Hi John:

As best I can recall, I first found out about this "alleged" fornication and idolatry about 2002 or 2003. I was doing some personal Bible Study and research which led me to look up the United Nations. I was trying to see if I could find any evidence that the U.N. was getting ready to pounce on "false religion" as by WT understanding was the only piece of the puzzle left. What I found astounded me. I spent the next 2 to 3 years looking into everything that I could find on the subject, both positive and negative. I must say that the negative evidence won out. I have concluded beyond any doubt on my part that the brothers at the highest levels of Bethel up to and including the GB knew of this clandestine involvement, but lied about it at every turn and continue to do so to this very day. Through legal means and no doubt the expenditure of much mammon, the society has erased most of that evidence from the internet, so it would be nearly impossible to repeat the research that I did. They should have repented in sackcloth and ashes, but they knowingly did not. If they would have repented, no doubt Jehovah and Jesus would have accepted their repentance, and after some discipline, they would continue to have God's blessing to this day. Unfortunately, they did not and do not.

Included in my study of this subject was that I read every one of the Watchtower and Awake articles dedicated to U.N. subjects and discussions and instead of the usual cursory reading of such articles, I read them with as much scrutiny as I could. What I found was that they were "two tongued" in many ways. Like I said in my previous article, if read by one of Jehovah's Witnesses it would appear that the societies stance on the U.N. had not changed much and they were simply trying to be "diplomatic" in expressing the idea that the U.N. was the throne of Satan. But, on the other hand if being read by the general public, whom I aided in distributing the propaganda, they read glowing renditions of humanitarian projects headed by the U.N. for the betterment of mankind. It was exactly what they had agreed to do in their "agreement" with the U.N. to promote it among the public. So although I wasn't the one "sticking it" to the U.N. personally, I felt that I was assisting the Society in this illicit affair by spreading the good news of the U.N.'s accomplishments in my ministry. I was not doing this knowingly, but I did repent to Jehovah God for any part I played in it. If there was a better way to take a spiritual "shower" I would have. I did feel like an accomplice, and I felt dirty.

It cost me much more than just feeling dirty and used though. I lost all my dearest friends, whom I grew to love so much, and still do to this very day. It cost me my marriage and the woman I loved with all my heart, and still do even after she has since died. But what it did on a spiritual level is that it opened my eyes to Bible truths that I would have never discovered in the prison hole of the Watchtower, and for that I guess in some wierd way am thankful that it happened and that I reacted with the outrage that I did. Finally of July 6, 2006 I tendered my resignation from the society and no longer considered myself one of Jehovah's Witnesses. That was not a easy time, I assure you. I have confidence though that I will share my love for my brothers and sisters in the WT again someday in the Kingdom of God At that time all will know what really happened in this illicit affair of spiritual fornication and idolatry and that will include you, my dear brother.

I know some have shrugged this affair aside as just unfortunate "old news", but I could not and cannot. Frankly, I am surprised and stunned that any informed person can, but that's just me I guess. Does that answer your question, or is that way too much info? Robert King has done a very exhaustive study of this, and I believe he has all this information archived, unless I am mistaken.

frank



Does that answer your question?

 

I don't have any prophetic gifts/insights to share and I know that John is directing the question to Frank so I hope it's ok if I just share an observation here from one of my relatives.

My relative is not a Witness. I gave her a copy of the "Revelation Climax" book (printed in 1988) which she read. During the 1990's, she accepted several Watchtowers and Awakes. She posed a question one day (she's very observant) "why did the Society criticise the U.N in the Revelation book but then generously praised them in the Watchtower and Awake magazines?" From that point on, she has never read any literature printed by the Society because as she says in her own words: "she feels that she can't put total faith in what is written, because there might be a discrepancy."

We still have Bible discussions and have done so for years but she will only do so, provided I use the Bible ONLY - I'm OK with that.

Wallflower

 

Thank you for your honesty in revealing the date that you found out (about 2002 or 2003) as this shows that this is after the story came out in OCT 2001 about the WTS being an NGO.

In the 10 or so years that the WTS was an NGO, its said that is when these "two tongued" articles amounting to the so-called “spiritual fornication and idolatryâ€￾ were written, yet no witnesses recognized them as such during such time?

As to the general public, how many bible studies were there during those 10 years? How many were baptized as a result of those studies during those 10 years? These ones would have been the general public at that time, how many of them were every confused as to the view the WTS had of the UN?

EDIT- It seems that Wallflower’s relative saw an discrepancy. Wallflower, you said that she posed a question. Was it to you that she asked? If so, what was your answer?

 

Hi John:

I don't quite understand your reply. How would I find out sooner than that? The Watchtower is one of the most secretive organizations on the planet today. They don't divulge sensitive information to anyone except on a need to know basis and then very carefully. Just say what you feel and stop beating around the bush. You think I and the others just made this stuff up? You are buying the story that they were just trying to get a "library card"? Don't be so naive! You probably think they put the needs of their children before the "privacy rights" of child molesters and rapists too. I have also read every letter mailed to the bodies of Elders from the mid 80's until I was no longer an Elder about 2000 because I could not and would not remain silent in the congregation when there were confessed pedophiles lurking around the children that I personally felt responsible for. I will tell you brother that the first priority of the WTBTS is the WTBTS, do they care about their children? I believe they do, but just not enough! I suppose I am making that up as well, eh? Have you read all those letters? If you are an Elder and have access to the congregation archive files, I suggest you invest the hours that I invested and you will get an eye opening education. I am not anti JW, but I am anti lies and deceit and anti being any part of this world. The brothers at the top cannot say the same thing, I fear unless they are drunk on their own Kool-Aid. If I have misinterpreted your reply, I apologize! Please don't take this personal, It is not my attention to attack you personally, I am just stating how I feel. I don't take offense when others say things that would generally hurt feelings, so please give me the same benefit of the doubt.

Frank

 

John,

I try hard to sympathize with how JWs cringe at uncomfortable questions about their beliefs,
because if their faith was really in ‘Jehovah,’ they would have no qualms about digging
deeper into Scripture to clear up any ambiguities and anomalies they encounter in their
spiritual walk.

Although you did not ask me the question, I will tell you when and how I found out
about the UN affair.

In about 1990 I started researching WT literature in some detail, and being already
familiar with their take on the UN as being the beast, I was very surprised when
the Holy Spirit pointed out to me how the WT was now cozing up to the UN by praising
them in their literature.

I immediately started an extensive archive of articles appearing in WT publications -
complete with annotations the Holy Spirit caused me to make about the apostasy from
Scripture - for the next decade or so, which I still have in my possession.

Then, in 2001, a JW friend of mine whom I had shown all these things as they came out
in the publications during the previous decade, and with whom I had almost on a daily
basis long and heated discussions on the subject,

one day told me about the article appearing in The Guardian newspaper, and asked
why I had waited so long to expose the WT’s secret UN affair on the internet,
and why I had chosen the name 'Watchman' as pseudonym for my website.

Well, at that time I had no idea even what the internet was, so I started to read Watchman’s
site, and could see how my friend mistook me for Watchman because of all the stuff
I had told him over the past decade about the apostasy of the WT and their wrong
Parousia teaching, along with a heap of other errors as shown me by the Holy Spirit.



The thing I find disappointing, but very typical of JWs is, that you seem to be more
concerned with the image of the WT, as to how many people had even noticed the
illicit affair,

than how He, whom you so proudly imagine to represent, might feel about this
spiritual adultery.

The reputation of your idol seems to be more important than that of the God
whom it is meant to represent.

Jesus on numerous occasions stated that He declared God’s Name to His followers,
but you people have no idea what that means.

Do you imagine He gratuitously uttered the Tetragrammaton to His disciples
who grew up with the Name, and even knew how to pronounce it correctly?

Just how many times does He actually use the term ‘Jehovah’[YHWH] in the whole of
the New Testament?

Is it once, or twice?

Therefore, to declare God’s Name means to proclaim and live by what He stands for,
namely, exclusive devotion, intellectual honesty, justice and love without the hypocrisy
so prevalent among those declaring themselves His representatives!

You people would make the Pharisees blush.

 

LOL

First thing I am not a JW, never have been, so saying “you people†is a bit funny to me.

Second, I don’t care how many times it is or is not in the NT…but will you PLEASE fill in the blank in the following:

Exodus 3:15Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘__________the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.

And no I didn’t ask about how you knew about the NGO and am not concerned about it as I said to me it is a non-issue. I am not going to respond to Frank in regards to, as I see and have seen that he is passionate about it so there is no point in trying to reason, but the answers to my questions in the post say it all.

Lastly, are you Poxy that use to post in the comment section?

 

Will be answering this soon - haven't forgotten.

 

The short answer is: she asked me her question. In response I told her how I found out.

A group of people with whom I have a lot of contact with, are members of an NGO. (I'm sorry to be vague here, if I identify who they are I will “blow my cover†and “won't be under the radar†anymore. I still attend at the Hall so I have to be a bit discerning as to what I say about myself and what I don't say).

I was informed by this group of people in mid-1992 that the Society had registered and been accepted as a new NGO. Each year, current members look to see who is a new member and who has been deleted because of not meeting accreditation standards. The Society was accepted as a new member in January 1992. I didn't have an opportunity to meet with this group that year until about June. They were surprised by this news and asked me if I knew about it – I told them that nothing had been announced at the Hall and no announcement had been given in the literature. (It floored me at the time and took me several days to “get my head around it.â€)

I asked what would that mean for the Society, what would be expected of it? It was explained to me that they would have to disseminate information on a regular basis that promoted and advertised the U.N and it's goals and purposes. They had to keep doing this every year so as to keep their accreditation.

I felt that I was at a “cross-roads†spiritually speaking – should I stay or should I go? Should I be doing something with this information? I kept waiting for some kind of announcement to come from the brothers but heard nothing. I wasn't sure how Jehovah was going to deal with this. I decided that I would keep attending at the Hall. (Jesus kept going to the synagogue when the Pharisees were teaching.) I was quite certain that if I was to speak up, then I would be disfellowshipped for “apostasy.†And my goal is to help as many brothers/sisters as possible when things start becoming unstable in the Society. I was aware that I would only get one opportunity to do that so I've decided to just keep going and be watchful as to any changes or trends. I'm a “satellite sister†and I don't have a prominent role in the congregation – I figured even if I did speak up nobody will take notice because I'm at the bottom of the hierarchy.

In the mean time, whenever I picked up my magazine order, I'd go through it and remove the issues that contained references to the U.N and put them aside. I'd wait a few weeks and then take them back to the literature counter and add them to the “spare pile.†I also started placing more brochures and tracts and focused on using the Bible more at the doors and on return visits. So I only placed the magazines that didn't have references to the U.N. I didn't feel that I could place the magazines promoting the work of the U.N because I knew why that information was in there.

I also placed these magazines (ones not mentioning the U.N) with my relative. What I didn't know was that she would read other issues of the magazines whenever she went to the local laundromat. And some of the magazines she found at the laundromat contained the references to the U.N. She showed them to me and that's when she asked about the content of the material.

I explained to her why this material was appearing in the magazines and how I had found out. I also let her know that no announcement had been made to the congregations and as far as I knew, the majority of brothers/sisters wouldn't know about it. And I let her know that I was uncertain about sharing it with anyone in the congregation.

The whole time that I've been in the workforce, I've always been employed in positions and organisations where I have to show a high degree of accountability and transparency. So I'm accustomed to that kind of environment. If I'm going to be a part of an organisation, I tend to expect the same standards from its leadership. I don't ever remember the body of elders putting this proposal to the congregation, then taking a vote to see if the brothers/sisters were in agreement with distributing this information.

Wallflower

 

So let me get this straight, you are an undercover sister within the congregations and are privy to information that others are not, and in this case you found out that the WTS became an NGO of the UN and was going to every so often write in it’s articles of the WT/Awake, the goals and purposes of the UN, and yet you with this highly secretive knowledge of such “spiritual fornication and idolatry†found out basically at the beginning of this affair, but remained silent in the org all thru the years as not to be disfellowshipped and because Jesus kept going to the synagogue, and so while even thou you sister Wallflower while you knew of such a thing so early on, it would not be until years later that your brothers and sisters would find out when some news media broke the story of the WTS being an NGO. Although a small hand full of brothers and sisiters that found or find this to be an issuse…these ones were never able to discern for themselves by reading such publications therefore never knew to take those WT/Awakes aside as not to place them with the public. And instead of burning /trashing this articles, but instead later placing them back in the piles at the KH where they can then be put in laundromay's?

How many Jehovah’s witnesses were there in 1991?
How many Jehovah’s witnesses were there in 2002?
How many Jehovah’s witnesses were there in 2012?
In any of the WT/Awakes that had anything written that stated the goals and purposes of the UN, was any of it untrue?
If you had a study today and they wanted to know why Jehovah’s witnesses have identified and view the UN as the disgusting thing, what would you tell them in regards to the UN?

 

Does the fact that the WTS dissolved it’s NGO status with the UN mean that it is not still supporting it to the same degree that those felt that it was due to it being an NGO?

Today’s (2-24-13) WT study taken from the 12-15-12 WT:

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012926

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Turner

Robert Edward "Ted" Turner III (born November 19, 1938[SUP][2][/SUP]) is an American media mogul. As a businessman, he is known as founder of the cable news network CNN, the first 24-hour cable news channel. In addition, he founded WTBS, which pioneered the superstation concept in cable television. As a philanthropist, he is known for his $1 billion gift to support the United Nations, which created the United Nations Foundation, a public charity to broaden support for the UN. Turner serves as Chairman of the United Nations Foundation board of directors.

 

Hi John

Please note that I am used to dealing with men and their issues every day in a professional setting. Your post does not faze me.

Well I will admit that some of the issues were used to line bird cages. (I wasn't going to mention that in the first post as I didn't feel that it was very professional to write that.) Others (from my pea-sized magazine order) went back to the counter. I'll include that detail as it seems to be of importance to you, based on your response.

Beats the Hades out of me?? I never memorized the figures as I didn't know there would be a quiz on it later in life. And secondly, up until a few years ago, my spare time was focused on assisting family members with their health issues, so memorizing figures wasn't a priority.

I apologize for not giving a "stereotyped" Witness answer, and for not giving a response that matched your beliefs/opinions.

On the discussion board, there are individuals who have different circumstances and life experiences. Responses will vary within the group. I will point out also that you do not know me or anything about my background.

Will enlarge on other points later so there will be another post coming.

Wallflower

 

You may be upset about what happened,but wallflower is not responsible for what happened,so please dont try and make out she is part of the problem...which she is not. We all deal with things the way we know best. One person telling people who dont want to know isnt going to help. When people are ready,then Jah will direct things. It took me ages to be ready to know what i see now...and i know my JW will never be ready until the Org disapears into history.

As far as i understand it ..."WTS became an NGO of the UN" You dont have to be part of the UN to be an NGO. Thats what "NGO" stands for NON G.O. As yet Ive seen no proof that you have to be part of the UN to be a NGO.

 

"This is nothing but propaganda produced by demons to mislead people into accepting the NWO, so that when it finally unites mankind under its benevolent rule, the masses will readily accept it as coming from God."

Hello Diagonal, the above is an interesting concept, but I don't see it that way, I believe that christendom will be very much deceived but J.W will more likely be stumbled. I know it will be set up to look like peace and security on Earth, but rehashed christianity who's teachings are so far removed and mixed up with the New Age religion will throw J.W's right off course. They will be so off guard, to see this reformed harlot which was supposedly meant to be banned standing loud and proud. I think many will be stumbled and lose faith not knowing who or what to trust. I agree some will turn to the harlot because it will seem a safe haven, especially if the "not being allowed to buy or sell" is literal.
Iv'e heard that the catholic church along with the UN, want it's central place of worship to be located in Jerusalem, this would definitely cause stumbling as the WT organisation teaches that there's no modern day fulfilment associated with Jerusalem. Jesus said to "keep our eyes on the prize but also keep on the watch..when you see all these things happening know that he is at the door"..or may be I have it in the wrong order


Shikinah

 

Hi Shikinah,

yes, it is hard to believe how the WT could be so deceiving and being deceived;
but it looks like they have been taken for lunch by the beast and been given
certain assurances for the future implementation of the ‘kingdom of God’ and
their role in it.

This can be seen by how they groom their followers for the emerging internationalist
agenda in last weeks study article, and how they praise the UN’s Ted Turner for
his insights and appreciation of the unity of mankind.

Did you notice the propaganda?

WT 2012, Dez 15, pg.24-28, par.13-16

 

Hi John:

I have not read a Watchtower study article since 2006 when I severed all ties with the WTBTS, but I could not help but look up the article that you sighted in your comment. Although I agree with you that quoting Ted Turner was not the best of choices (he is a Eugenics/Globalist of the worst kind), I don't see any real connection with the U.N. in this case, at least when it comes to the context of this article. I also question whether or not the authors of the article are even acquainted with Ted Turner enough to know all his ties to the U.N. . I am definitely not a JW apologist but I think it is a real stretch to make the connection that you make based on the context of the quote.

Is the Watchtower continuing their illicit relationship with the U.N.? I do not know. It would not surprise me if they were. I know that they are involved with a European Union version of the U.N. but to what extent I have not kept up on the details as it does not matter to me anymore if they are. They have never repented as to their first encounter with inviting Satan's Throne into the Temple of God, so continued activity can't really make things any worse than they already are. Unless you repent, fornication 1 time is the same as fornication on an ongoing basis. It's not the fornication at this point that matters, it's the total lack of taking ownership of the deed and total lack of repentance. My heart does go out to all those who have been duped by the Watchtower into thinking that they were made clean through baptism to enter into a Salvation Covenant with God and Christ when they have not. How can you have approval from God to exercise an approved baptism of repentance when you have no repentance yourself? You can't. It's a no brainer!

frank

 

Hi Joshua:

I didn't say anything like that. Read what I said and don't reword it to your liking.

frank