louder !

    The WT does have skeletons in the closet but some virulent anti-JWs do have some too... Nothing is ever black/white, the WT always being among the villains, being the ugly dragon and the singing hens being the innocent princess held captive in the dungeon and waiting for the white knight in shining armor to rescue them... What a joke !

    [​IMG]

    Does the status of victim of the WT act like a washing powder that washes whiter than white ? Some naive people seem to think that it does...
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Source

    There is nothing worse than people who think to be victims, on imaginary or real grounds, and who are thereafter determined to claim their rights back no matter the cost, especially for others.

    "A man who pricks an eye will make tears fall, and one who pricks the heart makes it show feeling." - Ecclesiasticus 22:19

    Hardships don't have the same effect on people... Feelings, therefore our heart, are truly treacherous and equivocal...

    "At this Jehovah said to Cain: "Why are you hot with anger and why has your countenance fallen? If you turn to doing good, will there not be an exaltation? But if you do not turn to doing good, there is sin crouching at the entrance, and for you is its craving; and will you, for your part, get the mastery over it?"" - Gen 4:6-7
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    That's how it looked to me. Sister Thinking didn't want another argument on the board.
     
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    Daz

    Daz Member

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    Hi Utuna, hope u are well, I wasn't supporting anyone's view just stating I knew where he was coming from with regards to his pain & anquish but I also stated that you have move on from that & forgive, not to stand in judgement. If you do not turn it in to something positive then the anger & hurt will consume you.
     
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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    I want to demonstrate that you are using circular reasoning. In the quote, you say "people who think to be victims", relegating these "people" to false victims, only 'thinking' they are victims, but not truly "victims".

    You then go on to say "on imaginary or real grounds".

    Dear, if the victims only "think" they are victims, then their "grounds" are false. But if, as you suggest, the grounds can be "real", then they are truly victims.

    Not only do you use circular reasoning, but you are specious. You try to undermine true "victims" with your false reasoning. It contradicts itself as much as Watchtower's teachings.
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    Apocalypse

    Please note that this forum is not to be used as a "punching bag." I won't allow this habit of taking a "pot shot" at another member, when we don't agree with what they say.

    Most of the members have known each other here for many years. Through their posts, we get a sense of how they think and the nature of their personalities.

    I would suggest that you take the time to get to know the members a little better and learn something of their history.

    I sense unresolved anger issues - I see unresolved anger in my office every day. I understand that people are angry at the WT and I am sure that in the future, more individuals will come to the forum in that state of mind (because they have been hurt by the WT.)

    People in that situation can choose to talk to someone on the forum here for help. Or they can talk to a counselor.

    I know that anger has to be vented somehow because it's not healthy to keep it bottled up.

    I won't tolerate anger being taken out on other forum members.

    There is a protocol that I follow if I see evidence that a member is not listening to warnings or not accepting the help extended to them by other forum members. It has happened once before on the forum.
     
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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    If I made an error, then please, by all means, demonstrate that to me.

    What I have noticed on these forums is that Admins say whatever they choose and anyone that says different is accused of "punching bag".

    I took no "pot shot" as you say. A member here, however, did attempt to cast a dark shadow on victims, and I spoke up for victims, demonstrating the contradiction clearly.

    If I did not speak the truth, then show me where I err.
    If I did speak the truth, then you are on the wrong side of truth.

    May I remind you that Jesus Christ Himself exposed false reasoning at every turn and people's feelings were not His focus. He told His own disciples clearly that they must eat his flesh etc and they were stumbled.

    Do you know Jesus.
     
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    Frank Conger

    Frank Conger Guest

    Yes, I do!

    Frank
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    It is very easy to make assumptions based on one or two statements or posts. I believe that Utuna has compassion and understanding for the victims of the WT - he has been around for a while and has seen quite a bit within the organisation. I can say that because I know something of his background.


    It is one matter to say that a poster used circular reasoning. That phrase refers to a person's understanding or reasoning.

    If you call a person "specious" this now becomes a personal remark.

    I have no problem with people disagreeing on the board - that is going to happen because of different viewpoints and understanding of scripture.

    I object to personal remarks and character assassination.

    If a member posts out of anger and targets another member, then that to me, falls in the "punching bag" category.

    I know that sometimes people have a bad day. However, if I notice that there is a habit or trend in behaviour, then I will weigh and say so.
     

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