LOL, I don't ... disagree Jesus didn't judge the Samaritan woman at the well, yet Samaritans have different doctrine from Jews; so what business it of mine to 'separate the sheep' into different pens? But from an organizational viewpoint, the waters become muddy, bad doctrine should be peacefully opposed.
I think their a bible story about 2 righteous men that got overcrowded with each other they shook hands and agreed that hey I will go that way and you can go that way! but I'm sure that they invited each other over once in awhile and fellowshipped. I like the bible students because they still have pastrami sandwich's and popcorn balls and still sing songs out of the old gold song book! but in order to get to go to one of their Assemblys you have to have your secret decoder ring and know the password.
now a question jesus preached to the spirits in prison that had sometimes been disobedient right after his death? can someone explain what this means? and why would he preach to the disobedient spirits in prison if they were eternally condemned.
To let them know that he has conquered the world and that he has been granted all authority in the heavens and the earth. Informing them that he is now officially their executioner. And that their abyssing and eventual destruction will be carried out as scheduled. If Im not mistaken, Before Jesus came to the earth...he had no such authority. Recall the account when satan was arguing with him about the whereabouts of Moses body? All he did was humbly say "May Jehovah rebuke you." After he finished his earthly course and was resurrected, adorned with all kingdom power and glory, He had every right to not only rebuke them....that would include letting them know that they are toast.
that's horrible Gabriel! I was thinking that perhaps he offered hope to the ones who were sorry for their deeds. not hey demons I just wanted to let you know that now that I've completed my job on earth I can go stoke up your fire! but if so who am I to say anything? god is god and he doesn't play! what I would like to know is why man who was perfect got a savior and spirits who were perfect dont
Hi JIG and Gabriel: I must respectfully disagree with the assertion that Jesus' preaching to the spirits in prison amounted to him telling them that they have no hope. If that were the case, they would have already been aware of that fact. No, Jesus went there to tell them the good news of the reconciliation and that if they were repentant, that they could now be forgiven at the time of Judgement. The Watchtower has poisoned your minds with this idea that "perfect" BEINGS can't be forgiven for their sins, even if they are repentant because all perfect beings that sin are sinning against the Holy Spirit and therefore can never be forgiven. That is simply hogwash. Gabriel, I can understand how you could believe this drivel as you have been treated exactly like this, but take heart, you can be forgiven just like Adam has been and even the unfaithful angels can. If Adam has not been ransomed then neither has any of us. Remember our death sentence was due to his sin, not our own sins. Jesus ransom was "soul for soul", not soul for 10 billion souls. He gave his life as a ransom for Adam (Soul for Soul), and because Adam is ransomed, so are all of his offspring. Colossians 1:19, 20 sums it up fairly nicely I think... He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,+ so that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him,+ 20 and through him to [HR][/HR]+ by making peace through the blood+ he shed on the torture stake,* whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens. Col. 1:19, 20 In verses 15 and 16 of this same chapter Jehovah's Witnesses happily point out the fact that Jesus was the maker of all "other things" with the exception of himself. This "all other things" includes the angels in heaven, both faithful and unfaithful. So, the "all other things" in verses 19, 20 includes the angels (faithful and unfaithful). Also, do not forget that Jesus gave two souls. One, his fleshly soul that he gave during his ransom here on earth and also his angelic soul that he left in heaven when he came to earth to be human. If you don't believe me read it at Philippians chapter 2. Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus,+ 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, (as a spirit)+ gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.+ 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form (he left his angelic body in heaven)+ and became human.*+ 8 More than that, when he came as a man,* he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death,+ yes, death on a torture stake.*+ 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position+(he was not raised back to heaven merely as an angel, but to a superior position and no doubt in a different body, probably a "divine" body befitting his new standing) and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name,+ 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground+— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord+ to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2 No, Jehovah is not the type of loving God that makes people suffer in torment forever for the sins they committed during an imperfect life on earth and neither is he a God that would put a person "out of existence" for the very same infraction, but he is a God, "but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.+". If Jehovah desires that all would attain to repentance, that is what will happen. For some the repentance will come now, for many it will take a long time and a lot of discipline. But remember, God is patient. The Bible says that Jesus name means "Jehovah is Salvation". He also "is Love" and his Love never fails and neither will his ability to bring about salvation, to both mankind and to the angels. frank
sir I agree that people from the kingdom hall do have a filter. but let's not go their it just makes them mad to talk about it.... I would like to believe that jesus offered salvation by his blood and if you repent.. its horrible to think that anybody would torture his creation forever. but Satan would do it to us! but would god do that? I think the devil has a lot of people beleiveing a lie! I know the bible says that Satan and his demons will be tormented day and night forever and the wicked will have to rest day or night in torment. but that sounds like some thing the devil would do himself! to us if he could. would god do what the devil would like? I would like to believe that jesus is the savior of everyone and every creature that wants saving.. and those that seriously don't want to be beneficial and part of life. god would simply anhilate as a mercy to them and all humanity. I find it hard to believe that Jehovah or jesus would go to someone on death row to remind them hey only one more hour and I get to pull the switch! the demons at jesus time were in fear of jesus torturing them and chose to live inside pigs body rather than face gods judgement. but I think the devil has them fooled and blinded like Judas Iscariot who instead of repenting and asking forgiveness he commuted what god calls unpardonable! he said no to forgiveness and.died in his sin.
31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."-Matt21:31 These spirit creatures beheld the very presence of Jehovah. Served in his heavenly court. Tasted the very goodness of Jehovah, Yet, they turned their backs on him because they wanted to become their own God. If this doesnt qualify as sinning against the holy spirit, then nothing does. 4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God , and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is (((impossible to renew them again to repentance,))) since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.- Heb 6:4*6
Hi Gabriel: In order to ascertain whether or not an angel would have sinned against the Holy Spirit, you would first have to know whether or not they were "anointed" or not in some kind of similar fashion that humans are anointed. Because that is part of the definition of a person who has sinned against the Holy Spirit on a human level (you have to be "born again" in order to sin against the Holy Spirit). I would think that it is the same in the heavens as not all angels are of the same rank and/or order. So, simply being in heaven in Jehovah's presence does not necessarily qualify one to be "anointed" as an angelic being any more than being a son of Adam predisposes one to be "born again" in the flesh. YLT Hb 6:4-6 for it is impossible for those once enlightened, having tasted also of the heavenly gift, and partakers having became of the Holy Spirit, and did taste the good saying of God, the powers also of the coming age, and having fallen away, again to renew them to reformation, having crucified again to themselves the Son of God, and exposed to public shame. So, just as you have to be a human who has "tasted the heavenly gift" in order to be "anointed" as part of the Christ's bride and able to sin against the Holy Spirit, likely the angels have an arrangement similar that would put them in a position to be able to sin against the Holy Spirit. Just because a free moral agent sins and makes a mistake does not automatically imply that they have sinned against the Holy Spirit. Also, even if a person has sinned against the Holy Spirit, you must read the scripture carefully and fully discern what is and what is not being said. In Matthew 21 that you quoted it nowhere says that a person would "never" be able to be forgiven. No, it says quite clearly that that person will not be forgiven in this system of things (Satan's system), nor in the one to come (the 1,000 year Kingdom of God). It nowhere addresses forever sin or forever a lack of forgiveness but it puts 2 time limits on that forgiveness. These ones will not be forgiven now in this system (Satan's) and they will not be forgiven in the one to come (the 1000 year Kingdom of God). After the 1000 years forgiveness apparently will be available for those who have sinned against the Holy Spirit in this system but who have fully repented of their wrongdoing during their stay in Gehenna, which is a place of disciplining in righteousness for disembodied spirits, both angelic and human. Remember, Jehovah is a "patient" God and does not want anyone to be destroyed but wants all to attain to repentance. He will accomplish this saving work during the 1,000 year reign of Christ. While the righteous are learning how to run the Kingdom of God on earth the unrighteous will be being taught how to attain to repentance and how to live harmoniously with such a Kingdom arrangement. Make any sense? Sound better than eternal punishment or eternal destruction? I think so! You can think and believe what you want to, here is another alternative that I think is true. frank
gentleman the scripture quoted to show angels can not be forgiven because they knew god and the holy spirit are directed at those that accepted jesus sacrifice yet rejected it. but I can see how this scripture might lead one to believe that angels can not be forgiven. nor does it explain why certain disobedient angels were already in prison and not kicked out of heaven with Satan! if their is any credibility at all to the book of Enoch then the angels who took wives were sorry and tried to repent. god sentenced them to a prison planet for 10 thousand years and then to have an appearance at the judgement.. this leads me to believe that the repentant bad angels that went to prison may get restored at the judgment and some may not. why would god keep them in prison yet let Satan and his demons loose to be on earth? because Satan and the demons are not repentant so they were cut of from heaven and Jehovah's power. now they await their final judgement and can not repent because they rejected their opportunity to do their jail time before jesus reign. therefore those angels said no I will serve Satan 5 thousand years ago and rejected the plan for their salvation.. the bible says they are kept in chain under darkness reserved for judgement. at this point I'm beginning to believe that when the artifact scrolls got found the pieces of books called apocrypha were thrown out. and whoever wrote the bible filled in the pieces and used whatever seemed to match the bibles earlier books. this does not explain one little bit why the old testament says the dead are conscious of nothing. yet the new testament alludes that the power of the resurrection either places you with Abraham isac and Jacob. or were the richman in the parable was..
it seems to me that the information that the book of enoch fills in about the pre flood earth is valid and is true. Jehovah is the one who judges whether a work is wicked or righteous. Not men and their supposed ecclesiastical authority. In the book of enoch these unfaithful angels that produced the nephelim were not forgiven and their offspring were judged as not worthy of life. Not by anyone else but Jehovah the Lord of the spirits. Jehovah is the judge and he has commited His judgement to His Son Jesus so that every knee in heaven and on earth should bend to him. These already judjed ones were no longer allowed to walk amoung and influence the rest of creation - thus they are in the prison of tartarus. And as Jude was inspired to say: Jude: 11 Too bad for them, because they have gone in the path of Cain, and have rushed into the erroneous course of Ba′laam for reward, and have perished in the rebellious talk of Ko′rah! 12 These are the rocks hidden below water in YOUR love feasts while they feast with YOU, shepherds that feed themselves without fear; waterless clouds carried this way and that by winds; trees in late autumn, [but] fruitless, having died twice, having been uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea that foam up their own causes for shame; stars with no set course, for which the blackness of darkness stands reserved forever. 14 Yes, the seventh one [in line] from Adam, E′noch, prophesied also regarding them, when he said: “Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads, 15 to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they did in an ungodly way, and concerning all the shocking things that ungodly sinners spoke against him.†16 These men are murmurers, complainers about their lot in life, proceeding according to their own desires, and their mouths speak swelling things, while they are admiring personalities for the sake of [their own] benefit. Unrighteousness has already been judged and the judgement will be carried out to all who do not cooperate with the kingdom arrangement. The administration for the appointed time. Joe
There does not exist one single scripture that supports the concept of a "Repentant Angel" nor the idea of an "Angelic Salvation" Their conspiracy against mankind to rob them of their God given freedom as children of God is absolutely mind blowing. It makes one swell in rage as you take into further consideration that they allied themselves with the one called "Satan", to try and prevent the promised seed from being born as a human child by DELIBERATELY attempting to ...not just pollute the human genetic gene pool, but to DESTROY IT. So black was (and still is) their hatred against mankind that they even sought to contaminate and pollute the genetic gene pool of the earthly animal creation that Jehovah had given us our enjoyment and companionship. It wasn't enough that they alienated us from God...BUT THEY WANTED TO TAKE AWAY EVERYTHING that God had given to mankind for our enjoyment (!!!) And you speak of a goofy "Angelic Redemption"? These...-THINGS- are beyond any redemption and certainly dont deserve any. Yes, Ill go so far as to cast my own judgement against them and I wish Jehovah would have INSTANTLY OBLITERATED THEM at the moment of their rebellion. These -THINGS- dont deserve life on any plain and they are far worse than maggots that feed on decaying flesh. At least the maggot feed off of whats already dead and the organism thats dead feel no pain. But they..the ones whom I refer to as "THINGS" Feed off of the fear that they deliberately cause in humans. They get an errection when we fall outside of God's protection. They drool at the mere thought of causing us misery. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN "REPENTANT ANGEL". Angels are absolute creatures and having all facts laid out before them. They dont have to err like humans just to get a better understanding of the course they should take. But they know full well, with everything laid out before them what is Right and what is Wrong. when they move forward with their decision that decision is FINAL. There is no second guessing like us mere mortals. So yes....Jesus appeared to the "THINGS" that are locked up to let them know that he has conquered the world and that their execution will proceed as scheduled.
hey I understand how you feel no one liked what the demons did. why is Satan and his demons being sent to the abyis only to be let loose after the 1000. why not imprison him from the time if jesus! what's left to be proved?
Whether the chosen will be faithful And whether the unrighteous resurrected will choose life or Satan. Hence Satan is let loose for a little while to deceive the nations again. This is all so that the issue of sin is finally laid to rest judicially - those remaining will have chosen wisdom, life and love. Those gone will have chosen hatred and enmity. In this way, the 'meek' will take exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
well I certainly hope that no one after 6 thousand years of hell on earth and 1000 years of jesus program will turn back to sin! I sure hope that when the final test comes the human race takes one look and without a moments hesitation say no! no way! to sin.
in the gospels is a passage were moses and Elijah appear and are talking with jesus. would someone explain how they could appear alive before the resurrection? it would appear from several bible scriptures that certain people including Abraham isac and Jacob Moses and elijah are already alive. if so alive were? are we in fact living in a multidiminsion earth were the faithful righteous are resurrected to life? are we the ones dead! having only a biological life but really alive until after we die and god resurrects us? anybody???
You are referencing Matthew 17 How did Jesus describe this incident? Jesus commanded them: “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of man is raised up from the dead.†Matthew 17:9b So Jesus told them this was a 'vision', a prophetic incident showing a metaphorical reality! What would you guess Moses and Elijah represent in this prophetic vision? Interesting note: there are two witnesses coming ------- Jesus often used parables in his teaching, recall the 'rich man' and Lazarus representing the Jews and the Gentiles .. maybe there is a pattern of understanding here?
OK! yes they are the two witnesses coming. mosses represented the law the bible.witness#1 the international bible students??? Elijah represented the proving of gods name Jehovah as the one true god. witness #2 Jehovah's witnesses????? Luke 11 the sign of Jonah when Jehovah's witnesses preached about Armageddon coming many repented and Jehovah gave a repreive.. how long was that reprieve? if I'm right about it the approximate reprieve time and the country that destroyed ninevah could well point to the war of the king of the north and south and foreshadow Armageddon. soon!
now I know the new testament has 4 gospels but the works of the other apostles is recorded in different books. I'm sure they all preached the word but why no evidence of their gospels? I'm sure they all wrote similar books about jesus!