PEACE AND SECURITY

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by apocalypse, Feb 28, 2016.

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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    Watchtower teaches that soon there will be a huge development that will be a sign for Jehovah's Witnesses! Regarding 1Thess. 5:3 the Watchtower magazine, principle journal of Jehovah's Witnesses, writes...

    "However, just before that day of Jehovah begins, world leaders will be saying “Peace and security!” This may refer to one event or to a series of events."
    • https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20120915/world-end/#?insight[search_id]=2038590d-e4a0-4101-89db-27102bef34ba&insight[search_result_index]=19

      How will Jehovah's Witnesses know that it has happened? How will they know for sure that whatever events are reportedly taking place on planet Earth are the fulfillment of this "prophecy"?

      Of course, "it will come out in the Watchtower" ...as so many have repeated for so very long.

      Yes, JW's await the GB to write something to them via the Watchtower magazine. They wait. And wait.

      Meanwhile, what did Paul actually write? Was it a prophecy of some future singular event, marking the beginning of some other event? The "end"...?

      Or was it something else entirely?

      In writing to the Thessalonians, as recorded in the context, Paul tells, at 1Thess 4:13-18, about the Lord's Day. The Thessalonians obviously wanted to know more about it, else why was he telling...

      The Thessalonians must obviously have had the same superstitions that plagued most back then, superstitions that Jesus himself needed to dispel, as found at Matthew 24:4-7 where he began "Do NOT be misled"

      What did Paul tell the Thessalonians? That they could expect a letter? A magazine... containing writings perhaps?

      No! Paul said 1 Thessalonians 5:1

      5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.

    That's right. It's not write.

    And why was there nothing to be written about the Lord's day? The next verse.

    2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.​

    If it's coming as a thief in the night, then what could you possibly write! (rhetorical)

    So, what did Paul actually say?

    3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.​

    Yes, stop looking for signs! "Whenever" as in multiple and always, ...NOT 'when' as in a singular event...

    Whenever they say peace ...THERE'S WAR and there's no way out for them any more than a woman about to give birth can avoid what is taking place in her own body.

    So how can there be any indicators or signs in the political process when whatever they say... the OPPOSITE HAPPENS.

    So, Jehovah's Witnesses need to STOP waiting for something to be "written to them" via the Watchtower.

    The Lord's day "is coming exactly as a thief in the night".

    NOTHING CAN BE WRITTEN. NOTHING WILL BE WRITTEN.

    Paul went on.

    4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves, 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness.​

    Paul DID NOT say that Christians would, or would not, be taken over by thieves. He said they would not be taken over by "the day" in the same manner or way as the day would overtake thieves.

    The "day" will be a surprise to all, God loving Christians and thieves alike. But when it arrives, the thieves will feel different about it than would Christians.

    Illustration.

    If your employer shows up to inspect, he find some working, some sleeping. Those caught working are surprised, but happy. Those caught sleeping less happy.


    So Paul admonishes Christians in verses 6-8 to keep awake. The Lord's day will come as a surprise to all, but "the day should [not] overtake you as it would (or in the same way) thieves.

    This said, Jehovah's Witnesses will continue holding out hope that something 'will be written to them' about the "times and seasons", and they will continue on, sure that they have 'the edge' on everybody else.

    Paul be damned.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Nice commentary brother... No doubt this attitude will prevail up until the moment the courtyard is encircled, and the constant feature removed. (Rev 11:2, Dan 12:11)

    God's people will be refined by the fire of the first trumpet, from the second beast of Rev 13. (Zech 13:9) This no doubt will be that wake up call to JW's that they had been waiting for something never to come, and the "denunciations" toward the holy covenant will no doubt begin the real end starting with their captivity to Babylon. (Dan 11:30)

    Just my two cents...
     
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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    I don't think JWs are "Gods people". (ahem)

    As close as JWs come to anything in prophecy is Matthew 24:48-51 when the GB are assigned their place "with the hypocrites" that they have pointed their finger at for so long.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Name another group of people who understand the true nature of God.

    Since they understand the nature of God, that alone makes them his people. That has been the only factor throughout history that defined God's people.
     
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    Baruq

    Baruq Member

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    Perimeno has written an article on the same subject. (http://www.perimeno.ca/Letters_1115_peace_and_security.htm) Some of the points join what you say. It is true that we do not need to wait for a clear sign, contrary to we have always been taught. This will be something more devious, certainly.
     
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    Baruq

    Baruq Member

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    The publications speak of the cry of “Peace and security!”. But the verse says: Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!”. It is not spoken of cry. Where have they gone looked for it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2016
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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    Baruq: Thanks for your comment and the link.
    I went over there and read some of his work. I see some good stuff, but I also see strong overtones of Watchtower teaching that contradicts. I'm not hurling mud at his work by any means. I just have issues with some of what he has there.
     
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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    Jesus.

    I don't need "a people". "A people" can't offer me salvation. "A people" didn't die at Golgotha for my sin, or yours.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I didn't ask who you need for salvation, I just asked a group of people God would call, "My people", as he does many times in prophecy.
     
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    apocalypse Guest

    If you really believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are the "my people"... then you ought to start acting like it, don't you think?
    Starting with going to the elders of the "my people" and confessing your involvement here. And stopping your doubting of the "governing body" of the "my people".
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    You seem to have made a mistake, but not unlike many ex-JW's I've run across, they usually run off at the mouth without knowing what they are talking about too...

    But with that said, I never said the Watchtower Society was the means by which Jehovah would save mankind. In fact I believe the Watchtower Society will be gone years before Jesus returns. So you are quite mistaken. Just a quick suggestion, it helps to ask what the other person actually believes before going off on something that has nothing to do with anything.

    My statement means what it means. JW's as people understand the true nature of God, that makes them his people. No one who believes in the trinity are Gods people. Therefore anyone who believes Jesus was created and Jehovah never had a beginning makes them his people, and as a group JW's have the majority as a group. Did the Israelite's ever have any more then this? Did they ever understand prophecy and worship correctly? Or did they sin and fall short constantly? You see, if you know your Bible, then you will see that the only thing that made them Gods people were that they understood his nature. Did they have to be Jews? No, they could have been anywhere. Do they have to be JW's to be Gods people? No, they can be anywhere....

    lol.... Slow down a little bit, you might learn something...

    One day there will no longer be a Watchtower, and everyone on the planet will get an equal opportunity to worship Jehovah in truth years before Christ comes.
     
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    apocalypse Guest

    Wow.
    Well, one of us has some attitude coming out.
    Frankly, I am not an x-JW. I am on the body in my congregation. I take service meeting parts and give talks. When you assume....(fill please)
    I think I know what I am talking about and the board surely know it. You are trying to convince people that JWs are the true religion and then you bash them. I can read. I imagine I'm not alone.

    You seem to have your very own religion of one.
    And arrogant too.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    So you mock me saying I need to go to the elders and follow the GB, yet you are an elder, and you also claim the JW's aren't God's people?

    That seems very arrogant to me...
     
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    Thinking

    Thinking Guest

    So apocalypse am I right in assuming that you are not a witness or Ex Jw....but belong to another faith altogether..and am active as in giving talks etc.....
    Also Perimeno admits he doesn't have everything right and he listens to what others have to say and on occasions has had to change his thoughts because he had the wrong view on a matter and another brother corrected him.
    He is a very humble brother.......nor do I think Josh is arrogant but you have given the impression you were a witness...or ex JW........you might not have meant to do that but it has come across that way...so it's been a little bit confusing ..for me anyway as I follow this conversation...

    Sis thinking
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Thank you Sis... I hope to learn from brothers and sisters every day. This is the very nature of this forum. I may shake things up sometimes by my straightforwardness, it's because I'm not really a fan of beating around the bush.

    I have regretted those times it took me so long to listen to others, and had to come full circle years later to join two ideas into one.

    Sometimes we speak about things before understanding, and that brings about misunderstanding. I use to have soft skin, but as I've gotten older I have learned to have a thick skin, and my feelings are not hurt so easily. Yet I don't mind shaking up the natives here and there now and then...lol Some of the best discussions come from angst...
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    That's the problem Thinking, apocalypse claims to be an elder with the Watchtower Society, but yet does not believe JWs are God's people, nor does he believe they have anything to do with prophecy other then the GB being hypocrites, but yet he claims to be an elder himself.

    Now I am not an elder, yet I do believe JWs are God's people. As an elder he asked why I didn't go to the elders and follow the GB if I thought they were God's people, yet he's an elder and doesn't believe those he directs are God's people.

    That is what I call, WOW...!
     
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    Thinking Guest

    Things just are not adding up???
    Appocalypse..we are not bashing the witness's...the core believers on this forum believe Jehovah's Witness are his people and he is using them to preach the Good News Of The Kingdom.
    This is a work he has commissioned his people to do..and it must be done before he can bring about his appointed time.
    We all engage in it in one way or another.
    I and most others here are proud to be counted as one of his witnesses and love our brothers and sisters dearly.
    I am deeply deeply grateful to be one of his witnesses

    Yet we acknowledge some things have not been handled with Jehovahs backing...and we must all stand before him and hold an accounting of our service to him.
    Those in Authority the GB and Elders etc have a heavier accounting than others.
    Most of us here have been confused and hurt ..perplexed ..over some extremely serious actions done by his People...because we are one of them...it reflects on us personally..yet we do not agree with some of these things.
    We gather here to up build each other..to ENCOURGE each other to hang in there and not give up.
    We are like those spoken of in Malachi.....where those that know their God and see these things happening....talk amongst themselves..( sorry I am out at the moment and do not have my bible with me so can not give you the specific verse)
    In Psalms it says the Prudent ones keeps quiet because the times are evil.

    Jehovah will discipline those that need it..and to the degree he chooses....it is really no concern of ours here.
    Yet when he does..ALL his people will be disciplined. Even those that have not agreed with certain policies, doctrines ..UN..etc.

    Just like Joshua and Kaleb who argued to go forth into Cannan...and trust in Jehovah...even those faithful men had to endure forty years of discipline of Jehovahs people even tho being innocent of that sin.

    No witness on here is bashing Jehovah's Witnesses faith...otherwise we would be bashing ourselves...and be in big trouble with Jehovah because he is allowing all this to take place.

    we Do stand up and Say ....(for example )..that the association with the UN is wrong...would you not have stood up to Arron in the wilderness when he made the Golden calf and say so.

    ...personally I do not see why Gods people have gone to Satans house to do Jehovahs work.....I do not know if it was an act of idolatry or prostitution or both...but I know it was a very great betrayal to Jehovah.........and again on a personal level this forum helps me to endure such things and wait for Jehovah and his appointed time.

    We here are a little portion of that group spoken of in Malachi.

    Thinking
     
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    wallflower

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    Yes, I had to read the thread twice to make sure that I had read the comments accurately.

    Am I missing some kind of detail here?
     
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    apocalypse

    apocalypse Guest

    Inquiring minds want to know.
    I am not with some other church. If I were, firstly, I would not be bothering to post on this site. I mentioned that I do "service meeting parts"... Is there another religion that has a "service meeting"..? Somebody point it out please. If you are going to comment on what I post, please read what I post.

    I, no less than any one of you who post here, want to give too much personal information on this or any other site. We would all be disfellowshipped. None of you would be exempt and to say otherwise is just plain disrespectful.

    I am well known in the circuit, I and my family have been cornerstones for the better part of a century.

    How many of you have written your questions in to Bethel and received a response, and subsequently been hauled into a meeting over it?

    Who among you has used a topic here in a service meeting part to stimulate an audience to thought, and subsequently been hauled....

    Who was it among you who became active and procured proof from the United Nations of the WTBTS affiliation with them an worked to advertise the proof?

    Which one of you was responsible fer getting that proof to Ray F. to have it published along with all of his hard work?

    Joshua. You need to look up the meaning of "arrogance." Was Paul arrogant when he called Peter a hypocrite? I was calling you one.

    I have quietly gone along in the Watchtower org for the sake of family and I have done so for 25 years. I have helped countless persons see the truth and break free from the mental slavery of Watchtower.

    You people seem to be captives of a concept. You cannot have it both ways.

    If you are a Jew, then hold to the law. If you follow Jesus, then the law is fulfilled. That was the choice in the first century. It's that simple today.

    I am on my way out of WT. My family has their minds free. I am working on helping some friends.

    Meanwhile, WT is almost done.
     
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    belongingtojah

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    Hi Apocalypse,

    Thankyou for your frank and informative response to your circumstances.

    I really was a nobody in the organization for most of my life. So my story is in a way irrelevant.

    But you my brother were and or are a person of import in the watchtower organization and it is apparent to me that holy spirit has led you too the conclusions you have drawn and the conclusions are the same for me.

    Where I live in Pine Grove, California I occasionally see ones that used to call me brother and experience a painful feeling of hate from most of them and for what? I just simply wanted and do put my trust only in Jehovah and Jesus and their living words of truth.

    Welcome to the wilderness where the spirit that comes from Jehovah and Jesus help us feel a peace and freedom that cannot be found in any group that look to men for a relationship with our Father.

    Have a blessed day.

    Joe
     

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