2 Timothy 3:16All Scripture is inspired of God...

The only time that was true was when it was originally written; since then down to our time we can be certain that all has not been translated correctly.

That said, I lean to saying that it is indeed also referring to “a half timeâ€￾. I say this based on the numerous times 3 ½ years are referred to. In this case, this would be the only place where a time is given that is inconsistent with other given times. Not just 3 ½ years times, but others that are consistent with one another.

I say the writers after left it off, and even if not and it was Daniel himself, I don’t see that one would conclude that his half was not referring to half of an appointed time.

There are a number of translations that agree:

http://bible.cc/daniel/12-7.htm

I know that this does not make it so, but I guess we won’t know for sure until that book is unsealed. Maybe you are on to something.

Joshua,

Any reply to post #72 and also in line with Frank’s question (What is the constant feature of the Watchtower), where do you get that the U.N. will make an announcement in the news about the WTS?

 

Hi Joshua:

I guess that makes some sense if you believe that the "constant feature" has not been removed yet. But you don't know what the constant feature of the Watchtower is? If that is true, which I believe, because you just said so in your last remark, it leads me to my next question. How will you know that the constant feature is removed and that the 1290 days have started if you don't have any idea what it is? Does that question make sense? And how will you know why it was removed, so you can avoid that type of behavior yourself in the future? Your brother,

frank

 

Hi John:

I appreciate that there is nothing that either of us can say that can assure that the copyists did not make a copy mistake here and there. But, with that said, do you not think that Almighty God could see that such an important scripture as this was copied correctly throughout time so that a proper message could be un-sealed in the "time" of the end. Do you think that word "time" actually means 1 time? If so, When does that 1 time start? Has it started yet? If so, we should have the proper understanding already. If that "time" of the end has not started yet, then perhaps Daniel is still sealed up. As to all the other translations saying 3.5 times, they love to play follow the leader and if that copying has been done correctly, which I think it has, then they are all adding to God's Word. Young's Literal Translation says..."after a time, times and a half". It could be that I am wrong, it would not be the first or last time that would happen, but I am at least glad to see you admit that "I might be on to something". Thanks for the open mindedness. Pray on it, meditate on it and if you change your mind I'd love to hear about it.

frank

 

Ok that answers Frank’s question, but any reply to post #72 and where do you get that the U.N. will make an announcement in the news about the WTS and that will be what starts the 2300 days?

 

Hi John:

Think about this question from a different angle. The jews "were" God's people and therefore they had a constant feature at the temple each day and each night without fail. When did this constant feature finally end? Not in the time of the Maccabees but during or after Jesus life here on earth. Did Jehovah stop recognizing the Jews as "his people" and therefore the "constant feature" as an acceptable offering when Jesus fulfilled the law by dying on the stake in sacrifice? Or was it in 70 CE when the temple was raised to the ground? My bet is that it ended having God's approval as an acceptable sacrifice and that the Jews were no longer viewed as "his people" after Christ's sacrifice. If you agree then you would also agree that just because the Jews continued to offer up the constant offering morning and evening after Nisan 14, 33 CE it failed to have any significance. Therefore, just because they were continuing something that at one time was "an acceptable offering", but was no more, that they also no longer had Jehovah God's blessing as "his people" after that time, no matter how many times they made that offering.

So, in applying this to Jehovah's Witnesses. Just because they continue to place Watchtowers and Awakes in the field ministry is not necessarily an valid indication that their constant feature continues to be accepted by Jehovah God any more than the constant feature of the Jews was no longer accepted after Nisan 14, 33 CE, even though they continued this practice up till the time of the temple's destruction in 70 CE. Does that make sense? So how do you know that Jehovah God is still blessing Jehovah Witnesses? They are as an organization unrepentant sinners, are they not? Have you ever seen or heard of a public display of repentance over the U.N. NGO debacle when they advertised, advertised, advertised for the U.N. through the pages of those same Watchtowers and Awakes for about 10 years at least? Jesus even admonished them to repent in Revelation 2 when he said to the angel of Thyatira these words...

"20“‘Nevertheless, I do hold [this] against you, that you tolerate that woman Jez′e‧bel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and misleads my slaves to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed to idols.21And I gave her time to repent, but she is not willing to repent of her fornication.22Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.23And her children I will kill with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am he who searches the kidneys and hearts, and I will give to ​YOU​ individually according to ​YOUR​ deeds."

Yes, Jesus waited for 12+ long years waiting and waiting for them to repent of this wickedness. The organization that once proved to be the collecting vessel for the first new covenant anointed ones was now too proud to accept that they made a heinous mistake and needed to repent, but instead went into "cover-up mode" that continues until this day. Never have they admitted 1 spec of error. Jezebel could never admit her mistake. Even the big trees of Mamre could make mistakes, even heinous ones. That is not why they lost their constant feature. It is because they were too proud to repent, after all they were the "faithful and discrete slave", were they not? They were, but are no more.

I know that this is hard to read, but that does not make it any less correct. I was as stunned as many of you were when I found out about this fornication and idolatry that I was party to. I had pioneered with my wife a couple of those U.N. years, and placed my share of Watchtowers and Awakes to the public that with a double tongue extolled the virtues of the U.N. and out of the other side of thier mouths and very competently blasted them in the same article. If you were a witness you probably focused like I did on the blasting, but if you were the general public, the magazines were so slyly written that you would think they were actually giving praise to Satan's beast.

I do not have evidence to back this up, I admit it is conjecture, but I think September 1, 2004 which is the first day of the Watchtower no longer having a constant feature was because they began at that time to accept non-anointed members of Jehovah's Witnesses to act as "priests" at bethel, acting like they were anointed and even later partaking to finish off the facade. They continue to this day practicing this deception and still have not even hinted at any repentence for thier act of fornication and idolatry with the U.N. What say you? By the way September 1, 2004 is exactly 4600 solar days from January 28, 1992. 2300 morning constant features, 2300 evening constant features, a constant feature for a day. How about that! Your brother,

frank

 

Hi Joshua:

I have read Robert King's book, most chapters I have read multiple times. He has some very nice insights but like most is not correct on every subject no matter how much he thinks he is. He is an expert on the U.N. folly of the Watchtower, I will absolutely give him that. Since you recognize the errors of the society "for many years" do you agree that Jesus also recognized these same mistakes and through the pages of the Bible has attempted to give them correction so that they would repent? I surely wish that they would, but I fear that that ship has already sailed and that they are hardened in thier sin. Joshua, do you see any repentence on thier part? Have they ever even made a statement suggesting that they could have made even a minor error in this regard? Cause if you have, I would like to know. All I have ever seen is that they blame it on opposers and apostates who have made up stories about them. They know that is not true. They know they were a U.N. NGO officially from January 28, 1992 and who knows how long "un-officially". So each time they deny, or blame the whole thing on opposers they are compounding their error. It is no different than when the first century congregation became apostate and turned into the Catholic Church. Jesus no doubt tried to correct them as well, and we know how that turned out. No amount of pioneering and giving talks in the Ministry School or from the platform on Sunday's or at Assemblies can erase a ten plus year affair with a mistress, only true repentance can. Do you see true repentance. If you don't Jehovah God and Jesus do not either. If they remain unrepentant they can never have God's approval again, for all time. Only true repentance will change that Joshua. Don't be an apoligist forever. Your brother,

frank

 

Sorry Frank,

I don’t have a reply because the U.N. NGO thing is a non issue for me.

Joshua,

Thanks for your reply in regards to

Now how about post #72?

Diagonal,

Where are you?

 

Hi John:

How could that possibly be a non issue? Please explain, even if you are brief.

frank

 

Joshua,

yes, you are right, both Satan and Adam were morally and spiritually perfect,
and had absolute free will over their decision to obey God or not, and as a result
had total responsibility for the consequences affecting THEM, and them ALONE,

because this is where we need to look at the bigger picture and the effect that
their wrong decisions had on OTHERS.

That is also why self-harm in most societies is not considered a criminal offence,
because it affects no one but the person doing harm to himself,
whereas if his actions would in any way impact on others in an injurious way,
he would be committing an offence.

So God is perfectly righteous in punishing Adam and Satan with the full and
unmitigated punishment due for their transgression, whereas condemning us
for being born in sin despite our hatred of it is not righteous.

Hence, the whole issue is about God’s righteousness; that is what Jesus died for
and what our faith in His sacrifice declares Him to be.

If you caught aids because of drug use or an immoral lifestyle, not many people
would feel sorry for you, because you are considered responsible for the
consequences of your actions.

However, if you were born with aids because of the transgressions of your parents,
you can hardly be blamed for that.

Similarly, courts tend to hold people responsible if they knowingly spread aids to
unsuspecting others by whatever means.

So, yes, God has the right to rule and to make whatever laws He sees fit,
even excluding Himself from their jurisdiction, if He wanted to.

But He deliberately chose to bind Himself by the same code of justice which He
expects us to follow – now that is something truly noble and outstanding,
seeing we are so much lower in every respect than the glorious Almighty.

Yes, you are right, the motivation of both the Father and Jesus behind their
suffering on the martyr stake is love for us, because in it they intimately
identified with our predicament and the suffering which has befallen us from
the transgression by Adam.

‘God loved the world so much’ that He sacrificed His only Son, but the principle
behind the motivation of love He displayed is righteousness, which He loved
even more than His only Son.

This means that He loved justice and fairness more than any individual, including
His own Soul, which constitutes the highest standard of ethical behaviour imaginable.

So much for Satan’s taunt that God is untrustworthy and just a vindictive and oppressive tyrant.

 

Joshua,

right, God’s hands were tied, so to speak, because HE HIMSELF tied them by
insisting on His unique concept of righteousness.

How otherwise could He prove that He was honest, faithful, just and trustworthy,
and at the same time not prejudicing people’s free will, which He gave us as a
token of our being made in His image?

All the same, the responsibility for the consequences of this massive social
Experiment rested squarely with Him;

hence the huge vulnerability He exposed Himself to and the risk He took with
Jesus being faithful, or else losing all credibility before His intelligent creation.

No wonder Jesus was sweating blood!

More than just a question of God’s right to rule, it all seems to revolve around
the morality or fairness of the exercise of His authority.

 

Hi John,

Sorry for the delay.

The reason I like to use YHWH is because, short of using the four letters
in the Hebrew script, which I don’t know how to do, YHWH is the next
best thing, seeing we are communicating in WRITTEN form,

leaving the reader to supply whatever vowels he likes in his mind
or mouth as he reads my text; much like one would have to do reading
the original Sacred Writings.

Besides this, ‘Jehovah’ has, as we know, or, should know, the vowel marks
of Adonai, which definitely are NOT by any chance identical with those
originally associated with the Divine Name.

Knowing YHWH cannot be reduced to knowing His Name; just have a look
at JW’s spiritual forefathers the Pharisees, who knew the correct pronunciation
of God’s Name, but had no idea what the person it identified really stood for.

To most JWs it is no more than a lucky charm, a magic word which they
superstitiously use to justify all sorts of unchristian beliefs and practices.

Anyhow, you are right, the number of mandatory meetings for Israel have no
binding force for Christians,

and it looks like early Christians customarily gathered in private homes on the first
day of the week.

But, please, tell me, what do you think has precedence for Christians, the
admonition to associate, or the TYPE of people they associate with?

Would you feel comfortable to associate with ‘Christians’ who believe in
the trinity if you knew that it is a false teaching?

Or would you rather ‘disobey’ the ‘command’ to ‘gather yourself
together’ with fellow believers if that was the only association
available at your location?

What do you treasure more, unity or truth?

What would be more important to God?

Now Paul tells us clearly that the congregation is the Body of Christ, NOT
those who are not born of the Spirit!

Should members of Christ’s body be presided over by spiritual gentiles?

I guess you have to draw your own conclusions and make your own decisions,
but I hope you can discern the truth in what I am getting at.

 

Frank,

At what point did you find out about this so-called “fornication and idolatryâ€￾ that you were a party to? Was it before the story came out that the WTS was an NGO of the UN or was it when/after the story came out? Would you say that it was the story as the means of how you found out or was it something other?

Joshua,

What I asked you should not be a matter of being an issue/non issue with you on these things. Don’t view it as rather or not they have a fulfillment in our time…the question posed to you was, did those scriptures that I posted have a B.C.E. fulfillment and or a 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century fulfillment? (Also note that I am not asking about the 70 weeks)

Diagonal,

I was impressed with your #25 post so much that I thought I wrote it myself but I realize over all that you…well let me just put it like this, thanks for you reply back but any further replies would be pointless, at least from my end.