Rev 12 / Verse By Verse

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by Joshuastone7, Oct 26, 2016.

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Rev 12:1,2 "Then a great sign was seen in heaven: A woman was arrayed with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of 12 stars, and she was pregnant. And she was crying out in her pains and in her agony to give birth."

    It appears what we start with here in Rev 12 verses 1-2 is the beginning of the sacred secret. That plan in the garden of Eden that set out the completion of Jehovah's redemption of mankind, and the establishment of his kingdom.

    Gen 3:15 "And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring."

    The women being that of the spiritual bride of Christ represented by the 12 stars, 12 tribes of Israel, or their fulfillment in that of Christs brothers of 144k.

    The sun and moon represent the light that shines over mankind to light their way...

    Gen 1:16 "And God went on to make the two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for dominating the night, and also the stars."

    The women is seen as pregnant because from the very beginning Jehovah had set forth the completion of these events before they occurred.

    1Cor 2:7 "But we speak God’s wisdom in a sacred secret, the hidden wisdom, which God foreordained before the systems of things for our glory."

    Rev 10:7 "But in the days when the seventh angel is about to blow his trumpet, the sacred secret that God declared as good news to his own slaves the prophets is indeed brought to a finish.”

    Revelation chapter 12 begins all the way back from the very beginning of this system of things in that very first prophecy.
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Rev 12:3,4 "Another sign was seen in heaven. Look! A great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and on its heads seven diadems; and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she did give birth, it might devour her child."

    Of course entering into the scene is Satan himself, the other half of that first prophecy.

    Gen 3:15b "He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.”

    At the same moment Jehovah prophecies the women who will bring about the redemption of mankind and the establishment of his kingdom, he also prophecies the firery colored dragon with seven heads and ten horns, representing Satan's kingdoms here on earth.

    Rev 13:1 "And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and on its horns ten diadems, but on its heads blasphemous names."

    So we see encompassed within the first prophecy at Gen 3:15 the completed establishments of both Jehovah's kingdom and Satan's deep in the time of the end. As well the first 4 verses in Rev 12 give us a detailed explanation of the first prophecy in Gen 3:15.

    We also see the dragon drags a third of the stars of heaven. Of course we know these stars are angels that forsook their position in heaven to follow Satan and his selfish desires, when some came down to have relations with women.

    Gen 6:4 "During that time the sons of the true God continued to have relations with the daughters of men, and these bore sons to them."

    Now the dragon kept standing before the women who was about to give birth so that it may devour her child. Of course we know this to represent Christ Jesus whom came to earth and died a ransom as a perfect man, but this did not stop the dragon from tempting Christ Jesus in hopes of disrupting Jehovah's plan.
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Rev 12:5 "And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away to God and to his throne."

    Christ Jesus was baptized in order to do Jehovah's will in establishing a new covenant with the 144k he would collect out of mankind to rule with him in heaven over his established kingdom here on earth.

    Luk 22:20 "This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf."

    After his preaching tour Christ Jesus was sacrificed for all the sins of mankind, at which point he was resurrected and returned to sit at the right hand of God.

    Mth 22:44 "Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet"
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Rev 12:6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days."

    The 70th week of Dan 9 began with Christ Jesus baptism, and ended with Cornelius baptism 7 years later. You can find a detailed discussion of this in my video entitled "70 Weeks of Daniel 9" HERE. Therefore once the sacrifices were no longer valid and ceased as far as Jehovah was concerned at the temple at the half of that week Christs brothers had to go into hiding for the last half of that week, or 3 and a half years, for fear of their lives because of great persecution.

    As well as far as Christs brothers were concerned their constant feature, their lord, and their freedom to preach had ceased while they would be hunted after Christ Jesus death. The event that opened up that covenant for a kingdom to all mankind was the fulfillment of one of the keys of Peter when Cornelius was baptized, ending those 1260 days and that last half of the 70th week.

    These events foreshadow a fulfillment in the time of the end as well when the constant feature in that time will be removed and Gods people go into captivity to a spiritual Babylon. There will be 1260 days from the moment of the Watchtower fall to the establishment of Christ as king of Gods kingdom. After which point the covenant is fulfilled to the "many" the true spiritual Israel, the remaining ones of Christs brothers, and then to all the world, just as Cornelius baptism represented.
     
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    Frank Conger

    Frank Conger Guest

    When were these scriptures fulfilled? Have you narrowed it down to a Century yet?
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    If you read my posts you'll see I said they were fulfilled in the first century...
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Rev 12:7-9 "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him."

    War brakes out it heaven between Michael and Satan where Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven to the earth. This moment was right after Jesus ascended to heaven. We know this because of when the women flees into the wilderness, comparable to when Christ Jesus ascended.

    Let's read that;

    Rev 12:5b,6 "And her child was snatched away to God and to his throne. (CAST OUT) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days."

    Now compare what we read in 13 and 14;

    Rev 12:12-14 "Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time. Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth (CAST OUT), it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is to be fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent."

    So therefore the moment of the war between Michael and Satan occurred when Christ Jesus ascended back into heaven. Once he reentered heaven victorious after giving his perfect life as a redemption of mankind, there was no need for Satan and his angels to remain in heaven and they were thrown out.

    The 1260 days mentioned of here in Rev 12 speak of that time between Christ Jesus death when the sacrifices at the physical temple became invalid, to the day Cornelius was baptized ending the 70th week of Dan 9.

    These 1260 days however have their final fulfillment in the time of the end, in our future...
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Rev 12:10 "I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!"

    This scriptures references should seem pretty obvious to most of us here on this forum. The salvation that had just come to pass was Christ Jesus's offering himself as a sacrifice for all mankind for our salvation.

    By his remaining faithful God's kingdom was established and assured to come to fruition. While the power and authority of that kingdom was shown in casting Satan out of heaven upon Christ Jesus's resurrection and ascension.
     
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    Frank Conger

    Frank Conger Guest

    Hi Joshua:

    So what your saying is that God's Kingdom was established 2000 years ago and we have just continued living in this system of things under Satan's Authority "just for the fun of it"?

    Josh, keep your wits about you. You are a smart guy, but this explanation is way passed a "super stretch".

    Frank
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I invite you to a new thread where I opened up this discussion, so it wont take over this thread;

    Click here: When Christ Jesus Begins Ruling
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Rev 12:11 "And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death."

    "They" spoken of in this verse are those brothers mentioned in the previous verse 10 who the accuser accuses before God night and day. They conquer by the blood of the lamb, the salvation by Christs ransom also mentioned in the previous verse of 10.

    They overcome the accuser, even in the face of death, and receive salvation by Christ Jesus ransom sacrifice.
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Rev 12:12 "On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”

    It should be clear now that directly after the ransom sacrifice war breaks out in heaven and Satan is cast to the earth. The kingdom of God is established in heaven and a call for the heavens to be glad however, there is woe for the earth, for Satan is thrown down knowing he has a short time. We should keep in mind that had Satan been alive for some millions or even billions of years, his ouster from heaven not knowing exactly how long he had would have been a short time remaining indeed.
     
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    Rev 12:13,14 "Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is to be fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent."

    As mentioned before, these scriptures tell us that the 1260 days began directly after Satan is thrown out of heaven. As well verses 5 & 6 show that Satan is cast out as soon as Christ Jesus ascends into heaven. Therefore the 1260 days mentioned in Rev 12 must coincide with the last half of 70th week of Daniel 9 from the moment Jesus is sacrificed until Cornelius is baptized, opening that covenant for a Messiah up to the whole world. This period marked the great persecution of the early Christians directly after Christ Jesus sacrifice when the dragon attempted to snuff out that women directly after giving birth to her son, the ruler of God's kingdom. He was snatched away to God, while the women remained here on earth...

    This does not exclude these 1260 days from an end time fulfillment as well. Rev 11:3 states a time of 42 months the two witnesses will preach in sackcloth, while previous fulfillments were shown in the Maccabean revolt and as well 66-70 CE in the Jewish revolt, there will also be a 1260 day period in the time of the end, and these prophecies help prepare Christ Jesus remaining brothers for their work to come in that time.

    The mentioning of the "time, times and half a time" allows us an understanding of the time period mentioned of in Dan 12, and duration of those 1260 days.
     
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    Rev 12:15 "And the serpent spewed out water like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river."

    Directly after the death of our Lord Christ Jesus there was a great persecution of the early Christians when they were banned from teaching Christ had risen and subsequently hunted down, imprisoned and even murdered.

    As we know, Satan's attempt at drowning the women and the early church after his ouster from heaven failed to stop the Lords early followers, and once Cornelius was baptized (ending the final 70th week of Dan 9), then the Israel of God become open to all mankind, ensuring Christianity was firmly established for these 2000 years now at least.
     
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    Rev 12:16 "But the earth came to the woman’s help, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon spewed out from its mouth."

    Satan's attempts at squashing early Christianity failed when the Romans tried to snuff out the Apostles, but the friends came to the aid of Christ's brothers and allowed the truth about the resurrection of Christ Jesus to spread throughout all the surrounding areas.
     
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    Thinking

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    One of our latest study articles speak of when this happened ..we actually went into captivity to Babylon....and came out Of it with Russell.....I have not studied it yet...just a brief read.....but it actually makes sense.....

    It sort of explains the loss of the scriptures and banned bible ..the dark ages and inquisition...would be interested to see what others think of the article ...it also in my mind anyway supports that Satan was ousted from heaven then....
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    There are three main theories among those who attempt understanding of these chronologies.

    One in that all these events including Revelation were all fulfilled in the first century.

    Second that all events in prophecy have occurred over the last 2000 years.

    Third that these events in chronology all have a fulfillment in our future, in the "time of the end".

    I however have held to a fourth, that these events in chronology had an original fulfillment and will have a later fulfillment, the first being the yard stick to understand it's later fulfillment.

    Examples can be found from the Maccabean Revolt serving as an example of the events in 66-70CE, and as well those events in the Jewish war with those that will occur in the time of the end.

    There are subtle events within first fulfillments that did not come to fruition, and point to a future fulfillment, such as signs in sun and moon, and not least of which our Lords kingdom becoming visible in this world.

    So therefore let's take Mth 24, Luk 21 and Mrk 13 for example and say although much of what is written there had a first century fulfillment, these first fulfillments are a guiding stone in order to measure out the end time chronology. Like a beautiful spiders web, scripture is perfectly woven without a single error, and I do not mean translation, or word for word, but concept, structure, and above all intended prophetic significance that reaches down to our day. Although archaeology has proven over and over that all text is nearly 100% accurate despite all millennia.

    As for when Satan was cast out of heaven, Rev 12 is the only location in scripture that gives us hint, and that is found here;

    Rev 12:7-9 "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him."

    So then, in the previous scripture we see what occurs just before this war when Satan is ousted;

    Rev 12:6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days."

    So therefore Satan is cast out directly after the women fled into the wilderness, but what precedes the woman fleeing?

    Rev 12:5 "And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away to God and to his throne."

    Christ Jesus is baptized and then sacrificed before ascending into heaven.

    You see, the 70th week of Dan 9 began with Jesus's baptism, and at the half of that week sacrifices at the temple were no longer valid when Christ is sacrificed, at which point there were 1260 days left, and this was directly after Jesus was sacrificed.

    Dan 9:27 "And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week, he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease."

    The 1260 days the women flees into the wilderness are the 1260 days before Cornelius is baptized and the Covenant is no longer to the "many" (Israel), but to all mankind.

    Again, although these events had a first fulfillment, they occurred in order for our Lords prophets in the time of the end could understand the events that would come upon the world, on a grand scale.

    As for what is correct as it pertains to chronology, I have resigned myself to acknowledged that it will take a miracle, an act of God himself to bring us together under a single prophetic understanding. We are sheep scattered about with any number of paths, all leading out in differing directions. So I am now content to rest on my faith in our God Jehovah, and that his will be done and the establishment of his kingdom will reveal his true intentions for the time of the end.
     
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    Rev 12:17 "So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus."

    In these last 2000 years the dragon has most certainly waged war with the remaining ones of Christs brothers, and during the time of the end there will be a final fulfillment of these 1260 days that will end with Jehovah's kingdom coming to this earth. May we all stand firm, keeping our faith, and continually approaching Jehovah in prayer with all earnestness.
     
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    @Joshuastone7 I am a bit confused by this prophecy.

    How can Jesus be the "seed of the woman" and the "woman" also be Jesus' bride? Is he marrying his mother? Also, how can the 144K, who are also part of the woman's seed, be the mother also?
     
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    Technically Jesus created the women. Since he is the Word, and the master worker he created the process that would bring in Jehovah's kingdom. Therefore his process/women is what gave birth to his coming to earth to sacrifice himself, and then draw in his co-rulers into the same organizational arrangement.

    Jesus creates process (Gen 3:15/Sacred Secret), and it's this process that brings him to the earth (birth), then through gathering his brothers, they all come together into the women/organizational arrangement and process Jesus created.

    The marriage is the fulfillment or completion of the sacred secret and kingdom of God to the earth.

    It's a bit like Jesus's statement to eat his flesh. (Jhn 6:53) It is a metaphor...
     

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