Remote Meetings

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by SingleCell, Sep 16, 2020.

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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Hola hermanos y hermanas

    My family and I have been attending meetings on Zoom for some months now.

    Quite enjoyable, sometimes, though distinctively lacking the same social connectedness.

    Still there is a brotherhood.

    How long can this continue and the Jehovah's Witnesses remain what they were?

    Jehovah's Witnesses won't quit, this isn't the death of the ministry.

    Maybe it is now becoming more online, more digital. The real battleground perhaps.

    But so easily manipulated, where truth can hardly grasp for air before being meme'd into the dirt.

    Where is this going friends? Any speculation?
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    It’s good to have you commenting again SingleCell. I can say, “We have been meeting together for at least 16 years that I have been aware of. It’s just without the video connection. Where this new JW Zoom meetings will go is only a “whistle in the wind”. I see it getting to a point where someone will take control of who says what, and when. The drawback is clearly shown on MSNBC, CNN, and other news channels that use Zoom. There is a time delay when two or more people start talking or attempting to answer a question. They talk over each other, or the delay causes a drop in the vocals and the video freezes.

    I tried Zoom with my family, twice. It didn’t work well. That was with only 14 members. It gets down to taking turns, which isn’t productive. Especially when trying to study a specific subject from the bible. Our system here on e-Jehovah’s Witnesses works well. Everyone gets a chance to write, and everyone gets to give an answer, or question, and comment without interruption.

    When well established television news stations have problems with it; which they have been doing this for a few years, how will it be controlled by people with less experience? I hope you have watched the documentary I mentioned about, on Netflix.“The Social Dilemma”. There are some dangerous situations that can happen by evil people. It's already obvious on Facebook and other services. Also, false witnesses can influence younger members. After all, who is the god of this world? What are his plans?
     
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    thinking

    thinking Member

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    Zoom is keeping most of us connected...some structure is still there...from what I have heard..most of us over our way prefer it....it’s easier and more convenient..people do not feel so rushed and under pressure.
    The whole world is a pressurized cooker,,,,so this is a relief,......We get more Attending on zoom than what we did at meetings...

    But some miss the flesh and blood components..the touch and warmth factor...as I do but there is a lot I DONT MISS..lol...

    Some apparently have voiced that they want it to go back to how it was and hate not meeting together,
    They want things to return to normal.
    We had a old CO...who gave fantastic talks who counseled that we should not be like the Israelites who remembered the old days of eating leek and onions and wanted to go back to where they came from,,,and to stop moaning and groaning about the good old days...that message went around the traps via phone messages..I found it very encouraging..probably because I DONT WANT to go back to how it was...

    So For myself ..I hope we never go back to how it was...I’m hoping we have moved into another era...that Jehovah has done away with that old way...said that is enough of that way....( for whatever reason )
    My personal speculation ( which is probably totally wrong ) is that our Zoom meetings will be banned as well...eventually..all expressions of faith will come under the gun....it’s only a matter of time...not sure I’ll live to see it but it feels like a inevitable change is happening,,,

    It is now easier for people to learn the truth without having to attend meetings and jump thru certain loops...like you said single cell the ministry has not ended..nor will it..EVER..it’s just changed track...our direction of conducting it has changed...
    I personally am shocked at how many people have reached Out asking questions.. ..that in turn is like a continuing Short bible studies....it’s different..but I think it’s better...and incredibly a lot of inactive ones are reconnecting..or ones who just couldn’t meet our standards ( man made standards ) ....

    This time is now a simple and sweet time to preach the Good News....We can now plant the seeds and now allow the helper to water it and make it grow.
    Before in the old way..it was like we had the huge responsibility of having to do it all.( even tho the scriptures told us otherwise ) ..now we have been relieved of a lot of that...
    We preach the good News...and depending on How it is received...it may be a hail like message ( for those who don’t accept or like it) or it can be a sweet message like honey..for those with the right heart condition.
    We never know who or how it is received really...but Jehovah reads that persons heart,,,

    In Victoria Australia We have seen things that we never thought possible happen In a democracy..freedoms taken away and server penalties and curfews and even imprisonment for breaking unheard of laws.
    Neighbors turning on neighbors,,,
    I think we are the only country in the world where any international travel is banned...
    We cannot leave the country and no one can get in...aaaah..we are back to a penal colony once again:eek:

    I’m presuming it is a trial run for darker days ahead concerning prophecies and religion....
    This may pass eventually ....but I think all faiths are being put on notice...especially Witnesses....for we will not sing the anthem or salute the flag...these are things most faiths will allow..there are probably more things but that’s all I can think of at the moment...

    As far as the internet and forums...yeah..welll...it’s the playground of the demons in my opinion...and the greatest of care must be taken,,,
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    I agree with you Thinking, I don't want to go back to normal.

    In person, absolutely -- but let's drop the JW stuff and just get back to creating spiritual warriors for the truth.
     
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    thinking

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    aaaaaah brother but as Pontius Pilot said.....what is truth?....each Spiritual warrior thinks they have the truth...There are spiritual warriors in nearly every faith......So it depends what you mean the JW stuff.....perhaps you could explain for me what you mean .( I’m more than happy to drop a lot of stuff..The quicker the better .....but I’ll fight to the end for other stuff) .
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    2000 years ago the organization was replaced by truth. That truth comes in the form of simple precepts like "love your neighbor".

    I do extrapolate that the Jehovah's Witnesses will be on the front-line of this battle, from prophecy.

    But perhaps after religion/organization is removed from us.

    For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah* will be saved.” - Romans 10:13

    Notice the * asterix in the NWT rendering?

    That is religion trying to limit the message, just like the Pharisees did. Unless you say "Jehovah" you won't be saved is their point.

    We all want forgiveness from our creator. But we want the other person to be punished.

    Currently, the Jehovah's Witness religion believes, but wants others to be punished. (harsh to say, but true)

    Once they stop their version of Christian-prophetic-science I'll join them fully, until then, the religion has to go! This is the age-old battle, and an important one, over "doctrine". But doctrine is also a trap aside from perfect knowledge, and perfect love.

    When they look to the thief dying next to them who expresses a small amount of faith, and respond with love, then you see the truth. Right now, it's about "us vs. them" and "who lives and who dies".
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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    thinking

    thinking Member

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    okay but anyone can love their neighbor....an atheist can love their neighbor...And does...they can be the best of the best of people...yet refuse to bow their knee to the Almighty Creator and his Son....So how is that going to save them?

    On the other hand we can have ones who do acknowledge the Almighty creator and don’t love their neighbour....so how is that going to save those ones?
    so there is a lot more to loving your neighbor than just the words,....

    Also not everyone who calls on the Name of Jehovah will be saved..the scriptures prove that...
    ZEPHANIAH 1...NIV

    Vse2 I will completely sweep away everything from the surface of the ground declares Jehovah
    3: I will sweep away man and beast I will sweep awaythe birds of the heavens and the fishes of the sea. And the STUMBLING BLOCKS ..along...with the wicked ones and I will remove mankind from the surface of the ground declares Jehovah
    4I will stretch out my hand against Judah and against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem and I will wipe out of this place every vestige of Baal
    The name of the foreign god preists along with the preists
    5: And those who bow down on the rooftops to the army of the heavens
    And those who BOW DOWN AND PLEDGE LOYALTY TO JEHOVAH WHILE PLEDGING LOYALTY to Malcam

    MESSAGE BIBLE
    ZEPHANIAH ch1
    V2: I’m going to make a clean sweep of the earth a thorough house cleaning GODS DECREE
    3:men and women and animals including birds and fish Anything and everything that causes sin will go.
    4-6 I’ll start with Judah and everyone who lives in Jerusalem I’ll sweep the place clean of every trace of the sex and religion Baal shrines and their preists.
    I’ll get rid of the people who sneak up to their roof tops at night to worship the star Gods and goddesses and THOSE WHO CONTINUE TO WORSHIP GOD but cover their bases by worshipping other King gods as well. Not to mention those who have dumped God altogether no longer giving him a thought or prayer....

    SingleCell calling out on Jehovah’s name means nothing unless it’s done properly and according g to his wishes...wether you be in the org or out....

    2) Romans 10:13 NIV
    For everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved

    Bible HUB nearly every other translation says
    Romans 10:13
    For whosever shall call upon the name of the LORD will be saved

    so let’s go see what the Bible commentaries says of that scripture

    ELLI OTTS COMMENTARY FOR ENGLISH READERS
    Romans 10:13
    Originally as meaning of Jehovah but with especially reference to the Messanic Advent . Here therefore it is applied to our LORD

    I personally have no problems with this particular translation as it goes in line with what Jesus said....HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER...or...I SAY NOTHING OF MY OWN ACCORD BUT THE ONE WHO SENT ME..
    ..
    You will get witnesses who may use that scripture to point to us as being the one and only...you and I know it goes so much deeper than that...Yes we can as a people have a self righteousness about us...it’s always been like that amongst Gods people down thru the biblical times...Gods people always do it wrong and become corrupted ...it’s a historical fact...but they were still his people ...

    3) As Zephaniah stated the only ones who will be punished are those that have been judged for such punishment ...by Jesus own judgements,,,wether they be with in Gods household or out of Gods household.

    3) you are making a mistake if you are waiting to join them...you don’t or shouldn’t join Jehovah’s witnesses....you tie yourself to Jehovah...and as the old saying goes.....you will be waiting UNTIL KINGDOM COME...:D...For a lot of the errors to be fixed...because that’s what it will take,...but until then we must show patience and endurance...

    4) I don’t know if the man on the stake that died was a Jew or not,( meaning he was one of Gods own people????. ) ,,he is known as the good thief...but the fact is...he still died....even tho forgiven by Jesus...And even tho he acknowledged Jesus in his tribulation...he died before receiving his hope....
    If I remember correctly it was one of the reasons Charles Russell didn’t believe that everybody who dies at Armageddon will get the second death...many he feel will get a resurrection...And a second chance at life in his Day of Judgement...(1,000 year day )
    ( I think we may be in For a lot of surprises )

    If God has a people he has used...they will be full of error...they always are

    1CORINTHIANS 10-1-5 NIV
    Now I want you to know brothers were all under the cloud and all passed thru the sea and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and the sea and all ate the same spiritual food and all drank the same spiritual drink for they all drank from the same spiritual rock that followed them and that rock meant the Christ
    NEVERTHELESS God was not pleased with MOST of them for they were struck down In The wilderness..

    Why do we think things will be any different today ?.
    What you want brother won’t happen until Jesus returns,,,
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Normal: Words related to normal
    natural, traditional, orderly, regular, routine, ordinary, typical, healthy, whole, reasonable, cool, well-adjusted, commonplace, average, median, general, standard, mean, sound, right.

    What is considered as normal depends on who you are and where you are. From that state it becomes abnormal. What is normal for an “elder” could be different for another congregant. What is normal for a “brother” is different for a sister. What is normal for me is not what most people think as normal.

    I have a problem with your statement about the use of “Jehovah”, as a saving point. Just saying his name does not save anyone. But, not using his name allows the false teaching of Jehovah ( LORD ), being the same as Jesus ( Lord ). This leads to the false teaching of the Trinity, and other false teachings. Or, how about using GOD, God, and god? Who is being spoken of, and for what purpose?
    How can a person “call on the name of the Lord”, if they don’t know it, or use it to distinguish which god, or Lord they call? God and Lord are not names, no matter whether all capitals, or combinations of upper case and lower case letters, they are titles. ( Gen 4:26, 12:8, 13:4, 21:33 ) “For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. ( 1 Cor 8:5-6 NKJV )

     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Sorry, disappeared from the internet for a few days!

    I agree with both of your replies, and through no fault of yours (*cough* I'm awful at expressing a point clearly *cough*), are probably responding to something I'm not suggesting.

    Thinking:

    By "JW stuff" I simply mean this:

    The idea that approaching Jehovah through the organization, as if it were the ancient Temple in Jerusalem and a requirement from God, is the 'right' and 'official' way to approach him.

    The problem is he replaced the organizational system with something better, as the scriptures say. Not a temple (organization) built by hands.

    The WTBS organization is trying to move us backwards, before Christ, by making the organization required to approach Jehovah. They might not say this directly, but in 35 years attending meetings I certainly have that impression. (maybe I'm wrong)

    In some view they aren't wrong, because Christendom is much worse by most metrics!

    100 years ago they/we correctly called "religion a snare and a racket".

    That is the "religion" among JWs that needs to disappear, the idea that through the organization we approach Jehovah. Not spirit and truth.


    "What you want brother won’t happen until Jesus returns,,," - Thinking. Absolutely true sister.

    To your point about a 'moral' atheist: agreed, but that is about salvation, a different topic. Truth is something else entirely.

    Tsaphah:

    What a conundrum! My point about that * asterix in the text was to suggest that it represents a repeat of the Pharisaical mindset playing out among Jehovah's Witness teaching. Throwing objects in the way of a person trying to find Jehovah.

    Can the use of YHWH be a stumbling block? Absolutely, because if a new student interprets that verse as meaning:

    "well, OK, only Jehovah's Witnesses 'call on Jehovah', so they are saying only they will be saved? That doesn't sound right! I'm ending the study."

    What "we" should be teaching is that it is God's will that all men be saved, and to the Greek become a Greek [which is to say, speak to them with as few artificial barriers as possible] to get them there. To a Jew speak as to a Jew, which might mean emphasizing the importance of Jehovah's name!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
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    thinking

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    Oooh..thank goodness...so sorry..yes I did misunderstand....I read your answer more than a few times and thought...oh no...surely he is not saying that,,,,lol...and you weren’t,,
    It’s usually me with foot in mouth..;)...I get you now...and I had foot in ear..
    If we had been having a coffee over a table this wouldn’t have happened...such is writing and not seeing facial expressions and tones or being able to say..or ask something to quickly clarify a misunderstood thought...

    yes I agree with you....we are on the same page...wheeewh...yes..I think it started to go haywire after Russell...but it was always doomed to be like that...because we are mere men and always ...and I’m talking spiritual men always exaggerate their own importance...job did it..in expressing his self righteousness to Jehovah assuring his pain...Moses did it...hitting the rock twice and claiming he bought the water....And the Judas element has to be there...even the fake anointed entering the bridegroom feast in Revelation and Jesus calling him to be thrown out.....
    All these things have to occur...and it’s painful and frustrating...and I hope there are those who have bible studies ( I know there is actually ) who say Jehovah reads hearts and we cannot say that anymore...( that only JWs will be saved because we call on Jehovah) ...I know that was said from the society...but believe me...a lot in the ranks don’t feel that way...
    I just hope we are going into another stage or era...and yeah...I know it may last a long time...:(

    thank you for your patience ..single cell
     
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    thinking

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    I’m putting this talk up which I have listened to about four times...each time I get another point....it’s especially good for ones who wonder why they stay with JWs..or even ones who have gone quiet and feel frustrated...
    Its by a Kenneth Stewart ...you have to over look that he’s a Trinitarian..and believes in hell fire....and going to heaven,,,but don’t be put off by that,,.,it’s a superb talk....
    I often wonder how men who have such deep understanding like this can be in Christendom or still be a Trinitarian....and then I wonder about the raven and Elijah....
    Bro T did a post on it....why did Jehovah use a unclean bird to feed Elijah....he didn’t have to use a raven ...so why ???...also why just a morsel....why not a full chop..or steak...why just enough...( I think I’ve worked it out but I’m not sure,..)


    I came into the truth with this caliber Of sermon....he has articulated why we need to trust Jehovah in leading us to Jehovah’s Witness...he doesn’t say that but all will hopefully get his points concerning us...and searching the scriptures etc...A really really brilliant talk.

    I hope Jehovah blesses this man for helping me keep afloat spiritually with deeper understandings ...

     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I understand what you are saying about “organizations”. Paul taught about Jehovah in the way you mention. It is necessary to appeal to each person according to their background. It is also necessary to recognize their attitude and whether they are really wanting to know the truth. Are they a Pharisee or a Sadducee. It could be that they are more interested in arguing with you, to try to show you are wrong.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I enjoyed that post Thinking. Thanks for your contributions...
     
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    Jan

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    Hello friends, and thanks Joshua for the kind email inviting us all back to the forum.

    Let me give my opinion to the strange situation with remote meetings and the strange situation in the world with all these restrictions imposed by the governments.

    I believe this has something to do with the prophecy in Daniel 11:30,31. I think these verses are in the process of fulfilment.
    It mentions the removal of the daily feature/sacrifice.
    And we could expect more restrictions according to those scriptures. It says: "and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature."

    The lockdowns could be compared to the siege of Jerusalem in 66CE. And Christians were ready to flee as soon as the Romans would retreat.
    We too, I believe will soon have the opportunity to flee. And that will happen as a fulfilment to the symbolic woman's flight mentioned in Revelation 12. And this will also fulfill the prophecy in Ezekiel 38 where it says that people will flee from the ravages of the sword to a safe place and be there for a while and after some time Gog will come there too with his armies to plunder them. But he will be destroyed as we already know.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Good to see ya Jan!

    It's a very trying world we are in right now, and it appears things will only continue to degrade. It really is important that we stick together as a community hear and assist our friends who are going through a lot of trials these days.

    Most of us here have been friends and spiritual family for more the fifteen years, and we really need to stick together in these times as things progressively deteriorate around the world.

    All love...
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Good to see ya Jan!

    It's a very trying world we are in right now, and it appears things will only continue to degrade. It really is important that we stick together as a community hear and assist our friends who are going through a lot of trials in life.

    Most of us here have been friends and spiritual family for more the fifteen years, we really need to support and look out for each other.

    All love...
     
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    The covid situation will likely raise many silent eyebrows and provoke anticipation for watchmen and believers.

    This should be usefull to alert the world wide associsation of the lack of the ability for the centralised hq to apprehend world evemts.

    I anticipate / suspect, this covid situation will subside providing breif pause before the world enters into a wholly more precarious phase.

    possible indicators exist as elevated military activity in the south china sea
     
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    RR144 New Member

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    It will last as long as the donations keep coming in. I suspect that the JW's will continue, but on a much smaller scale. They will shrink in size if covid prevents them from meeting physically. It will also be an opportunity for those who are fading to fade. Will elders do shepherding calls to check on individuals and families?

    There are plenty of groups who have been meeting online without issues. The key is not "what will the JW's do?" But, what will YOU do? You must continue to "Study to show yourself approved to God".

    RR
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Very wise counsel sir...

    Our faith is based on our relationship with Jehovah, it certainly is not based on our status before the elders at the Kingdom Halls. I wish more people understood that because so much damage has been done because of this false narrative...

    "Look! Each of the chieftains of Israel among you uses his authority to shed blood. Within you they treat their father and mother with contempt. They defraud the foreign resident, and they mistreat the fatherless child and the widow." Eze 22:6,7

    And you are right, imagine how many have probably fallen away because of these online meetings. What of those who were trying their best to serve God in the only manner they knew, through the Kingdom halls. There is no search for the little ones, those weak, in need...

    If you know anyone in need of a gathering place and fellowship without judgement, please send them here RR. This place has been a much-needed respite for many of faith over the years.
     
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    RR144 New Member

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    Sounds like a plan :)

    RR
     
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