Putin's ships from "Kittim" prophecy

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Jan, Oct 3, 2015.

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    Jan Active Member

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    USA did really fail in the last war in Irak. USA lost everything there. ISIS took over a big part of Irak and the internationally legal government of Irak is friendly to Iran and Syria and Russia. They have offered Russians to use their territory in fighting ISIS. And Russians are already in some measure there in Irak.

    So for USA the war in Irak was a disaster. It is here the prophecy fits in.

    Daniel 11:29 “At the time appointed he will go back, and he will actually come against the south; but it will not prove to be at the last the same as at the first.

    And it seems that Daniel 11:30 is right now fulfilling: "And there will certainly come against him the ships of Kit′tim, and he will have to become dejected."

    We have just lately seen that military ships from Russia and China have arrived to help Assad. And the American response is negative. They are dejected.
    So in this case the King of the South is Assad and his allies. The King of the North is USA with its allies.
    And if I am correct then USA will not succeed this time according to this prophecy.
    Instead as the following scriptures says The King of the North (USA) will start to fight The Holy Covenant.
    That is bad news for Jehovah's witnesess.
     
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    Jan Active Member

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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    There have been quite a number of organizations and individuals who try to explain who the “King of the North†and “King of the South†are in the “time of the endâ€, or “end timesâ€, or “end daysâ€. This prophesy given to Daniel was fulfilled during the reign of Ptolemy. This was after the death of Alexander and the division of his empire. (Dan 11:4)

    Whether there is a future period to be fulfilled, and when, is still a mystery as far as Jehovah is concerned. It has not been revealed to anyone, yet. The WTB&TS have claimed that the “King of the North†was the USSR (now known as Russia) and the “King of the South†as the United States of America. They have guessed at the pushing and shoving, etc., etc., etc. They have been wrong and stubborn in changing there view.

    I wonder how they apply their understanding of: “After some years they will make an alliance, and the daughter of the king of the south will come to the king of the north in order to make an equitable arrangement. But she will not retain the power of her arm; and he will not stand, nor his arm; and she will be given up, she and those bringing her in, and the one who caused her birth, and the one making her strong in those times.†(Dan 11:6 NWT) Who is this daughter, and how does she fit in?
     
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    Baruq

    Baruq Member

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    The book about the prophecies fo Daniel chapter 13 give an explanation. According to the Watchtower, the daughter is Berenice, daughter of Ptolemy II. She married Antiochus II Theos. The book says that Ptolemy II was king of the south and Antiochus the king of the north.
    The Watchtower gives no explanation of this prophecy in the time of the end (or I didn't find it).
     
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    Jan Active Member

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    But I think I got it right. Because it fits what is right now happening. And the next verses talks about the king of the north, that he will put inplace the disgusting thing and profane the sanctuary and that he will persecute God's people and it describes the personality of that king, in verse 36. That he will be a boastful person. That fits the US presidential candidate Donald Trump. So all these indications make me draw the conclusion that the prophecy is about our time right now. I am just drawing logical conclusions like a criminal investigator. I don't expect that God will give a dream or wisper in the ear that this and that is the fulfilment of the prophecy. Instead Jehovah God gives wisdom to anyone asking to understand in what time we live right now.

    Interesting that the prophecy in Daniel 11 tells what will happen after the disgusting thing (v.31) is placed. It tells that after that the king of the north will give glory to the god of fortress (v.38).
    Just listen to Donald Trump how he glorifies the military and how much he promises to strenghten it if he becomes the president.
    Then verse 40 says the king of the south will engage in a pushing with the king of the north. And then the king of the north will storm with chariots, horsemen and ships. And v 44 says the king of the north will go forth in a great rage in order to annihilate and devote many to destruction.

    That fit well to Donald Trump's plans for the Middle east. He says the first thing he has to do is to restore America to its greatness and after that he will deal very harshly with ISIS and Iran and with the enemies of Israel.
    Verse 45 tells that he will come to Israel and put his palatial tents between the Mediterranian Sea and the Holy Mountain. This mountain is likely the mountain in Jerusalem where the temple stood before.

    I can not guarantee that I have drawn the right conclusions, but the time will tell. At least I have something to look after in the news.
     
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    http://www.rt.com/news/235851-russia-cyprus-military-eu/

    This is an article telling more about the military deal Cyprys and Russia have.

    And I am grateful that the book Daniels prophecy by the WT org gave me valuable knowledge about this prophecy and what Kittim means, that it is Cyprys. Even though that book tries to twist the meaning, that Kittim refers to Western powers during the world wars.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    First of all, I want you to know that I am not being critical of what you say. I have learned over the years from the Bible; “Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, And do not rely on your own understanding.†(Pr 3:5 NWT) The other is; “Do not put your trust in princes. Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.†(Ps 146:3 NWT) Sometimes we tend to reason with ourselves, which can be dangerous. We tend to base our thinking on false information. Satan's ways are devious.

    I’m sure there were those who felt that the build up of the German forces in the years leading to WWI, thought that they were the “King of the Northâ€. They also believed that we were nearing the end times. It likely happened in WWII also. That, especially with the holocaust taking place. They (WTB&TS) thought the tribulation would start in 1975 with all the issues with Russia taking place. It didn’t happen! Then, the Berlin Wall came down in 1989, the USSR came apart at the seams in 1991; on top of other world turmoil in Kosovo, Iran, Iraq, etc. Could all of this be the sign of the end?

    Don’t put your trust in newspaper articles. The media is known to lie and be lied to by governments. As Robert McNamara, a former Secretary of Defense, said; “Belief and seeing are often both wrong.†He also added; “Be prepared to re-examine your reasoning.†History seems to repeat itself because man refuses to remember the past.

    Why is the “Daniel†book no longer available? If it is so correct in understanding the prophesies, it should still be relevant and used for teaching. Where are the writers and those who were "inspired" with "new light" to interpret the prophesy given to Daniel. Made interpreted this to identify Russia as the
    “King of the North� I may be mistaken but, I think they were disfellowshiped from the organization. If I am wrong about that, please set me straight with the right information.
     
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    Abdiel7

    Abdiel7 New Member

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    The ships of kittim appear to be future and not in the Mediterranean. The kittim people of Cyprus were pushed out many centuries ago they migrated eastward eventually being assimilated into China after conquest and forming the Liao dynasty.

    Kittim after this transition may very well be China. In the future the ships of kittim will be a major factor in one of the king of the south's victories before the king of the north subjugates it.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    You may have something there. I find that the name of the kittim people of the Bible is similar in sound to the Khitan people of the Liao Dynasty. The only problem with that is, the Khitan people were horsemen.

    You mentioned that the Kittim peoples mentioned in the Bible, were pushed out of Cyprus centuries ago and migrated eastward eventually being assimilated into China after conquest, and forming the Liao dynasty. The Hebrew spelling and pronunciation of Kittim is similar to Khitan.

    The problem with this is the Kittim peoples were known for their expertise with ships on the Mediterranean. The Khitan were known as accomplished horsemen. Several places in the Bible, the hebrew word is translated as Cyprus. The Hebrew word is Kittiy, pronounced kit-tee' which is translated as Chittim or Kittim; a general term for all islanders of the Mediterranean Sea. They were the descendants of Javan, the son of Japheth and grandson of Noah.
     
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    Jan Active Member

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    It has been a long time to wait and see the retreat of USA from Syria. But Russians, with the "ships from Kittim" (in my understanding) are advancing little by little in Syria and making it harder and harder for USA to stay in Syria.
     

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