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Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by wallflower, Mar 5, 2016.

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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    Establishing and maintaining the forum requires time, effort and expense. I would like to see a respectful attitude being shown to the administrators of the forum, in recognition of this fact.

    The forum has been set up in order to assist brothers and sisters who have issues and are in need of encouragement. It is also a means of strengthening the faith of brothers and sisters.

    It is also the goal to have a peaceful atmosphere on the forum - it should be possible to have Biblical discussions in a civil manner.
     
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Amen Sister,
    In the forum format we have time to think before we respond - how awsome is that - so no need to let anger or contentiousness to be a part of our reply.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Thank you admins - I know you don't like cracking the whip on anyone.

    So thank you for doing it over the years to maintain this place :)
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    Going to state this again. This is the sort of atmosphere I'm looking to promote on the forum. It would nice to see folk on here use their intelligence and knowledge to focus on positive subjects and focus on strengthening the faith of the brothers and sisters. Or write something that has intellectual or prophetic substance. The chant of "you gotta leave the WT" becomes old after a while. Surely there are other subjects to write about. (I don't really have the gift of writing but I can see that others do. Why don't they use those gifts to build the faith of others?)

    It would be possible for me to hammer the forum with threads about the WT study articles each week. The "loaded" language used in the articles stands out to me, from a psychological angle. (I post about an article if I think that is of significance.) I can analyze them easily.

    But I prefer to keep a positive and encouraging focus with the forum. I like to use balance.

    Yes, it is common knowledge among the forum members that the WT will collapse and not be restored. So how will the brothers/sisters be helped to understand that? And how will their faith be strengthened? That's the focus.
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    Forum members are to treat each other in a respectful manner. This is a two way process. Those who do not attend the Hall are to speak respectfully to those who still attend.

    Those who attend the Hall are to speak respectfully to those who do not attend.

    This is a two way process. That sentence means that it is not a one-sided process.

    The Bible is not to be used as a weapon for berating other members of the forum. It is God's Word and will be respected as such, on this forum. It will be regarded as a book of truth, on this forum.

    The Scriptures contained within the Bible will be used to assist others and to build their faith and to strengthen their faith.

    Also, it should be possible to discuss the corruption within the Watchtower Society in a calm, factual manner. (Throughout the thread about "Interesting Developments In Australia," not once has it ever been necessary for me to blow a "head gasket" in order to get a point across. I don't need to - the facts speak for themselves. And I'm a "loose cannon" by nature.)
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    So, Wallflower,

    Being a professional counselor and all...as you are stating your stock in trade,how does one calmly discuss this with discouraged JW Sheep...

    You say (and evidently, I count 4 others here who agree)

    "Yes, it is common knowledge among the forum members that the WT will collapse and not be restored. So how will the brothers/sisters be helped to understand that? And how will their faith be strengthened? That's the focus."

    such as Apocalypse, Daz, and other new ones coming here just recently?

    I mean, aren't they saying the same thing, but getting out of it as it clearly becomes a subset/part of Babylon, seeing as God tears it apart and burns it down at the end because of it's hypocrisy.

    You moderators make little sense to me. I would holler loudly to warn a dumb guy standing next to a falling tree; "Timberrrr!"

    I'm sorry, the advice you are NOT giving these JW's doesn't sound wise nor scriptural to me.

    Could you explain the wisdom in disobeying Rev. 18:4,5...(of course in a controlled and unheated manner)

    This would certainly be an eye-opener to me...but maybe, since you disagree with my views..then to the new ones who come here at least.
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    And Joshua,

    You deleted my web address, yet again...censoring a scripturally based site where Witnesses and ex-Witnesses post with every form of advice, fact, and speculation is permitted, even criticism of WT, and exposure of the stock-market and relations with supra-national financial banking and business connections.

    Why hide this?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    We have faith in God.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    For the same reason we won't promote hate here.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    The Watchtower is not part of Babylon, far from it, they contain the courtyard of God.
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    Brother, I believe you should rethink what is the 'courtyard of God'. You keep saying this.

    The standing position of every person on this earth, no matter what religion, or race is death.

    The way to get into God's temple is easy. It is NOT becoming a Jehovah's Witness.

    "See, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world."John 1:29

    "The light is shining in the darkness" John 1:5

    "I am the way and the truth and the life." John 14:6

    "However, as many as did receive him, to them he gave authority to become God's children, because they were exercising faith in his name; and they were born not from blood or from a fleshly will or from man's will, but from God." John 1:12,13

    John 3:16 "...so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

    Jehovah's Witnesses claim they have cornered the market on Jesus' ransom. It is theirs alone to dole out as their GB pleases.

    Billions of people are going to put faith in the ransom at the end possibly, whether they follow Christ or not, will be the issue. ("Even the demons believe, yet they shudder...")

    You can believe this, as you want. Scripturally proving it to the world was an absolute failure , and we tried. It only resulted in a lot of very ill will toward us.

    Have you re-read the book of John? I wonder . If a JW, who still believes that JW's alone are the only ones offering acceptable faithful worship in God's faith-temple.....something is still reining their mind away from Jesus' teachings. He says ALL those putting faith in me...not one little teeny-tiny, smug, ....and really, a religion not following Jesus at all.
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    In the same manner that I heard TATT - I remember the moment clearly. Over a cup of tea and in a calm, measured voice, I was asked if I knew that Jehovah's Witnesses had joined the UN as an NGO. That piece of information floored me.

    Some of my relatives are "drama queens." In my previous job, I worked for a corporate company. So I ended up sitting at countless business meetings - and listened to many drama queens over that time. For some reason, I noticed that the drama queens seem to share the belief that if they could SHOUT louder than everyone else, than that would automatically make them right.

    I don't subscribe to that point of view. I don't believe that I have to rely on sensationalism to get the point across. I just have to present the facts.

    It's not my role to play Moses and Jehovah has not given me that role either. Personally, I think that Jehovah will make it obvious when the time arrives to get out. The sheep will listen to the shepherd when he speaks.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    It's quite simple John...

    The way to the courtyard is through the gate. I'm sure you know all about the tabernacle right? After all, we are talking about the courtyard, the holy place, the most holy within the temple sanctuary itself. So surely you know how to get to the courtyard right?

    So what does the gate represent? Jesus of course... How do you get through the gate, and what does the white linen surrounding the courtyard mean John? The ones within the courtyard have cleansed themselves from the blood of the alter in the courtyard, right?

    Now here comes the punch line........ How is one forgiven of their sins and allowed to enter the courtyard through Christ, is it by believing Christ is a trinity?

    Now 1+1=2
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Eph 1:17-18 - NLT
    "asking God, the glorious Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, to give you spiritual wisdom and insight so that you might grow in your knowledge of God. I pray that your hearts will be flooded with light so that you can understand the confident hope he has given to those he called—his holy people who are his rich and glorious inheritance"

    Eph 1:17-19 - ESV
    "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,"

    How can those who believe in the trinity be "anointed" and have a good understanding of the hope to which they are called if God hasn't even enabled them to know His real nature ? How can anyone say that they are anointed and later say that they'll accept whatever hope God will call them to ?

    Just like the WT study said last weekend, when someone is anointed, they know it, as strongly as they know what their name is and they know that their destiny is in heaven.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Exactly... One of the most fundamental understandings of scripture... This is why JW's are Gods people and make up his courtyard, because they (as a group) understand and worship the true God of the ancient Jews, and no other group on earth does...

    Anyone who harps on about the good within Christendom churches are supporting Babylonian belief structures containing demon worship.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Quick addendum - we (who agree with what you just stated) ARE NOT suggesting that there aren't real Christians in Christendom.

    This has NOTHING to do with eternal judgment, who is acceptable to Jehovah, etc; it's a question of Samaritan vs Jew vs Ammorite.

    False doctrine does invalidate the truth; false prophecy, worship of men, etc, these are traps of the spirit, not invalidators of truth.

    (I realize we could debate that, plenty of nuance)

    "Doctrines of demons" which I would sum up as the Roman delusion of trinity, hell, dominion-ism, eternal soul, and justification by works, that corrupts much of what follows. And this lies squarely on the church hierarchy, not it's adherents.

    Upon investigation, I've found that the trinity is the primary delusion blocking Christendom from accepting what Jesus plainly stated; it creates a mental gap between the reader the scriptures.

    (watch the James White vs. Jehovah's WItness debate on youtube .. that is a demonstration of the contrast between JWs and Christendom - the daughters of Rome are almost comically ... well, blocked ... from understanding the NT)

    And because of that "block" they seem to stop at "just believe" and then go on to be worse than the world with war, judgment and greed.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Absolutely, within the world are many who inherently understand the true nature of God, without even knowing such knowledge violates their own churches doctrine.

    We have history and the entire Bible to understand what is required to be Gods people. All we need to do is look at the Jewish history. How many times did they fall short of doing Jehovah's will? Through false worship, false prophecies, murders of prophets, and on and on... What was the one thing that made them Gods people? They understood the nature of the true God. Without that one piece of the puzzle, your not even in the game, it is the game, it is the everything.

    Jesus could not have made it anymore clear then his words at Jhn 17:3 "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." This is what is required of Jehovah's favor, forgiveness, eternal life! To understand the true nature of Jehovah and of his son. This is the reason the Jew's lost Jehovah's favor, because they rejected the son.

    Disclaimer: As you know my dear brother, my frustration is to those who fail to understand this simplest of scriptural understandings, yet claim intimate knowledge of him. You just provided the canvas...lol
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    "Absolutely, within the world are many who inherently understand the true nature of God, without even knowing such knowledge violates their own churches doctrine."

    You, yourself, said it.
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    Have a good Memorial supper all. I'm sure we can dissect this very important subject after we have a meeting with Father and Son, and pray for love and wisdom to act and speak truth to one another.

    Thanks for responding.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Yes indeed! So now we have clarified that this is not about judgment.

    And can move onto the prophetic concept of the courtyard in relation to the Israel of God :)

    The courtyard which will be trampled on by the nations for a witness to the world, which seems to be a small group of people who won't get shaky because they are "knowing their God". What I find so interesting looking over the last century and it's preliminary "global" wars, is the unique group called Jehovah's Witnesses, tarred and feathered, killed alongside Jews, refusing to bow to the nation-states.

    For now, this forces me into the JW framework; couple that up with the prophesied false prophesy and it seems to fit.

    [but the courtyard could absolutely be all professing Christians ... it's one of a few frameworks we've bantered about over the years!]

    So we'll see.
     
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