Text for Sunday, March 31st

Discussion in 'Daily Text' started by Jinnvisible, Mar 31, 2013.

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    Jinnvisible

    Jinnvisible Experienced Member

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    Sunday, March 31

    There we saw the Nephilim.
    —Num. 13:33.


    Joshua and Caleb were part of a
    group of 12 men who went into the Promised Land to spy it out.
    Upon their return, ten of those men gave a very negative and discouraging report. They even
    claimed that some of the land’s inhabitants were giants descended from the Nephilim, the offspring
    of rebel angels and women.(Gen. 6:4) Now, that claim was absurd. Those wicked hybrids
    had been wiped out in the Deluge many centuries earlier. But even the most baseless ideas can
    exert power over those weak in faith.

    The negative reports from
    those ten spies quickly spread fear and panic among the people.
    Before long, most were sure that it would be a mistake to enter the Promised Land as Jehovah
    had directed. In that volatile situation,what did Joshua and Caleb do? (Num. 13:25-32) Although
    the crowd hated to hear it, those two men told the truth and stuck to it
    —even when threatened with
    death by stoning!—Num. 14:10.


    w11
    7/15 1:4, 5
     
  2. Hi All:

    I am not doubting that 10 of the 12 "spies" that were sent out to survey the land and it's peoples for the Israelite s were lacking in faith, to the point of making a bad report back to the leaders of Israel, with the exception of Joshua and Caleb, as that is a biblical fact, at least what they reported. But Joshua and Caleb did not refute the claims of the other 10 regarding the size and strength of their enemies, they simply felt that with the power of God they could conquer even these "giant" men in battle.

    This is what they reported, "the ten", "And they kept on bringing forth to the sons of Israel a bad report of the land that they had spied out, saying: “The land, which we passed through to spy it out, is a land that eats up its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in the midst of it are men of extraordinary size.33 And there we saw the Neph′i‧lim, the sons of A′nak, who are from the Neph′i‧lim; so that we became in our own eyes like grasshoppers, and the same way we became in their eyes.â€￾ Numbers 13

    How did Joshua and Caleb reply? Did they dispute the claims of the other 10? No, they did not. Only about the final outcome of the battle did they dispute when saying...

    And Joshua the son of Nun and Ca′leb the son of Je‧phun′neh, who were of those who spied out the land, ripped their garments apart,7 and they proceeded to say this to all the assembly of the sons of Israel: “The land that we passed through to spy it out is a very, very good land.8 If Jehovah has found delight in us, then he will certainly bring us into this land and give it to us, a land that is flowing with milk and honey.9 Only against Jehovah do not rebel; and ​YOU, do not ​YOU​ fear the people of the land, for they are bread to us. Their shelter has turned away from over them, and Jehovah is with us. Do not fear them.â€￾ Numbers 14

    So, Joshua and Caleb did not dispute that the land was filled with great and many warriors, some of which were enourmous in size compared to the average Israelite man. The text implies that they (the other 10) were lying about these men, or at least grossly exaggerating, but were they? Later in biblical history there is talk of "giants" among men, Goliath and his kin were some of these. Are these tales of fanciful liars too? So what is the case? Were there some post flood people that carried at least partial "Nephilim" DNA, or were they completely wiped out by the flood as the Watchtower ascribes?

    In the NWT of the account in Genesis 6 it says that Noah was "a righteous man, faultless among his generation"..Was he faultless in that he was without sin? Of course not! So how was he "faultless". Could it be that Noah was the only one among his contemporaries that did not have tainted DNA?, and in that way was faultless? If that is the case, then the only way that "Nephilim" DNA could have survived the flood was through the women on board the ark. Perhaps Noah's wife's DNA was not pure. We do have the fact that Ham was of questionable character, and his son Canaan did something highly disrespectful of Noah or his wife after the flood. Could the DNA of one of the wives of Noah, Shem, Ham or Japheth have carried the flaw of the "Nephilim" DNA through the flood? All Satan had to do was have Noah or one of his sons unknowingly or not, marry a women with "tainted" DNA and wahlah!, you have your "giants in the land" reported by the 10 unfaithful spies. Now the Bible does not say that this is what happened. But it does not deny it either. What does the evidence say?

    So who has made the more dangerous conjecture about what is said or not said in the Bible? The Watchtower, which in today's text implies that the "Nephilim" DNA was definitely wiped out in the flood, or me, who claims that it is possible that this claim by the Watchtower may not be true? You decide. By the way, I like the daily texts, and for the most part find the commentary up-building and accurate. I am not Watchtower bashing, just saw what I thought was an inaccuracy, and thought I'd point it out. If you disagree with my assessment, feel free to comment as such!

    frank
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Dear frank,

    In my opinion, you're right. The Bethel commentator is more than likely erroneous and his comment naive. Caleb and Joshua didn't refute what the other spies said. As for the Israelites, they mustn't have called those giants by the name Nephilim because they mistakenly believed that those men were offsprings of the antediluvian giants but because that name had become synonymous of giant, mighty man. However, as written below, traditions were saying something else, which may indicate that they might have truly believed so... I'm contradicting myself here because honestly, I don't know... We can only have theories here...

    GIANT

    REPHAIM were primitive giants who lived in Canaan, Edom, Moab, and Ammon. They were also known as Emims (Deut 2:11) and Zamzummims (Deut 2:20). King Og of Bashan (Deut 3:11) was the last of these giants. His iron bed was 13 cubits long and 4 cubits wide (about 19 feet by 6 feet).

    When Moses sent 12 men to spy out the land of Canaan, they returned with the frightening report that they saw "giants" who made them feel like "grasshoppers" (Num 13:33). These giants were descendants of Anak, "a people great and tall" (Deut 9:2). This negative report by 10 of the spies caused the children of Israel to spend a night in murmuring and weeping. Only Joshua and Caleb urged the people to claim the land (Num 14:38).

    (from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)
    That's funny but there seems to be a mistake in Nelson's dictionary as demonstrated below :

    Deut 3:11
    (For only Og king of Bashan was left of the remnant of the Rephaim. Behold, his bedstead was an iron bedstead; it is in Rabbah of the sons of Ammon. Its length was nine cubits and its width four cubits by ordinary cubit.)
    NASU
    Deut 3:11
    11 (Only Og king of Bashan was left of the remnant of the Rephaites. His bed was made of iron and was more than thirteen feet long and six feet wide. It is still in Rabbah of the Ammonites.)

    (from The Holy Bible: New International Version.
    Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, by International Bible Society)


    As for the origin of their height, although I think that it was genetic (like the Massaï in Africa for example), I don't think that it was because they had some Nephilim as forefathers. If that were the case, it would indicate that men today still have that DNA in them, unless height was the unique characteristic of the presence of these genes in the cells and, in that case, said genes disappeared when Og died, but nothing in the Bible seems to back that theory, implying that we'd have degenerate DNA in us since the Deluge or whatnot. Nevertheless, biblical encyclopedias say that tradition and rabbinical tales make the Anakim (and the other giants) come from the real Nephilim but the tales are so naive in the way the account is made that they seem, in my opinion, very unlikely to be recorded according to real events. Objectively, we really can't trust the tradition and the mythological tales...
     
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