The 8th King is Here!

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by Joshuastone7, Aug 22, 2015.

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Oh my goodness, Jehovah has given me the ability to understand it! The 8th king is already here! I've been wrong all along about it still being future, and so has everyone I know! Let me explain;

    The seven mountains are the seven kings. Some start with Babel, others with Assyria, but then Egypt, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, then Rome is the one alive in Johns day;

    Rev 17:9,10 9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while."

    Now, the seventh king is the next element in that of the clay/iron mix of Dan 2, it is as well the small horn & fierce beast in Dan 7, and as well the second two horned beast in Rev 13. Now, the clay mixed with iron in 325 when the Catholic church joined with Rome and became the Holy Roman empire. It should also be noted that 325CE was approximately 2520 years since Jehovah confused the language at the tower of Babel. Now this 7th king was only to last a short while, look here;

    Rev 17:10 "And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while."

    So, we see in general the Roman empire lasted only a couple hundred more years to about 530CE, when it was relatively no more.

    Now, since we know the Chapters of Dan 2, 7 and Rev 13 are mirrors of each other then we have to understand it is the 7th head that is healed in the first beast of Rev 13 because Rome and the small horn exist in the time of the end. (Dan 2, 7)

    Dan 7 shows a healing or second condition of each of the three entities. Such as the lions wings are plucked out (Not as strong or quick as it was), and the heart of a man is given it, depicting the moment of the healing from the tree fall of Dan 4. Remember in that prophecy the tree is given the heart of a beast and crawls on all fours. Therefore we see the lion in Dan 7 as the healing state back to a man on two feet, and this is no doubt when Rome adopted the Catholic church in 325CE as it's state religion bringing back to life the ideas of the Tower of Babel in that of a one world religion and government 2520 years after the languages were confused. The "heart of a man", "standing as a man" the "clay of the tower" are all keys to understanding how the iron is mixed with people of the "clay", men made from clay collected by the Catholic church from all around the world, and it is these in the feet and toes of the image in Dan 2! The strong iron Rome, and the fragile Vatican city/Holy See nation!

    Next the bear with it's ribs depicting it's past conquests of Babylon, Lydia and Egypt.

    Then look at the leopard, it's four heads are those of the four generals that took over after Alexander the great died.

    Then of course that brings us to the small horn of Dan 8, that is depicting Rome coming to be from one of those four generals of the left over kingdoms of Greece.

    Then that leads us to the fourth beast of Dan 7 that is Rome as well.

    Following this example then the beasts in Rev 13 are a new moment in these entities lives. They are of course the same entities, but at a different time period. Therefore the healing of one of the heads of the first beast must be the healing of the seventh head after the fall of the Roman empire, and when did this occur? The Lateran Treaty between Italy and the Catholic church was signed in 1929, and this is the healing of the Holy Roman empire, the 7th king!!!

    Now look;

    Now Rev 17:11 "And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction."

    Since the seventh king came about in the year 325, and that 7th king fell away when Rome was no more, then that means the healing was when the Holy Roman empire once again came to be with that Lateran Treaty, and since it was the 7th king it also became the 8th just simply by being reborn! That's how it can be both the 7th and the 8th because it is the 7th reborn!

    We know from Dan 2 that Rome exists all the way down until Christs kingdom destroys it, albeit after mixing with clay. And as well we know from Dan 7 Rome survives until the end with the small horn, and in Rev 13 we have the conglomeration first beast, then the second beast is the iron/clay, fierce beast/small horn, Holy Roman empire just depicted separately, just as it is in Dan 2 and 7! The clay in in the feet and toes of Dan 2 is the reborn Gold of the head, and the small horn in Dan 7 is the reborn lion, and one of the horns on the second beast in Rev 13 is simply the reborn lion of the first beast!

    This is why there is a 2000 year gap in Dan 11! Because it took that long before the kotn finally came back around! That gap is in between Dan 11:24 and 25...

    So then, after the collapse of the western economy this 8th king will be victorious over the king of the south deep in the time of the end, well after the constant feature is removed as we read in Dan 11:40;

    Dan 11:40 “In the time of the end the king of the south will engage with him in a pushing, and against him the king of the north will storm with chariots and horsemen and many ships; and he will enter into the lands and sweep through like a flood."

    Then at that time it's simply that the 8th king will become the world dominant entity over the king of the south (Egypt/Anglo-America).

    Jehovah's word is beautiful in its complexity and accuracy!!!
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Okay I am going to take a step back just a little on one subject from the post above, the identity of the image set up by the second beast. After further consideration I noticed I allowed my personal opinion to enter with the image. Not that in the future the image wont be the UN, but I will tell you what I have noticed about this image that has made me take a more realistic look at it. The goal is to allow only the scriptures to explain themselves.

    Rev 13:14 "It misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that it was permitted to perform in the sight of the wild beast,"

    If you notice here (again as I've mentioned) the sign that causes fire from heaven is no doubt the first trumpet, for it is this entity that opens it's mouth against Gods people and it is the first trumpet that begins this occurrence.

    Rev 8:7 "The first one blew his trumpet. And there was hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was hurled to the earth;"

    Now the very next sentence in Rev 13 says this;

    Rev 13:14b "while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived."

    This could be taken as this event occurs after the fire is hurled down to earth, which may very well be the case. (Dan 11:30) However, regardless of when the image is set up, the image has nothing to do with the mark of the beast. Look what the next sentence says, does this not sound a whole lot like the disgusting thing being set up?

    Rev 13:15 "And it was permitted to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast."

    What is the reason the true worshipers are attacked in the time of the end, is it because they will refuse the worship of this image and that's why the 8th king will turn on them to physically kill them at the end of the 1290 days? This is the very lesson Daniel had been telling us all along, such as the image Neb set up that was 60 cubits by 6 cubits, when the three brothers refused to worship it they were thrown into the fire, yet Jehovah came to their rescue! These are the reports out of the north that the kotn hears about, the true worshipers of Christ refusing to worship the image.

    Dan 11:44, 45 “But reports out of the east and out of the north will disturb him, and he will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction. And he will plant his royal tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration; and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him."

    Now to my main point about this image. The mark of the beast has nothing to do with the image, look. The scripture only says that those who don't worship the image will be killed, but what does it say about the mark? Commentary in Red;

    Rev 13:16-18 "It (The image) puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. (This is the mark of the first beast with seven heads.) This is where it calls for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number, and its number is 666."

    So you see, one could receive the mark of the beast before the image is set up. The mark is associated with the name of the first beast and since we know the first beast has to be in existence before the image of it can be set up then that means one could theoretically receive the mark of the beast before the image even comes on the scene.

    Rev 13:15 says that the image causes to be killed any who don't worship the image of the beast, basically speaking of itself in the third person.

    Then the image puts under compulsion all people. What if it is this moment that the final world government is established? If the first beast in Rev 13 is both the 7th and the 8th king the moment it came back to life with the Lateran Treaty and by extension the European Union, then we obviously know that there is a future moment the kofn wins the battle, finaly in the time of the end winning over the king of the south and then setting its self up as the one world religion.

    Dan 11:40 “In the time of the end the king of the south will engage with him in a pushing, and against him the king of the north will storm with chariots and horsemen and many ships; and he will enter into the lands and sweep through like a flood."

    It is only a guess by us when we said the 8th king comes about the moment the kotn wins in the end and establishes the one world order, but that appears to not be the case. It appears the 8th king comes to life the moment the 7th king comes back to life. If the 7th king was established in 325CE and then disbanded in 530CE when Rome was no more, then the Lateran Treaty between Italy and the Holy See would be the rebirth of this 7th king, and it becomes the 8th simply by being reborn, hence coming from the 7 because it was the 7th. These two were the iron/clay, fourth beast small horn, bringing back the idea of the tower of Babel from so long ago in 325CE then in 1929...

    Now it only says that one can't buy or sell unless they have the mark of the beast, it doesn't say these ones are killed at this moment, for we know these one will be killed by Christs kingdom.

    Rev 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image and whoever receives the mark of its name."

    Notice again the worshiping of the beast and receiving the mark are spoken of separately. So therefore the mark of the beast isn't associated with being killed by the image of the beast, it only says these will not be able to buy and sell, and it is Christs kingdom that will kill these.

    However it is the ones who wont worship the image of the wild beast that are killed by the beast, and the number of it's name has nothing to do with the image, it simply is the number of the beast that must be there before the image is created because the number of the beast is never associated with the creation of the image, It's associated with the first beast and it calls it the name of the wild beast and the number of it, meaning the first wild beasts name and number in Rev 13 is 666.
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    I have been churning over the mark of the beast these last few days. After all I've figured if we knew the identity of the beast then the mark should be identifiable. I have to tell you, I have scratch paper after scratch paper trying to calculate the number of the beast, and I thought I would share where I am at, at this point.

    Well, the first thing I thought was let's go back through the Bible and see if it will explain itself. Such as the "sign" on Cain. Some have thought it to be a mark on the forehead, but regardless it doesn't lend itself to any information to the mark of the beast.

    I had even considered the teffilin with no connection there;

    [​IMG]

    There's even Eze 9 where the 6 go to the house of God and mark those who are sighing over the detestable things in the temple, but again there were no connections there.

    There are many scriptures discussing Jehovah's word to be in ones hands and forehead and many instances of gaining a mark, but nothing can be connected to the mark ones receive when worshiping the beast in Rev 13.

    I also can't tell you how many names I calculated with Greek and Hebrew using gematria (Letters calculated by numeric valuation.), and again, there's nothing there.

    So then we start back from the beginning. If I am correct and the first beast of Rev 13 is the 7th king that is healed and becomes the 8th king in 1929 with the Lateran Treaty between Italy and the Holy See, then this is the new revised Holy Roman empire and by extension the European Union, with the Vatican as the Harlot riding on top.

    Now, the lion/Babylon/Holy See is the mouthpiece of this beast, and will be the mouth piece of the denunciations coming toward Gods people yet future, so therefore this image no doubt would play a role as a whole in this Roman Catholic conglomeration.

    This image is quite likely the Latin cross itself! Think about this, let's say there are some GB member or members that believes in the trinity, or believes Jesus died on a cross and secretly has these images for worship? That would give a reason for the false worship at the headquarters and those worshiping false gods and false images.

    And this brings me to the 666. It's interesting that the symbol of the trinity is made up of these three 6's;

    [​IMG]
    As you see there this symbol incubuses three 6's, and as well this idea of a triad god goes way back to Babylon itself. So therefore the trinity is the very nature of the idea of this false way of thinking and worshiping itself.

    Now this number being a mans number can be discovered in Dan 2 & 7. The clay that mixes with the iron is the people/men, and as well the lion that is given the heart of man in Dan 7, therefore this idea of the trinity is a human creation, a human number that goes all the way back to the tower of Babel itself! The Catholic church combining with Rome was in fact the rebirth of the ideas of the tower at Babel as the one world government under one religious head worshiping a false triad god in that of the three spirits that come out of the dragon, beast, and false prophet, look!;

    Rev 16:13 "And I saw three unclean inspired expressions that looked like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the wild beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet."

    That is who they are worshiping, the beast, the dragon and the false prophet of Rev 13, that is how they receive the mark and shows they are worshiping the trinity!

    Also note the mark that the Catholic church gives their worshipers on their foreheads;


    [​IMG]

    It is interesting that the ash they use to mark their foreheads with the cross is made of carbon, also the most abundant element in the human body after oxygen, and it just so happens that carbon has 6 protons, 6 neutrons, and 6 electrons.


    [​IMG]

    Now, I believe that the mark of the beast is metaphoric as a majority, for this must be a mark that someone takes willingly knowing they are worshiping counter to what is Gods true identity. So things like our social security cards of drivers license cannot be this mark, nor could any microchip, however the scriptures in Rev 13 do lend themselves to one day this mark becoming extended to all of mankind when they will need it in order to buy and sell. This very well could be a card in fact when the one world order is set up that could have an image of a cross or a triad mark, or something the like, but it is clear now that one could still obtain this mark in their hands and on their foreheads in the same manner one can receive Gods word on their hands or foreheads, and that is by bringing it into their hearts and homes and worshiping this triad god and images from ancient Babylon in the form of the dragon, beast and false prophet that will lure them away and cause them to be destroyed by the presence of lord Christ Jesus!

    The number 6 is imperfection in the Bible, something that is just not quite finished or perfect, something from the sin of man. This is also the symbolism we see in the unfinished tower of Babel, and then adopted by the 8th king today;


    [​IMG]
     
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    Frank Conger

    Frank Conger Guest

    Hi Joshua:

    The seventh king does not become the eighth king. The verse actually says... "And the wild beast that was but is not,+ it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction." Revelation 17:11 NWT and that is precisely what it says in the interlinear translation. and (like the fourth beast of Daniel 7). It says the eighth king "comes from the seven", not the seventh. This beast comes from the seven, so try to figure out what that actually means.

    Also, can't you see that this beast is made up of the first three beasts mentioned in Daniel 7 (the lion, the bear, and the leopard) or at least "parts of those beasts", so the fourth beast of Daniel 7 is the beast of Revelation 17. We know that this is the last beast before the Kingdom because in Daniel 7 it says very clearly that....

    [SUP]7 [/SUP] “After this I kept watching in the visions of the night, and I saw a fourth beast, fearsome and terrifying and unusually strong, and it had large iron teeth. It was devouring and crushing, and what was left it trampled down with its feet.+ It was different from all the other beasts that were prior to it, and it had ten horns. (the ten kings of Revelation 13) [SUP]8 [/SUP] While I considered the horns, look! another horn, a small one,+ came up among them, and three of the first horns were plucked up from before it. And look! there were eyes like human eyes in this horn, and there was a mouth speaking arrogantly.*+ [SUP]9 [/SUP] “I kept watching until thrones were set in place and the Ancient of Days+ sat down.+ His clothing was white like snow,+ and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire.+ [SUP]10 [/SUP] A stream of fire was flowing and going out from before him.+ A thousand thousands kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.+ The Court+ took its seat, and books were opened. Daniel 7:7-10

    So, the ancient of days comes not when the lion, the bear or the leopard are in power or at least taking the lead in power politics etc. He comes when the fourth King of Daniel 7 comes to power with the 10 kings. The Bible tells us that these 10 kings will rule with the (fourth) beast, which is the same as the beast of REv. 17:1. They rule with the beast "during the last hour". The last hour of what? The last hour before the "Ancient of Days sets up his thrones. For who? For the 144,001 Kings of the Kingdom, of course.

    [SUP]12 [/SUP] “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast.[SUP]13 [/SUP] These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. [SUP]14 [/SUP] These will battle with the Lamb,+ but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings,+ the Lamb will conquer them.+ Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.â€￾+

    [SUP]44 [/SUP] “In the days of those kings (The 10 kings of all the Revelation scriptures that mentions 10 horns "with crowns" since Kings have crowns.) the God of heaven will set up a kingdom+ that will never be destroyed.+ And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people.+ It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms,+ and it alone will stand forever,+ [SUP]45 [/SUP]

    So, the stone that is cut not with hands of Daniel 2:45 does not strike the image of verse 44, it strikes the beast that comes "after" the image in Daniel 2:44 is decimated by the stone. Read it carefully and with all this information included in your thinking. The image represents "the seven" that the eighth beast comes from only the head of Gold is the third of the seven. Egypt and Assyria are not included in the "image", but they are included in the "seven" kings that have ruled over God's people before the eighth comes into existence with the "10 Kings".

    So, the image is made up of five of the "seven" that the eighth king is made from or comes from. After the image is destroyed the ten toes of the image are the only hings that end up in the eighth king from "the seven". They are "those kings" mentioned in Daniel 2:44 and end up being part of the beast of Revelation 17.

    The five Kings of the seven that are included in the image are Babylon (the head of gold), Medo Persia (which are the shoulders and arms), Greece (which is the midsection and the hips), Rome (which are the legs) and finally Anglo-America which are the feet. The stone hits the "feet" which is Anglo America, so there will be "destruction" of the image while the seventh King is still in power. Gods Kingdom destroys the eighth King, not the seventh king represented by the image. Has to be this way cause the 10 toes will become the Kings that rule with the fourth beast of Daniel and the same beast of Revelation 17. Anglo America is the seventh head of the seven headed beast, not said to have the ten horns "with diadems" or "crowns". After King 7 is given the death blow and then revives, king 7 along with the other two beasts mentioned in Daniel 7 will make up the controlling parts of the fourth beast of Daniel 7, which the Kingdom of God will destroy. The lion is Anglo America (England was the first and still is the controlling part of that beast and it's symbol on it's coat of arms is the lion, they are the brains, the U.S. is the brawn), Russia is the Bear which is easy to see, they are always portrayed as the "Russian Bear" and China is the leopard.

    The fourth beast of Daniel 7 will become the beast of Revelation 17, which comes from the seven along with the countries that will share the power on the globe with the remnant of the seventh power the Anglo-Americans. I think this will be a re-worked form of the United Nations where 10 countries of the Security Council will be the 10 kings who rule with the beast of Rev. 17 for the last hour. That would be 5 of the permanent members along with 5 more nations which will come to be a part of the new permanent Security Council. This is the manifestation of the beast of Revelation 17 and the fourth beast of Daniel 7, with the addition of the 10 Kings.

    Josh, just think hard about what I have written and meditate on it. You can disagree with it completely or maybe you could refine it and make it better. Your choice.

    Frank
     
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    Frank Conger

    Frank Conger Guest

    Hi Joshua:

    The seventh king does not become the eighth king. The verse actually says... "And the wild beast that was but is not,+ it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction." Revelation 17:11 NWT and that is precisely what it says in the interlinear translation. and (like the fourth beast of Daniel 7). It says the eighth king "comes from the seven", not the seventh. This beast comes from the seven, so try to figure out what that actually means.

    Also, can't you see that this beast is made up of the first three beasts mentioned in Daniel 7 (the lion, the bear, and the leopard) or at least "parts of those beasts", so the fourth beast of Daniel 7 is the beast of Revelation 17. We know that this is the last beast before the Kingdom because in Daniel 7 it says very clearly that....

    [SUP]7 [/SUP] “After this I kept watching in the visions of the night, and I saw a fourth beast, fearsome and terrifying and unusually strong, and it had large iron teeth. It was devouring and crushing, and what was left it trampled down with its feet.+ It was different from all the other beasts that were prior to it, and it had ten horns. (the ten kings of Revelation 13) [SUP]8 [/SUP] While I considered the horns, look! another horn, a small one,+ came up among them, and three of the first horns were plucked up from before it. And look! there were eyes like human eyes in this horn, and there was a mouth speaking arrogantly.*+ [SUP]9 [/SUP] “I kept watching until thrones were set in place and the Ancient of Days+ sat down.+ His clothing was white like snow,+ and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire.+ [SUP]10 [/SUP] A stream of fire was flowing and going out from before him.+ A thousand thousands kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.+ The Court+ took its seat, and books were opened. Daniel 7:7-10

    So, the ancient of days comes not when the lion, the bear or the leopard are in power or at least taking the lead in power politics etc. He comes when the fourth King of Daniel 7 comes to power with the 10 kings. The Bible tells us that these 10 kings will rule with the (fourth) beast, which is the same as the beast of REv. 17:1. They rule with the beast "during the last hour". The last hour of what? The last hour before the "Ancient of Days sets up his thrones. For who? For the 144,001 Kings of the Kingdom, of course.

    [SUP]12 [/SUP] “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast.[SUP]13 [/SUP] These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. [SUP]14 [/SUP] These will battle with the Lamb,+ but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings,+ the Lamb will conquer them.+ Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.â€+
    [SUP]44 [/SUP] “In the days of those kings (The 10 kings of all the Revelation scriptures that mentions 10 horns "with crowns" since Kings have crowns.) the God of heaven will set up a kingdom+ that will never be destroyed.+ And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people.+ It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms,+ and it alone will stand forever,+ [SUP]45 [/SUP]

    So, the stone that is cut not with hands of Daniel 2:45 does not strike the image of verse 44, it strikes the beast that comes "after" the image in Daniel 2:44 is decimated by the stone. Read it carefully and with all this information included in your thinking. The image represents "the seven" that the eighth beast comes from only the head of Gold is the third of the seven. Egypt and Assyria are not included in the "image", but they are included in the "seven" kings that have ruled over God's people before the eighth comes into existence with the "10 Kings".

    So, the image is made up of five of the "seven" that the eighth king is made from or comes from. After the image is destroyed the ten toes of the image are the only hings that end up in the eighth king from "the seven". They are "those kings" mentioned in Daniel 2:44 and end up being part of the beast of Revelation 17.

    The five Kings of the seven that are included in the image are Babylon (the head of gold), Medo Persia (which are the shoulders and arms), Greece (which is the midsection and the hips), Rome (which are the legs) and finally Anglo-America which are the feet. The stone hits the "feet" which is Anglo America, so there will be "destruction" of the image while the seventh King is still in power. Gods Kingdom destroys the eighth King, not the seventh king represented by the image. Has to be this way cause the 10 toes will become the Kings that rule with the fourth beast of Daniel and the same beast of Revelation 17. Anglo America is the seventh head of the seven headed beast, not said to have the ten horns "with diadems" or "crowns". After King 7 is given the death blow and then revives, king 7 along with the other two beasts mentioned in Daniel 7 will make up the controlling parts of the fourth beast of Daniel 7, which the Kingdom of God will destroy. The lion is Anglo America (England was the first and still is the controlling part of that beast and it's symbol on it's coat of arms is the lion, they are the brains, the U.S. is the brawn), Russia is the Bear which is easy to see, they are always portrayed as the "Russian Bear" and China is the leopard.

    The fourth beast of Daniel 7 will become the beast of Revelation 17, which comes from the seven along with the countries that will share the power on the globe with the remnant of the seventh power the Anglo-Americans. I think this will be a re-worked form of the United Nations where 10 countries of the Security Council will be the 10 kings who rule with the beast of Rev. 17 for the last hour. That would be 5 of the permanent members along with 5 more nations which will come to be a part of the new permanent Security Council. This is the manifestation of the beast of Revelation 17 and the fourth beast of Daniel 7, with the addition of the 10 Kings.

    Josh, just think hard about what I have written and meditate on it. You can disagree with it completely or maybe you could refine it and make it better. Your choice.

    Frank
     
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    4winds

    4winds Guest

    "It" being the "wild beast" totality "is also an eighth king".

    ===
    It is as if the WHOLE "wildbeast" is the "8th" "King". (e.g. World Government)

    Now we can examine what Bethel is saying here (WT 6/15/12):

    "The prophecies about the immense image and the wild beast confirm that the Anglo-American World Power will not be replaced by some future world power."

    Is that really true?

    So to them the 7th King will not be replaced by some future world power. Hence there will be no "8th King" World Government totality of the whole "scarlet wild beast"

    "We are living in the days of the seventh head. No more heads will appear on this beast before it is annihilated."

    But the 8th King is not a "head", it is the WHOLE WILDBEAST according to that above logic of the Bible and Frank.

    So just because "no more heads" appear, does not mean the whole wildbeast has reached full maturity of a full bodied "8th King" global government.

    So it appears Bethel is promoting the idea it is all done, as if "the end" is all that must now come:

    "The prophecies of Daniel and John have been fulfilled to the smallest detail."

    Is that really true though? No, that is a blatant LIE. (Rev2:2)

    What will happen is a final "sword stroke" on the full "7th Head" (Rev13), starts a global cycle that sends the incomplete UN into an "abyss" of inability to keep global peace, the final time, during that final global "sword stroke" coming up, to eventually "ascend" the whole "scarlet wildbeast" into full world government (Rev17:8-12; Rev11:7) with the "healing" (Rev13:3) that also comes at the end of that phase, rather than Bethel's premature end delusion.

    Bethel's modern "its the end brothers!" hype, sure looks similar to the one at 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2:

    (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2) . . .However, brothers, respecting the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we request of you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. (prematurely)

    So if one looks at the modern JW mindset at this time, they are definitely expecting the end TOO SOON.

    ===
    JWs are obviously stalled and "shaken from reason" and "overly excited" by the modern Bethel "it is simply the end of the world brothers!" modern hype, of this latest apostate bypassing subversion (yet to be fully reaveled before "the end"; 2Thess2:3-4), as seen in those above WT quotes and its bypass of more and more obvious 8th King = WHOLE "scarlet wildbeast" world government meaning, of the final world power system, the whole wildbeast world government, yet to come with the required fall of the 7th King.

    Thus stalling JW progress in prophecy, is part of this modern apostate Bethel total delusion campaign, to crash the JW org, and just tell JWs that end, is "the end", which it cannot be at this time.

    1. Bethel is concealing assured 8th King rise into world government.

    2. Bethel is concealing the true meaning of the 7th King coming downfall now brewing.

    3. Bethel is concealing the meaning of their coming downfall "trampling" that STARTS the overall final global judgment cycle. (1Pet4:17; Dan8:13-14)

    4. Bethel wants to sell 2 and 3, to JWs, well before world government and the real "the end", as if "the end" of it all.

    No wonder Bethel are also a UN NGO co-sponsor of the "new world order" (Awake! 9/8/1991) wildbeast world government final global secrecy campaign, rather than keep people and JWs up to date with modern prophecy.

    Bethel GB runs this world government cover-up prior to the final cycle coming up, of Revelation 13:3 and Revelation 17:8-12 of the future, which "heals" and "ascends" on the 7th King "fall", to "8th King" World Government as the whole 8th King GLOBAL totality of the total "scarlet wild beast" whole, well before "the end", which is just the smokescreen Bethel now promotes, prior to their downfall.

    In other words, Bethel is fully compromised. This stall beyond mere "over sight".
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    The beast in Rev 13 has 7 heads, not 8. Therefore when Rev 17 says that beast is also an 8th king it means that one of the 7 receives a healing and the entire beast turns into the 8th, because it says "It is also an 8th king.". 7 heads becoming the 8th king.

    Rev 13:1 "And it stood still on the sand of the sea. And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and on its horns ten diadems, but on its heads blasphemous names."

    Again, 7 heads, not 8;

    Rev 17:8 "and of the wild beast that is carrying her and that has the seven heads and the ten horns: The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. "

    The beast with 7 heads has a death stroke, and then that death stroke is healed with still only having 7 heads, and it is after this healed death stroke that the beast becomes the 8th king just by the healing of the death stoke.

    Rev 17:11 "And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king,"

    There is never an 8th head, it is simply the healing of the 7th that it becomes the 8th.

    You seem to have missed a few scriptural connections, I'll share them.

    What came after Rome/Iron? The next event was the mixing with clay.

    Dan 2:42 "And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile."

    Now what was the mixing with clay? The very next event in the stream of time was 325CE when Rome adopted the Catholic church as it's state religion. Keep in mind the Holy See/Vatican is actually a nation. The Vatican is a nation that joined another nation (Rome) and this is the clay mixing with iron.

    The small horn of Dan 7 is also the mixing of Rome and Catholicism;

    Dan 7:8 "While I considered the horns, look! another horn, a small one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were plucked up from before it. And look! there were eyes like human eyes in this horn, and there was a mouth speaking arrogantly."

    Now the key point with this is that this 7th king Iron/Clay isn't to stay around long as we see in Rev 17:10;

    "And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while."

    As we know Rome lasted till about 530CE, so therefore it only lasted a short while. It is this 7th head that is healed in Rev 13 when Italy and the Holy See signed the Lateran Treaty in 1929 once again bringing alive this 7th head. Then by extension was the creation of the European Union, the modern day Rome. It was this moment that the beast became the 8th king even though it only has 7 heads, because it is by 7th head healing that the beast becomes the 8th.

    I believe you are mistaken Sir, and I'll tell you why.

    The only way we can look at this is to allow the Bible to explain itself. Therefore Dan 2, Dan 7 and Rev 13 must be mirrors of each other. All five entities are represented in each chapter and all the identities are the same, we are just looking at them at different times in history.

    The first three beasts of Rev 13 are the first three from Dan 7, and as well the first three elements of Dan 2.

    The second beast in Rev 13 is the iron/clay of Dan 2, as well the fierce beast and the little horn of Dan 7, and this is the identity of the two horns of a lamb beast in Rev 13.

    What you may not have noticed is the clay in the image of Dan 2 is the head of gold being reborn, the little horn of Dan 7 is the lion being reborn, and one of the horns of the two horns like a lamb in Rev 13 is also the lions mouth of the first beast being reborn.

    The scarlet colored beast in Rev 17 is simple the first beast in Rev 13 that also includes the second beast. All 7 heads are one, Rev 13 just separates two of them out to make a point. The first beast in Rev 13 includes the second beast. The two horns of the second beast are two of the horns of the first.

    The scarlet colored beast in Rev 17 is the lion, leopard, bear, fierce beast and little horn, it is the first and second beast of Rev 13 combined.

    The Bible never says the 8th king will come into existence when the 10 kings start ruling with him, it only ever tells us the moment they give their rule to the 8th king and become part of it's rule. In fact it leaves open the possibility that the 8th king could have been alive long before, which is what the rest of the chronology of the Bible says.

    Rev 17:12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast."

    That scripture does not tell you when the 8th king comes to be, but only when the 10 rule with him, and it would be a personal interpretation to say this also was the moment the 8th king comes to be, one must not take that step from this scripture at all, because it does not say that.

    The 8th king doesn't come to existence the moment of the one world order, that is a personal interpretation that many have made including myself over the years, because I discovered that this as well is not supported by fact. In fact the moment the one world order comes about is the moment the 10 kings give their power to the 8th and that's just a few scriptures later at Rev 17:13;

    "These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast."

    This is the moment the one world order comes about, and this is well after the healed death stroke.

    Therefore what I'm saying is the 7th king becomes the 8th king once it's healed in 1929, then this 8th king will become the one world order when the 10 kings give their power to it.

    Brother, your adding more to the prophecy then is there. What your doing is to say "it's missing something, and here's why". When in fact the prophecy is whole and complete. The stone does in fact crush the iron/clay mix, the 7th king, period.

    Dan 2:34 "You looked on until a stone was cut out, not by hands, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of clay and crushed them."

    It's the healing of the 7th head that brings back the 7th king of iron and clay that goes on to destruction in the time of the end. The prophecies of Dan 2, the prophecies of Dan 7 and Rev 13 all clearly shoe Rome surviving till Gods kingdom comes and will be crushed by it. It's just that it went down and came back, and that is how we get the 7th king becoming the 8th by it's healing and how the 7th can be crushed by Gods kingdom because the 7th is the 8th when it comes from the beast. The 8th king is both the 7th and 8th at the same time after it comes from the abyss.

    Neither here nor there, your interpretation relies on Dan 2 missing something, when in fact the scriptures clearly say the stone hits the feet made up of the iron and clay/fierce beast/little horn.

    I use to think exactly that way as well Frank, I thought that Anglo-America was the 7th king, until I realized that was a personal interpretation.

    The small horn in Dan 7 that causes 3 others to fall was the nation of the Holy See that caused the absolutely destruction of the Heruli's, the Vandal's and the Ostrogoth's. These were the three horns that fell from before the little horn nation of the Holy See.

    So therefore it was the moment the Holy See became a nation and joined itself to Rome that the 7th king came to be and by extension it was the Lateran Treaty in 1929 between Italy and the Holy See that brought back that 7th king to life becoming the 8th king.
     
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    Frank Conger

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    Hi Joshua:

    I never said or implied that the beast of Rev. 17 or 13 would have eight heads. It is a whole new beast, but is made up of the conglomeration of the others. Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't do that to you.

    Frank
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I never said you did say that, I was making a point.

    I read what you wrote, what you said in fact was the Rev 17 beast was the second beast of Rev 13.

    I didn't misunderstand what you were saying. I was simply pointing out that the 7th head simply becomes the 8th by it's healed death stroke.

    Did I ever say you said that any beast had 8 heads?
     
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    Frank Conger

    Frank Conger Guest

    I like how you are always commenting that others, including myself are adding personal interpretation to the scriptures when explaining God's Word. But you, you are only allowing God's Word to speak for itself. Please stop doing that Joshua, it's arrogant and unbecoming. You can have a difference of opinion without always having to insult others with your arrogance.

    Frank
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Perhaps you missed the part of my post I claimed that even I myself have let personal interpretations guide me?

    I happen to think this is the key to understanding prophecy, to constantly recognize and rid ones understandings that are clearly personal interpretations.

    I believe I clearly stated several times in that post that I had let my personal interpretation get in the way and hence adjusted my thinking.

    How can one be putting others down by claiming their interpretations are personal when I claimed my own ideas had also been personal, was I putting myself down as well?
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Friends and brothers, undoubtedly you're both right in ways and both wrong in ways!

    The prophecies will only be fully understood after they happen, or perhaps while they are happening.

    So better to be at peace with each other :eek:

    -------

    But this idea of "personal interpretation" should be discussed.

    In 2 Peter 1:20, Peter isn't saying don't "have a personal interpretation of the prophecies"

    He's saying "only scripture is prophetic" and came about by God's spirit.

    Anything outside of scripture is nonsense or demonically inspired.


    Having a "personal" interpretation of the Bible's prophecies is GOOD; it means you are pondering God's word and taking it seriously.

    Injecting, for example, Nostradamus into the prophetic schema is BAD -- this is what Peter was referencing.

    That is why he said:

    "For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

    - 2 Peter 1:21

    The "false prophets" in Israel weren't interpreting God's word and making a prophecy, they were directly prophesying AGAINST God's word, and rejecting the warnings. Hence, they were CREATING prophecy by their "private" exposition.

    -------

    From what I take is Joshua's understanding of this warning we better stop talking prophecy!

    [love you bro, but i have to disagree with your understanding of 1 Peter 1:20]

    Because it's all "personal", it doesn't matter how much you "let the Bible speak for itself". Therefore, Peter wasn't warning about our interpretation of what the Holy Spirit already created. Read 1 Peter 1:19-21 in an interlinear.
     
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    Frank Conger

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    Hi Joshua:

    Quite honestly I don't recall you ever saying that. You may have, but what stands out in my mind is that you always state that others put their personal interpretations in their explanation of scripture but that you always just let the scriptures speak for themselves. If I have made an error on this I apologize. That being said, you saying once or twice that you have put your own personal interpretation on a scripture doesn't erase the many times you warn others of doing that.

    I put my own interpretation of every scripture I read. That's all I can do. That is not wrong. I am not claiming to be a prophet from God, speaking in Jehovah's name and I am not saying you are saying that either. This letting the scriptures explain themselves is fine, but ALLL of us place our own interpretation on scripture, unless we are directly inspired by Jehovah or his Holy Spirit to do so. I am not claiming that, are you? Hear is my interpretation of Daniel 2 and how it harmonizes with Daniel 7. You, nor anyone else have to agree with me and I will not take offense. This is what I believe the scriptures are saying. The vatican is not the fourth beast of Daniel 7 and she is not any part of the image (save her influence on them). The Vatican is however "riding the beast" and effecting or affecting (I never can tell which one of those I should choose). She will not be riding for long. She has been riding it officially since about 1964 when she was made a permanent "observer or member" without voting rights. That's why you see the beast in revelation with a rider and without one. Before 1964 was the beast without a rider and after 1964 is the beast with a rider.

    [SUP]44 [/SUP] “In the days of those kings [this is not talking about the image, for the image did not have multiple kings alive at the same “time†(only one at a time (even if they were dual powers or quatro powers they were seen as one king), it is talking about in the days of the 10 kings, or however many they become after another pops up and humiliates the three] the God of heaven will set up a kingdom+ that will never be destroyed.+ And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people.+ It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, [ 10 kingdoms of the 10 kings or 7 kingdoms of the seven kings or however many kingdoms there are, I think there will be 10, not the image which was represented by a dual king (singular, not kings) ] + and it alone will stand forever, [ as portrayed in Daniel 7]+ [SUP]45 [/SUP] just as you saw that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the clay, the silver, and the gold.+ [This verse is talking about the “crushing of the image. It doesn’t say that God’s Kingdom is the stone or that God’s Kingdom crushed the image, cause that happens after the 10 kings come to power when God’s Kingdom crushes the fourth beast of Daniel 7, not the image in Daniel 2] [Jehovah is saying in essence in this scripture, “remember when the stone crushed the image, that is how thoroughly I will crush the fourth beast with the 10 horns (kings) as I prophesied in Daniel 7] [now I know that he didn’t actually say these words Joshua but that is what that verse means] The Grand God has made known to the king [Nebuchadnezzar] what will happen in the future.+ The dream is true, [whole dream, not just verse 44] and its interpretation is trustworthy.â€

    It is the case that the Watchtower and everyone else who reads this verse “reads into it†that God’s Kingdom is the stone cut out of the mountain [of God's Kngdom] when the verse never ever says that. The Holy Spirit will allow you to believe it says that, but it never does.

    Rather, quite clearly as brought out in Daniel 7, God conquers or “crushes completely†the fourth beast of Daniel 7, which beast comes to power after the image is destroyed by the “stone not cut by handsâ€. Now, who or what is the “stoneâ€? It does not ever say in the scriptures that the stone is God’s Kingdom as that is squarely an inference. Unless you read the verses there very carefully it is an easy inference to make, I agree. But, it is not correct. God’s Kingdom does not destroy the image, the “stone†does.

    We know that mountains in the Bible are or represent Kingdoms or Administrations over the people. The “stone†was cut out of “an administration†or a Kingdom “without handsâ€, which means not by “human handsâ€. It doesn’t actually say though that these who cut out the stone have to be Jehovah or Jesus or Angels commissioned by Jehovah and Jesus. What is precluding the “demons and Satan†from cutting this stone out of the current administration of mankind and using it to bring down the image of Daniel 2 in order for it to establish a government or administration or Kingdom of it’s own over the entire earth? Remember, when this stone crushes the image it soon engulfs the whole earth. [we have not seen that happen yet, but we soon will] God’s Kingdom does not do that [take over the whole earth] until after it destroys the fourth beast of Daniel 7.

    There will be an act perpetrated by Satan and his demons (not by hands) that will simultaneously strike the image at its feet, (Anglo-America) who are clearly running the politics of this planet as of right now. Russia and China are also exercising much influence As Daniel 7 tells us, but clearly Anglo-America is officially driving the ship. Something is going to happen that will “destroy†the image by striking a death blow (or apparent death blow) to the Anglo-Americans. I am pretty sure that they will be in on the “strike or feigned death blowâ€.

    Whenever this will happen, it will be an inside job. Satan and the Demons, who are already in power in every government on earth (through their influence over Anglo America and Russia and China etc.) are going to trade in the nation state concept of worldly power influence for real world dominance. The demons along with Satan are the (not with hands) that cut a stone (plan to destroy the image) out of the mountain of the sovereignty that they already possess and this domination will be over the entire planet. When that happens, THEN, and only THEN [the fourth beast of Daniel is the one that will trample the whole earth] will God step in and destroy Satan and his demons as Daniel 7 prophesies.

    “I kept watching until thrones were set in place [thrones of God’s Kingdom] and the Ancient of Days+ sat down.+ [After the fourth beast of Daniel 7 has come to power] His clothing was white like snow,+ and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire.+ [SUP]10 [/SUP] A stream of fire was flowing and going out from before him.+ A thousand thousands kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.+ The Court+ took its seat, and books were opened. [SUP]11 [/SUP] “I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant* words that the horn was speaking;+ [the horn that is ruling with the fourth beast along with 7 or 10 other kings] I watched until the [fourth] beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire. [SUP]12 [/SUP] But as for the rest of the beasts,+ [lion, bear, leopard of Daniel 7] their rulerships were taken away, [they no longer exercise any political influence over the earth or the fourth beast which has been destroyed by God’s Kingdom] and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season. Daniel 7:9-12

    God’s Kingdom does NOT destroy the image. That is done by Satan and his demon angels. They are tired of piece meal rulership of separate nation states. After they set up the fourth beast (which I think will be some manifestation of a “re-worked†U.N. with 10 permanent members of the security-council, including the Anglo-Americans [which will appear to be fully healed], the Russians and the Chinese still on that ruling council along with the others of the 7 or 10 of Daniel 7. That is how I think the Bible explains the seventh will become the eighth.

    Frank
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    True that...
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    I admire your desire to keep it real though :)

    But think about it:

    If we don't inject "personal" reasoning into the prophecies, how can we say Rome is the 4th beast?

    [for example]
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Dan 2:44, "In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever, just as you saw that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the clay, the silver, and the gold. The Grand God has made known to the king what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is trustworthy.â€

    Dan 2:35 "At that time the iron, the clay, the copper, the silver, and the gold were, all together, crushed and became like the chaff from the summer threshing floor, and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a large mountain, and it filled the whole earth."
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Agreed Joshua, I see no other options:

    The rock-from-space kingdom stands forever, and is God's kingdom.

    Going through Frank's post more thoroughly later, I like you're Anglo-America framework Frank, it makes a lot of sense.
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Very true brother...

    Luke 8:17 "For there is nothing hidden that will not become manifest, nor anything carefully concealed that will never become known and not come out in the open."

    I guess included in that are Jehovah's prophets who do know ahead of time the hidden and concealed, they one day will be revealed as well, but I would respectfully have to disagree with you on one detail brother, someone on this planet will have to know what will happen ahead of time, it's only the "many" or majority that will have their eyes opened by those Jehovah has called to uncover these things, IMO.

    Amos 3:7 "For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets."

    As well all love my dear brother...
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    You're probably right - Jeremiah, Isaiah, Daniel (with the 70 years) are examples of that.

    A reason to keep searching ;) Your EU posts were great, might be part of it!
     
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    Frank Conger

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    Hi SingleCell:

    This scripture is not saying that we cannot of should not personally interpret scriptures in the Bible. It is saying that the prophecies were not written by the personal interpretation of the writers of that prophecy, they were born along by Holy Spirit when they penned prophecy. They did not write in down in their choice of words, they used the words the Holy Spirit inspired them to write. Every one that reads the Bible reads it an interprets it themselves or they leave the interpretation to someone else they trust. That is until fulfillment when interpretation is no longer necessary. Also, I have no animosity for Joshua and I think we are both at peace with each other, we just have different opinions which is good, it keeps us thinking.

    Frank
     

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