Yes, what happened in the first century CE was a shadow, a foretaste token of sort, of the things to come, which would have a greater fulfilment during the last days (John 14:12), which is also why we shouldn't be surprised that many features of what the Holy Spirit is capable of are dormant nowadays...

 

Bah bah bah

Not all the believers spoke in languages since the gifts of the Spirit were distributed as it saw fit.

 

Interesting comments

Acts 2:4

4 b-13 The miraculous event accomplished through the Holy Spirit amounts to a reversal of Babel (Genesis 11:1-9). Then God confounded the speech of people misusing their unity for sinful purposes (the English word “babble” comes directly from the Hebrew). Here God enabled people whose different languages separated them to understand each other praising God, which is the proper use of unity.

There were two reactions to what God did—as usual (Yn 7:43&N). Religious Jews (v. 5) were amazed and confused (v. 12) but open to being taught. Others (v. 13) ridiculed the talmidim.

Everyone heard them speaking in his own language (v. 6), and a representative list of Roman Empire nations is given (vv. 9-11). This corresponds closely to a Talmudic concept of how God dealt with the nations:

“Rabbi Yochanan said, ‘What is meant by the verse, “Adonai gives a word; those spreading [it] are a great army” (Psalm 68:12(11))? It means that every single word going forth from the Almighty was split into seventy languages. The school of Rabbi Ishmael taught that the verse, “[Is not my word...] like a hammer that breaks a rock into pieces?” (Jeremiah 23:29), means that just as a hammer is divided into many sparks [when it hits a rock or piece of metal], so every single word that went out from the Holy One, blessed be he, split into seventy languages.’” (Shabbat 88 b)

In rabbinic thought seventy is the traditional number of Gentile nations and the traditional number of languages of mankind. Although the number of tongues mentioned in the present passage falls short of seventy, enough are mentioned to allow the understanding that God is speaking here through Yeshua's faithful talmidim to all humanity.

But there is more. In Exodus 19:16, what the people heard was not “thunders,” as in most translations, but “voices” (Hebrew kolot). So just as from the above midrash we can learn that at Sinai God's “great voice” (Deuteronomy 5:19(22)) was divided into the seventy languages of the Gentiles, so also from the present passage we learn explicitly that at Pentecost the praises of God were similarly heard in the various Gentile languages.

Midrash Tanchuma 25 says that at Sinai the people were confused when they heard God's “voices” coming from every direction (as masterfully portrayed in Arnold Schoenberg's opera, Moses und Aron). Similarly, the people hearing the languages of the nations at Pentecost were confused, overwhelmed and amazed (vv. 5-13)—as is always the case when God appears; compare Psalm 18:7-15 and Job 38-42.

(from Jewish New Testament Commentary Copyright ©
1992 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved. Used by permission.)​

 

Ok, I took photos of it instead !

 

You keep tryin' John s.

The bottom line is, the calendar doesn't lie. The events of the upper room were just over a week before Pentecost. The churches of Christendom, of whom you speak so fondly, have it all wrong.

Your attempt to make all the disciples 'participants', but I never said they weren't 'participants'.

The HS granted them understanding in many tongues. Later through the "laying on of hands" others received gifts. All such gifts died with the Apostles. This is a fact.

Jesus only promised the outpouring to the Apostles at the Ascension. Only they were present.

Your efforts to include the 'broader church' as more than they are, by inserting phrases into Scripture at Acts 2 is worrisome.

I will add that the appointment of Matthias, as Judas' replacement took place, as the Scriptures say, "during those days" the days prior to Pentecost but not AT Pentecost. This is a proven fact. And it demonstrates that the Churches have it all wrong.

The calendar does not lie.

 

Here is Acts of the Apostles. (not Acts of a bunch of others)

NIV minus the numbering of mankind.
Additions in square brackets.

In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach, until the day when he [Jesus] was taken up, after he [Jesus] had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen.


He presented himself alive to them [Apostles] after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them [Apostles] during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God. And while staying with them [Apostles] he [Jesus] ordered them [Apostles] not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; for John baptized with water, but you [Apostles] will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”


So when they [Apostles] had come together, they [Apostles] asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them [Apostles], l“It is not for you [Apostles] to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. But you [Apostles] will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you [Apostles], and you [Apostles], will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”


And when he [Jesus] had said these things, as they [Apostles] were looking on, He [Jesus] was lifted up, and a cloud took him [Jesus] out of their sight. And while they [Apostles] were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you [Apostles] stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”


Then they [Apostles] returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away. And when they [Apostles] entered, they went up to the upper room, where they [Apostles] were staying, [Apostle] Peter and [Apostle] John and [Apostles] James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and [Apostle] Simon the Zealot and [Apostle] Judas the son of [Apostle] James. All these [Apostles] with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers


In those days [Between the Ascension and Pentecost] [Apostle] Peter stood up among the brothers [when at the Temple continually] (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said, “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.


For he [Judas] was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.” (Now this man [Judas] acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he [Judas] burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’


So one of the men who have accompanied us [Apostles] during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us [Apostles], beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us [Apostles]—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.” And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias. And they [Apostles] prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” And they [Apostles] cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.


When the day of Pentecost arrived, they [Apostles] were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they [Apostles] were sitting. And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them [Apostles] and rested on each one of them [Apostles]. And they [Apostles] were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.


Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these [Apostles] who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language?


Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” But others mocking said, “They [Listeners] are filled with new wine.”

 

Apoc,

You say, "Thank you for an excellent experience. God has blessed you with a love for His word. Never lose it. "

As you stroke Franks hair like a good little boy...

"Physician, heal yourself."

When the meeting occurred in the upper room after seeing Jesus ascend into heaven, there was quite a group : not only the 11 Apostles.

First he lists the 11 apostles, then, " "These all were persevering like-mindedly to the prayer together with women and Mary to the mother of the Jesus and together with the brothers of him." Greek from Wescott and Hort's Interlinear

So, quite a crowd, not just the eleven. Note also women...very important.

Now, during those days, a meeting of the believers, about 120 of them, met to cast lots for the replacement apostle. No doubt these included all those who hung out with the apostles: including children, or young persons, too. ...because when the spirit was poured out next at Pentecost..in the house....

"They were all together"....(Acts 2:1) .."and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance."

This is not about 12 men ...ALL the believers. Peter emphasized to the ones receiving the divine message miraculously, that the prophecy of Joel was being fulfilled; old and young, men and women, young men, and women.

So you readers here. This is not for Apoc's benefit. He knows no more how to love and read the scriptures, but has a different idea he's in love with, and will not see it any other way.

All we can do is pray his heart will become attuned someday to a repentant stage where God's spirit may open his eyes to see.

I'm sorry for you, Mr. A. But you lose, the scriptures are clear. All disciples of Christ should be born of the spirit. You are supposed to be, and anyone who follows Christ must follow his instructions,

"Unless anyone is born of the water and the spirit, he cannot see the Kingdom of God."

I will no longer argue with this one, who says he loves God's word. You all can make up your own mind.

 

Apo, you're surely right on many points, but what makes me doubt, as pointed out by John, this is the first verse of chapter 2, which says "They were ALL together." Why specify ALL if Luke continued to speak of the apostles?

Then, verse 4 says:
"and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak."
It is not said that the people heard in their own language, but that the anointed (12 or 120, whatever) were speaking.

We have the impression that some people have had the gift of languages and spoke therefore in a language which was not their own, but that further the auditors have had the mind opened to understand the speech of Peter, who spoke in his own language, a bit like a simultaneous translation.

As said above, I'm quite confused.

On the other hand, I don't think this is very important, it is just a curiosity. I do not believe that Jehovah will refuse the entry to paradise to someone who has not fully understood how events have taken place 2000 years ago.

 

Interesting comments

Acts 2:1

[They were all with one accord in one place.] It is probable that the ALL here mentioned means the one hundred and twenty spoken of Acts 1:15, who were all together at the election of Matthias. With one accord homothumadon; this word is very expressive; it signifies that all their minds, affections, desires, and wishes, were concentrated on one object, every man buying the same end in view; and, having but one desire, they had but one prayer to God, and every heart uttered it. There was no person uninterested-none unconcerned-none lukewarm; all were in earnest; and the Spirit of God came down to meet their united faith and prayer. When any assembly of God's people meet in the same spirit they may expect every blessing they need.

In one place.-Where this place was we cannot tell: it was probably in the temple, as seems to be intimated in Acts 2:46, where it is said they were daily homothumadon en too hieroo, with one accord in the temple; and as this was the third hour of the day, Acts 2:15, which was the Jewish hour of morning prayer, as the ninth hour was the hour of evening prayer, Acts 3:1, it is most probable that the temple was the place in which they were assembled.

(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database.
Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006. All rights reserved.)​

 

Acts 2:6-8

2:6-8. The Jews from Parthia would know *Aramaic; those from the Roman Empire, Greek. But many of them would also be familiar with local languages spoken in outlying areas of their cities. (Even most Palestinian Jews were functionally bilingual, as are people in many parts of the world today.)

(from IVP Bible Background Commentary: New Testament by Craig S. Keener
Copyright © 1993 by Craig S. Keener. Published by InterVarsity Press. All rights reserved.)​

 

Acts 1:13

1:13. The wealthy part of Jerusalem was the Upper City, where upper rooms were more common and more spacious. Although upper rooms in many Palestinian homes were nothing more than attics, ancient texts report gatherings of large numbers of sages in more spacious upper rooms.

The list of the names of the Twelve varies slightly in different *New Testament texts, indicating that the list had not been standardized. But business documents from the period show that it was common for people to have two identifying names, either or both of which could be used. The insertion of "brother" before Judas in the KJV is unlikely; ancient inscriptions use Greek phrases like "Judas of James" to mean "Judas son of James."

(from IVP Bible Background Commentary: New Testament by Craig S. Keener
Copyright © 1993 by Craig S. Keener. Published by InterVarsity Press. All rights reserved.)​

 

Acts 1:15

1:15. According to a Jewish tradition of uncertain date, 120 elders first passed on the law in the time of Ezra. Then again, the *Dead Sea Scrolls required one priest for every ten men, so 120 may be the number of people a team of twelve leaders could best accommodate; other disciples may not have all been present at one time. But Luke's point may be simply that the upper room is full (see comment on 1:13)

(from IVP Bible Background Commentary: New Testament by Craig S. Keener
Copyright © 1993 by Craig S. Keener. Published by InterVarsity Press. All rights reserved.)​

Acts 1:15

And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

[In the midst of the disciples] Matheetoon ; but instead of this adelphoon, brethren, is the reading of ABC, a few others, with the Coptic, AEthiopic, Armenian, and Vulgate. This seems the best reading, because of what immediately follows; for it was not among the disciples merely that he stood, but among the whole company, which amounted to one hundred and twenty. It is remarkable that this was the number which the Jews required to form a council in any city; and it is likely that in reference to this the disciples had gathered together, with themselves, the number of one hundred and twenty, chosen out of the many who had been already converted by the ministry of our Lord, the twelve disciples, and the seventy-two whom he had sent forth to preach, Luke 10:1, etc, thus they formed a complete council in presence of which the important business of electing a person in the place of Judas was to be transacted.

(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database.
Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006. All rights reserved.)​

 

Acts 2:8

And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

[How hear we every man in our own tongue] Some have supposed from this that the miracle was not so much performed on the disciples as on their hearers: imagining that, although the disciples spoke their own tongue, yet every man so understood what was spoken as if it had been spoken in the language in which he was born. Though this is by no means so likely as the opinion which states that the disciples themselves spoke all these different languages, yet the miracle is the same, howsoever it be taken; for it must require as much of the miraculous power of God to enable an Arab to understand a Galilean, as to enable a Galilean to speak Arabic. But that the gift of tongues was actually given to the apostles, we have the fullest proof; as we find particular ordinances laid down by those very apostles for the regulation of the exercise of this gift; see 1 Cor 14:1, etc.

(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database.
Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006. All rights reserved.)​

 

I've checked in my study bibles and some say that they were 120 during the Festival of Pentecost and others that they were only the group mentioned in Acts 1:13-14 (like the Osty Bible for example) or in Acts 1:26 (like the Bible du Semeur). What we know for sure is that that meeting took place a few days before the festival of Pentecost but were they gathered together as usual, whilst praying and waiting for the Spirit to be poured out, or was it a special meeting destined to elect Judas' successor ? Maybe that that episode about Judas' successor being elected was an interpolation made by Luke in order to locate on chronological grounds that event within the period of time that preceded the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and that the context of that event is foreign to what's being narrated in the surrounding verses ? Which perhaps is why the number of 120 people is specified and isn't in the surrounding verses. There's nothing that can enable us to be categorical. We know that the apostles were the main possessors of the gifts of the Spirit and that the latter ones were shared through them (Cornelius and his household excepted) and we may posit that if they were all 120 during the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and that they all had gifts, those who received later on the gifts did it only through the apostles' hands...

 

Brothers and sisters, notice:
"Then when the actual day of Pentecost came"...(another day after the 120 met to choose Matthias...that, not in an upper room...but in a house...) "they were all assembled together. Suddenly there was a sound from heaven like the rushing of a violent wind, and it filled the whole house where they were seated.The wind came, and filled the house ...and before their eyes appeared tongues like flames, which separated off and settled above the head of each one of them. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different languages as the Spirit gave them power to proclaim his message." Acts 2:1-4 Phillips

This is why Jesus told them to wait in Jerusalem ..."You have already heard me speak about this," he said, " for John used to baptize with water, but before many days are passed you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." Acts 1:5

You can read Peter's speech to the amazed crowd, and quoted from Joel2:28,29

"And after that it must occur that I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will certainly prophecy. And as for your old men, dreams they will dream. As for your young men, visions they will see. And even on the menservants and on the maidservants in those days I shall pour out my spirit."

This is the big change ; men and women, young and old were to be baptized with Jehovah's spirit, and become sons of the kingdom, receiving the adoption, and the hope of eternal life in heaven as Jesus' brothers.

This is the message of Christ, spoken throughout the 1st century, nurtured by all, and spoken of throughout Paul, Peter, and James' letters.

Amazing gifts were given to the disciples from the spirit. True, no need was there for all to speak in tongues, as it was a sign to the believers in many cases. Paul said at times, DON"T speak in tongues, as it was unneccesarysometimes.

The ability to speak in all these other languages eliminated the need to convert people of that language and later they go home and witness to their kin; it was a great miracle with a purpose; flash! and it was successful, as thousands got the point that day, and for days afterward.Thousands were baptized, received the spirit, and the Christian congregation was finally cranked up, ramped up, and running right in Jerusalem on the holy day of Pentecost, right under the noses of the evil ones that led the murder of Christ.

Many of the converts had supported Jesus' persecution and death, and these repented, and became disciples it says...directly because of this sensational miracle.

The reality of being baptized in water, and receiving God's Spirit is not confined to the 1st century however. We , today, are instructed to do the same. We must build this faith based upon Jesus' instructions, and ignore the lies that say we do not need to be baptized thus. This is the program for discipleship.

I remember long ago. Five of us Witnesses were getting ready for the ministry, sitting in Sister Georgia Godfrey's new Toyota Corolla 4-door which her husband bought her to Pioneer in. Snugly packed in, bookbags filled and at the ready, overcoats and umbrella-equipped, ..

we prayed for God's spirit upon our morning, as we all do/did. Then she, filled with Jehovah's spirit, said,...before she drove out the driveway..."I want to ask you all this question: 'Who of you would love to be anointed, and go to see Jehovah when you die.'"

Well, only one other (not me) said they would. But she wanted to go...so badly. She said she prayed for it all the time; to be anointed. I never forgot that.

Now what about you, brothers and sisters.

 

She must have run out of Prozac....

Wanting badly to die and meet Jehovah in heaven as a leitmotiv for an anointed person is the most stupid wish ever.

 

I have been keeping up with the posts on the thread.

Question: would it be at all possible to refrain from using the Bible as a means to berate others?

 

When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Sa·marʹi·a had accepted the word of God,+ they sent Peter and John to them; 15 and these went down and prayed for them to get holy spirit.+ 16 For it had not yet come upon any one of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.+ 17 Then they laid their hands on them,+ and they began to receive holy spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the spirit was given through the laying on of the hands of the apostles, he offered them money, Acts 8

 

Yes, good point, Frank.But at Pentecost it was all the believers who spoke in tongues as Peter said;

old men, young, women and young women.

I know, Utuna, you seem to misunderstand the point: Georgia wanted to see Father, and go to be with him, either at Armageddon and Christ's return...or death/resurrection.

As far as I know, she is a good and upstanding Witness today. If they (WT) weren't so envious of the anointed, they would allow me to call on my old brothers and Sisters and visit them, but as you know......

The wild beast lurks and slithers around looking for resistors to persecute and throw out of the congregation.Many would love to see me back, "in" again.

My total allegiance is to the Lord of Heaven and Earth; Jesus. Scoffing at my experiences whilst I was a JW, pioneering? Well, as Wallflower says....

You would have to work pretty hard to come up to that sister's bootstraps, my friend. And I, like Paul, too, would have had to work hard to keep up with me for the 35 years I was in the Organization....along with raising 5 kids.

 

Even though I resigned from WT, I have not resigned from magnifying Father Jehovah. And I consider what works I did while a JW were sacred service, even though I was not aiming the 'arrow of truth', God's word, correctly. I will not get 're-baptized', my vows to God and Christ I took in 1971 are the same.

Even now, I call JW's my brothers and sisters , who worship Jehovah. And I am proud of the accomplishments true-blue , 'ring a dang' (tip my hat to WF) , JW's do...the work, building programs, and preaching.

If Christ wanted, he could restore real and true worship, and cleanse WT!

And...it is possible that may happen. "All things are possible with God." Jesus said. But, until then, I try to speak the truth with my WT brothers and sisters, as a way to remind them to search the scriptures for the truth...as WT has been subverting it since Rutherford, I know for a fact.

Anyway, I would have no better wish than to waltz into my old KH's and shake hands and hug everyone. But, it doesn't appear to be good and holy spirit -filled Christians WT is endeavoring to build, but brainless automatons. I have heard more than one C.O. say

"Brothers, if the Faithful Slave tells you to jump?....only ask, "How high?" The persecution of anointed Witnesses goes on. The worship we now give Jesus, as is his deserved right, undermines their anti-gospel teaching as a 1935 180 degree u-turn from , 'The Way'. Acts 9:2...19:9, 23...22:4,...etc. , the re-birth of the Spirit.
What if they asked you to jump off a cliff? Or dump all your savings account into their bank accounts? Well they are telling you to ignore Jesus' teachings and follow the FDS's teachings about the 'GC, and you must not aspire to re-born ideas, even though this is the back-bone of the Christian teaching.

Would you blindly comply? Believing they are channeling directly to Jehovah?

(Rhetorical question.)