Peace and Security/Christs Return/Dead in Christ Resurrected/Raised

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by Joshuastone7, Nov 18, 2015.

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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    I am not intending to make personal remarks. I am intending to convey a thought accurately and I make liberal use of the correct words in the English language when I do.

    spe·cious
    1. superficially plausible, but actually wrong.
      "a specious argument"
      • misleading in appearance, especially misleadingly attractive.
        "the music trade gives Golden Oldies a specious appearance of novelty"
        synonyms: misleading, deceptive, false, fallacious, unsound, spurious, casuistic,sophistic
        "specious reasoning

    Please do not attribute to me 'name calling'. You quoted me... please refer to the entire quote, not to a part of it. I said "Not only do you use circular reasoning, but you are specious." The 'specious' refers to the reasoning.

    If a person is loud when they talk, then they are LOUD. It's not an opinion. It can be measured on a sound level meter and compared to established norms for dB level. It is NOT name calling to tell them they are LOUD.

    If a person is "specious" in their reasoning, then that too can be measured and established. It's not like saying they 'are an idiot'... that WOULD be name calling. But to point out a specious argument, that is NOT name calling.

    It would be equally specious to tell someone who is pointing out a specious argument that that person is "name calling".

    "Specious" is not slanderous. It is exact.

    On the last, I will say that a person cannot be specious. It is an adjective that modifies another word, in this case "reasoning". As in "specious reasoning". So, when a person is referred to as being "specious", it means that their line of reasoning is false, albeit with a semblance of plausibility.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Your argument does not hold water... While you can measure established noise levels, reasoning is measured against your own ego, and becomes your opinion, not fact....
     
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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    Thank you. Now we have here a good example of "name calling". A person can be 'egotistical' and telling somebody the above is indeed "name calling".

    I'll bet the moderators will stand up and say something.

    I did establish "specious reasoning" in my post above, directly quoting the person and dismantling the false reasoning. ie. one cannot say people have no basis, and some basis for their claim as a victim.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Here you go;

    Ego - noun / "the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity."

    Maybe I need to be more specific for you, and not so general, it helps understand what I'm saying sometimes.

    The point of my comment was that you cannot prove someone else wrong just because you feel your right, and in fact I'm not really sure how that is a difficult concept to understand.

    You compared measuring decibels of sound to measuring another mans reasoning to yours. One is a fact, the other an opinion. Just because you think your reasoning is fact does not make it so, and with such comments from you there is no doubt that you will feel anger from my post here, instead of recognizing the reasoning within it.
     
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Academia is not as impresive as the teachings of the anointing spirit.
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Yes, but it won't necessarily make up for reading impairments....
     
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Good point Utuna.

    Reading the truthes of the bible is necessary for us to understand truth.

    Reading with understanding is encouraged in the bible.

    So do we need to have command of a large vocabulary of words not mentioned in the bible?

    I am not condeming higher learning and the use of a larger vocabulary but am just thinking we should be careful how we use them.

    Have a good day.

    Joe
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    Interesting grammar lesson.

    I think the focus should be on choosing our words carefully (think about how the words can be understood or misunderstood,) and speaking with the other brothers/sisters in a courteous, civil manner.
     
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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    This is a straw man argument. You said "measuring another mans reasoning to yours. "

    Please quote me before attributing something to me.You will find nothing to support this.

    I compared the persons argument to ITSELF. When there is a false argument, there is a hidden contradiction. I merely uncovered it.

    You, on the other hand, presented a completely false line of reasoning beginning with an untruth. I did NOT compare his/her reasoning to my own.

    I expect better from you.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I didn't misquote you, or misunderstand you, it's all in post #61, I'll copy and paste here;

    "So, when a person is referred to as being "specious", it means that their line of reasoning is false, albeit with a semblance of plausibility."

    ""Specious" is not slanderous. It is exact."

    "The 'specious' refers to the reasoning."

    "If a person is loud when they talk, then they are LOUD. It's not an opinion. It can be measured on a sound level meter and compared to established norms for dB level."

    You were saying someone else was "wrong" because their speech was "specious". Now you stated that there reasoning was "wrong" by your counterargument that proved it wrong in the same manner that sound could be measured, by scientific fact.

    I understood quite well, you said you proved his argument "specious" by your reasoning.

    I didn't miss anything....
     
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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    Ah...no. You missed it again.

    I was quite clear. I said their argument contradicted itself. That's why it's specious.
    I never said it contradicted me. You are twisting.
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    He didn’t miss it at all.

    Make sure you know what you talk about and master your own mother tongue before being that cocky.... You've been offensive and disrespectful right from the start towards all, without even giving them the benefit of the doubt. The sins of the WT are yours now.....
     
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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    I don't expect this from a mod.

    No more hesaid shesaid. I'll let what I've written stand.
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    Ok,

    I have sensed ill will from moderators here, personally. This is not even attempted to be presented tactfully or with love.

    This forum is a place where hurt JW's might come to find love and encouragement , but when they get here...well what have we here?

    "We sing and dance and play the flute...but you aren't listening."

    If we, those who wish to specifically point out from scriptures how we were hurt by the demands of WT all our lives...

    And we show ...again...from Jesus Christ's own words....how WT is teaching falsehoods....

    And YOU YOURSELVES ...say the same thing!

    You even go further and say, "Jehovah is going to burn WT down...TO THE GROUND!"

    Then..you turn on us, and tear our motives apart, and poop on our hurt and personal experiences...calling us , "whiners...babies crying some old song we've heard over and over..."

    Then, more or less, grab our ears, and say..."You like what we say ..or get out!"

    Where is the love in this? (Jesus ' command.."Love one another")

    Now I will say it again, allow me this one more time if you have any love for truth , and want some here to exit:

    You can talk freely (comment removed by admin.)
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    Here are my opening comments at this site, and I mean every word.


    Welcome to Christian brotherhood
    Postby John S » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:50 am

    Dear WT reader,

    My name is John S. I was a JW for over 35 years. I knew it when times were spiritually blessed, and I was in it when the 'cake' fell flat. Through the years looking back after my written resignation, (2007-8), I am able to see with each year that passes, why this organization has fallen from God's grace, became ineffective as to making strong new disciples of Christ, and receiving God's blessings upon them and their friends and families. Many of the posts you will read hereafter will hopefully show you why. Also you will begin to see what several have found to be true, that WT could not see, or were denying and hiding really; truths about God, and getting his spirit to begin a real life of unity with Jehovah as his Son taught.

    Hopefully you will be encouraged enough to share your views, and offer your spirited comments as you have been blessed with holy spirit also. Thanks for coming, may you be blessed in your efforts to search for the God of truth through his Son's directions.

    John S
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm not really sure why we are having a hard time understanding the house rules here.

    The majority of posters here believe the Kingdom Hall is the very courtyard of God. That's God with a capital "G", Jehovah, almighty...

    Even though Jesus overturned the money changer tables, he still considered the house his father's. Even though the Jews worshipped cows, Jehovah still called them his people.

    If you understood what it is i am saying, you would take the next step in understanding prophecy, and our house rules.
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    I don't get why we are having a hard time understanding the house rules here either.

    I think the house rules have been spelt out clearly, on repeated occasions.

    Forum members are to treat each other in a respectful manner. This is a two way process. Those who do not attend the Hall are to speak respectfully to those who still attend.

    Those who attend the Hall are to speak respectfully to those who do not attend.

    This is a two way process. That sentence means that it is not a one-sided process.

    The Bible is not to be used as a weapon for berating other members of the forum. It is God's Word and will be respected as such, on this forum. It will be regarded as a book of truth, on this forum.

    The Scriptures contained within the Bible will be used to assist others and to build their faith and to strengthen their faith.

    Also, it should be possible to discuss the corruption within the Watchtower Society in a calm, factual manner. (Throughout the thread about "Interesting Developments In Australia," not once has it ever been necessary for me to blow a "head gasket" in order to get a point across. I don't need to - the facts speak for themselves. And I'm a "loose cannon" by nature.)

    Is there anything in this post that is not clear?
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Where is the love ?

    Are you taking us again for fools ? You must be kidding, right ?

    Do you want me to quote all the most loving comments that apocalypse has written since we welcomed him here with open arms ? You see, as an admin, I have a hard time standing the fact that someone who is an elder, therefore supposed to be a shepherd with sheep under his aegis, comes here and belittles the ones under ours. Contrary to him, my comments are never wanton and when that which keeps me busy and away from the db is done, I'll explain and speak my mind and you will then see if I'm so spurious....

    Don't worry, you'll get your money's worth too....
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    Well OK!

    Apocalypse is in YOUR camp. He is one of your own; attending meetings, yet seeing the rank hypocrisy of the whole 'dog and pony show'. I didn't tell him the truth about Christ, and the wierd thing WT has become;;;he lives it every time he goes to the Hall.

    You are just seeing the beginning of another success ; God has captured another sheep for his Kingdom....another 'Son of God'. He finds the ways of his religion despicable now, tyrannical, devious, sly, and slippery,ssssss.

    So, your site is a success here, is it not?

    He is acting just right, as one who is pulling off all the chains, and starting to feel the blood flow through the spirit fueling it.

    Now, questions and questioning begins in earnest. You have read his well-thought out comments; he didn't arrive at these conclusions recently, but is about to now do something about it.

    I do hope you bring your thoughts to the table, and let's see your hand.

    Ever play poker?

    "Ante up, please". Let us play a game of what is True Gospel, and what is a sleight of hand . The scriptural truth is where holy spirit , as true refreshment comes from. The spirit re-birth, which we share at Memorial for those partaking with clear minds, is strong and draws one closer to God and his Son, than any "Great Crowd...Other Sheep", doctrine that alienates from Them.

    "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their (the anointed preachers of Christ) message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."John 17:20

    The spirit born brothers of Christ come bringing Christ's message, not a fabricated alternative that sets the believer further away...with a mediator of men between them and God.

    "There is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

    Direct to Christ, and then to God; no one in between.
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    Hey Utuna,

    I don't want to be mean, haughty, or nasty about the Kingdom Message. It is from our Father and our Lord. But really...what all you moderators are doing here...beating around the bushes waiting for 'God's Organization' to fall someday...then you will be there to 'catch them'...and restore their faith. What.

    You set up this site, hoping to make a difference, and catch men and women who need help when they fall from the leaky sieve that WT has become. Well...

    "Here they come...!"

    Are you ready? WT is already coming down, so get ready to go to work. Give the gospel to these coming here. Now is the time. It is not in the distant future.

    The time has arrived. Give the listeners true food. Blood and flesh from Christ himself, not 'intelligent academia'.

    Come on. Be one of Christ's brothers and sisters, if you will. Not a JW bystander.(remember that phrase? I learned it from WT 20 years ago.) They are calling to you.(Rev. 22:17)

    Best to go on out today and get some bread and wine, and have a memorial to Christ and Father after the meeting, partake and see. You are going to have a wonderful time with your Father and your Lord. You'll see.

    If you've been thinking about doing this,.... then now is as good a time as you'll ever get.
     

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