Hi Singlecell:

What gives you the inclination to think that the U.N. gives a rats posterior body part for what the Watchtower thinks or does? You are talking about 1/10th of 1% of the worlds population (if you count all JW's, not just the headquarters people). What politically powerful group has ever cared about the opinion of that small of a lobbying group from which they also get no bribes or graft or political capital in exchange? just saying...

frank

 

holy cow its like the Tuesday night book study in here! studying the Bab Alon book and I still think Jehovah has given us puzzle books and doodle sheets while we sit in the backseat trying to guess what's next! to me its all the same Jesus wins devil loses and the game in between is for entertainment because we already know who wins. but I am far more interested in seeing this end than how it will end. I have been waiting since 1975 to see something exciting and so far I say give me a refund and let me go buy me a nice retirement home and a rocking chair and feed the birds.

 

Rev 13:16-18

Anyone who recieves the mark of the beast, this is an individual test, not a religion or the Wt, but individual.

 

Panda can I ask why you say this.......I have wondered a number of things about this ...one being ....somehow we will have to give some form of obedience to the UN.....or perhaps approval of the society and it's status with the UN that may become even deeper than itis now?

 

I can see this happening cs....problem is I can also see a number of other scenario's happening as well........I'm not very encouraging hey

 

The WT is under the control of Satan the MOL sits in the temple of God, if the GB do not repent they will go from bad to worse and their true colors will be obvious to those that love Gods word.

As individuals our salvation depends on following the shepherd Christ, he knows who is sheep are and the sheep know who their real shepherd is, they do not listen to the voice of strangers, and they will see the wolf in sheep's clothing, will those that truly love Jehovah over the organization hear the voice of the shepherd, YES but others will go down because they believe the words of men rather than the life saving words of Jehovah, to be aware of men coming in sheep's clothing, they want to take the sheep away with them.

Don't know where the WT is heading and what other secrets they really have, all I know is that they are not so far repentant of their secret relationship with the UN, for this reason they can only go from bad to worse.

All we can do as individuals is to obey the voice of the fine shepherd the greater Moses Jesus Christ, and individually our relationship with Jehovah is what will save us, and help us to endure the onslaught of Satan and his organization to break our loyalty to Jehovah, by fear and persecution trying to break individual JW into receiving the mark of the beast to save their souls.

Has the four horsemen run yet, no I don't believe they have, that includes hunger, pestilence etc....

 

Hi Singlecell:

It sounds as if you are saying that because the WT encourages it’s people to not engage in warfare as they have always been taught, at least since WWI, that that is the reason that Jehovah will bring judgement in the form of persecution from the nations (U.N.) on them (the JW’s). From my point of view this is actually one of the big reasons why Jehovah chose them to be the collecting vessel for the members of the Bride of Christ during this second presence of Christ (the first presence obviously being the first Century when he was on literally in the flesh and later through the flesh of his body, his bride).

That job though has reached it’s completion and the WT is no longer needed or wanted by Jehovah as the final collecting vessel of the “harvest at the conclusion of the system of thingsâ€. The Watchtower has already been judged and has been for years. You cannot as a person, or as a collective group go on as an unrepentant sinner and continue to have the blessing of our heavenly Father. We are all sinners, but the difference is that some choose to fully acknowledge their sins before God and repent for them and turn around to doing good. The Watchtower in their faulty and evil reasoning think that they can “cover over†their heinous sins (not by repentance and faith) but by some sorts of good works, the main one being the preaching work. Although the preaching work is commendable, from Jehovah’s standpoint, only those that are clean in his sight can have his blessing while preaching the Good News. Unfortunately, the WT has refused to bow before Jehovah and all onlookers in repentance of their sins, and therefore cannot receive his continued blessing and acceptance of their good works, no matter what form they take. They have been discarded and a new collecting vessel will be chosen to accept all those that are collected by the angels in the oncoming “conclusion of a system of thingsâ€. If it was only JW’s who were going to be saved, why would Jehovah and Jesus need the angels to do the collecting? In the eyes of the organization and individual JW’s the collecting work has already been finished. I tell you that the collecting work it only about to begin, and it will be accomplished not by the WT society, but by the angels of God.

Listen to Panda’s admonition in her comment. Keep listening for the voice of the fine shepherd and you will hear his voice, calling to all his sheep whether in the WT or in the other religions of the world. Yes, just as Jehovah and Jesus “called out†the individual members of “Christ’s Bride†and collected them into the Watchtower, he will now, through his angels collect out of all the nations the harvest of faithful souls into a new collecting vessel. How do you find this vessel, you ask? Listen for the voice of the find shepherd and follow it’s admonition. Remember though that it is not likely to be a place that you would suspect, just as Jehovah’s Witnesses or International Bible Students was not what anyone would have expected as the collecting vessel of God. Listen for the voice, but listen carefully as there is and will continue to be many imposters acting like and speaking like they are the Christ (or a member of his “bodyâ€, therefore essentially being the Christ as they are all “one fleshâ€). I do not, and have never proclaimed that I am of that “calling outâ€, so don’t even go there.

The Watchtower had a good run as Jehovah’s collecting vessel for the members of the first new covenant ( the bride) in this time period. But just like all of Jehovah’s people in the past, after a time they outlive that usefulness and start believing their own “press†about themselves, develop a big head and open a way for Satan to wedge his way in. It is who we are as a race.

But do not be discouraged, for Jehovah God and his only begotten Son have a better plan. Listen for that voice and test it out as to it’s real spirit so as not to be deceived.
By the way, it is not Jehovah that is bringing these things on mankind, it is the adversary for the reason of confusion. He knows that the Kingdom of God is in Power now, but he will not give up his earthly administration of mankind without a fight. He has been kicked out of the heavens and that is the reason for the coming commotion and calamity on earth, not the judging of the “house of Godâ€, that has already been accomplished.

“ 12 On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them!+ Woe+ for the earth and for the sea,+ because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.â€+ “ Rev. 12:12

Yes, he certainly will try to take out his wrath on the remaining ones of “her seed†while stirring up the rest of mankind, but that is not the judgement of God either on the WT or the people of earth in general. No, this will all be Satan’s idea and his rage and it is coming very soon.
Jehovah will bring destruction on “unfaithful†mankind after he has collected out his sheep and wheat and placed them in his storehouse. That will be Armageddon. i know this may be a hard pill to swallow that the WT is no longer seen by Jehovah as his special people, it was for me as well as I spent nearly 30 years as a baptized JW. But once you accept that this is possible your ears and hearts will be ready to hear the voice of the true shepherd. The Jews in Jesus day no doubt went through this as well, perhaps even more severe, but for those who were able to let go of that "tradition" a new tradition was started in thier hearts and minds. It will pain you to have to "give up" on the WT and all that entails, but remember, you are doing this to follow after Jesus your true shepherd.

frank

 

Hi Singlecell:

Listen for the voice of Jesus. If you still hear it in the callings of the WT then by all means remain there, but do not be surprised if the voice is heard coming from a different place.

If I were a pioneer and I had been involved in an adulterous but confidential relationship with someone obviously other than my wife for as long as perhaps, oh I don't know TEN YEARS, but then "cut off" that relationship without repenting to Jehovah or my wife or to anyone else who was aware of my adulterous conduct, not do to repentance but because I was "found out", would it be acceptable to God if I just picked up the pieces of my ministry and bible studies and teaching work and all would just be forgotten? Do you really believe that? Do you believe that an organization that did just that, not to mention your ideas on 1914 etc (which I don't share) would continue to have the blessings from Almighty God and that he would still allow them to baptize people with a valid baptism? Really? I don't. Just as the Jewish system outlived it's purpose and Jesus did not try to salvage it (the disciples sort of did for a time until Paul came along) so too, the Watchtower has outlived it's purpose and has been discarded just as the Jewish system was by Christ. He said he would knock down the temple and in three days build it up again. Keep listening as that is happening again'

frank

 

Frank, I would be very carefull about speaking against the house of Jehovah....it is a serious thing you are doing...more so ..since you were once part of that house serving Jehovah.
where did you learn his name.....where did you learn about Armageddon.....where did you learn about the kingdom and how it works and who will be ruling in that kingdom.......who taught you about Jehovah's great plan.

Do you think that Jehovah cannot control his house, do you think he is blind to what is going on.
how come you have no fear of speaking against the wheat like class of his servants.

There are many in his house that he still loves and guides, he gives them his holy spirit when needed and asked for.......would he do that if he had a abandoned his house......or perhaps they are imagining this merciful gift from their Father.

How come you can not get the examples of past people that belonged to Jehovah.
he wrote about them as to examples for us......always......always they became corrupted and Jehovah disciplined them........those examples are not there just for padding....they are there to show us what to expect in the time of the end......why is it that you can not discern this?

What about the example of the Israelites ....he was so mad with them he felt like annihilating them before they even crossed the red sea............why didn't he

FOR THE SAKE OF HIS NAME............he continued with those people until they were visibly and obviously disciplined by him.

Ezekial BUT I ACTED FOR THE SAKE OF MY NAME, THAT IT MIGHT NOT BE PROFANED BEFORE THE EYES OF THE NATIONS, BEFORE WHO'S EYES I HAD BOUGHT THEM FORTH.........nor has his current people been disciplined ...unless off course you beleive the 1919 thing........

You have come up against the house of Jehovah Frank......it would be wise to rethink your position..look at how he treats those that come up against his house.
remember EDOM.

Ezekial....25:12..THIS IS WHAT THE SOVERIGN LORD JEHOVAH HAS SAID, FOR THE REASON THAT EDOM HAS ACTED IN TAKING VENGENCE UPON THE ...HOUSE OF JUDAH......AND THEY KEPT DOING WRONG EXTENSIVLEY AND AVENGED THEMSELVES ON THEM.
THEREFORE THIS ISWHAT THE SOVERIGN LORD JEHOVAH HAS SAID. I WILL ALSO STRETCH OUT MY HAND AGAINST EDOM AND CUT OFF FROM IT MAN AND DOMESTIC ANIMAL, AND I WILL MAKE IT A DEVASTATED PLACE.......AND MUST DO TO EDOM ACCORDING TO MY ANGER AND MY RAGE.

look at the principle involved here,.....

We cannot speak abusively about Jehovah's house Frank, not you me or anybody on this forum.....or anybody reading this forum.......Jehovah won't put up with it...and who of us wants to find themselves on the wrong side of the true God.

Yes we are moaning and groaning with what is going on in his house...but we have the utmost faith that he is Justice itself and powerfully enough to act.

I really really hope you think things thru Frank

Sis thinking

 

their is questions and complaints against any faith or religious group you can think of. I used to believe adamant that the watchtower society was Jehovah's one true earthly organization. now I realize that that notion is rather uh silly! let me give you an example let us take a generic alcoholic and drug center that does no other spiritual work except teach the basic bible gospel for getting men off drugs and alcohol. this group is recognized as the most effective program in the world. now since this group bears good fruits by obeying and studying the bible. it can not in anyway be considered a false religion. yet you won't hear the watchtower society offer them one word of encouragement. their are to date a hundred or so branches of this Christian organization and it obviously has gods blessings..... therefore the watchtower society is not gods sole organization in charge on earth... their is another that's in charge of helping the sick.. now I make another example their is another organization whose sole job is to make and distribute generic bibles.throughout the world.they quite obviously have Jehovah's blessing they have been doing this for ages and never ask for anything except please donate for more bibles...and again the wbts
is not friends with them..another organization in charge of bible publication. still another organization that is not a part of the ants has the sole job of going to jails to deliver a bible and a personal care bag to honor Jesus. again no friends with the ants and no false religion involved a bible some personal stuff and an encouragement to read it..yes another large group in charge of prison ministry. but let me tell you what the watchtower is good at they make ministry by literature. I'm sorry but I have yet to see any sign whatsoever that the watchtower society is the leader over all of Jehovah's ministrys. their doctrine has just as many imperfections as any other religious group even though they do try to make it a point that the light is always changeing. and while they may have less open violence than other religious groups their is more violence and abuse toward women and children than most. the point here is if you are so sure that the wbts is Jehovah's earthly that you ignore or regect gods holy spirit if he convicts you to do spiritual work outside of the wbts or even convince yourself that its a demon telling you to do work not connected with the watchtower society. revelation is and has all ways been a book of great spiritual quandery. and I asked Jehovah to help me know what its all about. now notice that revelation to john. does not say revelation to ari or revelation to tom! that is because Jehovah wants you to sit down and ask him to reveal to your person his will for your life not a general revelation to the public. a revelation from god to you so that you can have a real life testimony. or you can choose to delivery what somebody else says to! me I'm not delivering any secondhand testimony because Jehovah gave me a real life revelation and I don't even attempt to explain the 1 he gave john 20000 years ago

 

Hi Sis:

I appreciate your cautionary words for me, thank you. I really mean that and am not trying to be a "wise guy" in this regard. I know how you feel and i hear what you are saying, but don't you suppose that the Jewish People were saying the same thing to the newly born Christians of their time? Be careful you guys, this is Jehovah's house and this is his temple where his spirit resides and has for thousands of years.

All that was true for Centuries of time and yet the time came when it was time to abandon the old for the new (Judaism with it's grand Temples and Priesthood for simple ole Christian Faith. I think that time is fast approaching and I think you may need to be preparing yourself for it's inevitability. I say the same thing to you as I said to SC. If you think that Jesus voice is still coming from the Watchtower, then by all means stay put where you are. If you are sure that you hear his voice from a different direction, be careful but test out the spirit of the message to make sure it really is the true shepherd. If it is then you should follow the sound of that voice to where it leads.

These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women;+ in fact, they are virgins.+ These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes.+ These were bought+ from among mankind as firstfruits+ to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no falsehood was found in their mouths;+ they are without blemish.+ Rev. 14:4

This was a copy and paste from the jw.org website of Rev. 14:4, I don't know why the plus signs are there, it must be a new format, I guess.

Anyway, the scripture shows us that these ones follow Jesus no matter where he goes. That statement in itself implies that Jesus goes somewhere. I think it means he goes out of the old house and into the new. If these spiritual virgins are supposed to follow Jesus no matter where he goes then the same principle applies to all of Christ's possessions.

I am not telling you to go anywhere. I am cautioning you that if you hear the voice of Jesus coming from someplace other than the Watchtower that you should listen, test the spirit of the expression, and once you are sure it is indeed Jesus speaking, that you will react without haste or be held back by sentimentality or whatever might hold you back. But again, if you feel Jesus voice is still coming from the WTBTS, then by all means stick where you are. I read your post as coming from someone of sincerity of heart, I appreciate that from you to me.

frank

 

Oh boy your frustrating !!!!i wish I could shake the truth back into you.

Jesus probably will go out of the house and into something new.....JUST NOT YET!!!!!
the old will be done away with but your jumping the gun.....I'm expecting something like the Christians experienced and all that went with leaving the old Jewish system.
BUT.....until that house was utterly destroyed the apostles continued to preach there, they still used it after christs death.......in a way that's like the situation today......we still remain even tho it's on wobbly legs.....we stay until the new comes in.........that's the example that has been set for us..........and anyway, you havnt just jumped the gun, you have blooming well rewritten all his belief system.........ahhh but there is still time left......

 

The woman fled to the wilderness for 31/2 times........so she fled for a specific time......but what happened with her after that?

 

Hi Thinking;

Jesus pretty much rewrote the belief system of the Jews in the Christian congregation and he will do it again to the belief system of the Watchtower, because it is ultimately him that we follow, not the Baal of the WT or the Golden Calf if you would prefer. yes, the Apostles and early Jewish Christians made a valient effort to keep hold of the Jewish traditions but they were shown by Paul that that thinking was antiquated and out of date. The Pharisees and the Scribes also thought they had all of God's teachings nailed in their worship and traditions, but they could not have been further from the truth if they tried. JW's of course feel the same way about their teachings, but they will change them as well. Not because I say so, but because Jesus will keep what is fine and replace the rest, you can be assured of that.

frank