Wow Frank, I am surprise at your reply. I would be willing to say that they know exactly who Turner is as far as knowing his affiliation with the UN, etc. Yet you are honestly and fairly based on your own opinion, willing to say that you don’t see within the context, that the WTS was promoting the views of the UN just because they quoted a individual’s views that happen to be the same as the UN’s.

So basically to you this is a non-issue in this regards? Well, I asked in regards to anything that the WTS wrote in their articles during the time that they were an NGO and “had†to write to some extent something pertaining to the UN in order to satisfy what was required by the UN in order to be an NGO…was ANYTHING that they ever said untrue? Did they ever tell any witnesses to put their trust in the UN and that it was no longer the disgusting thing? With all new studies during those 10 years, did not they also come to be informed of the WTS’s view of who the UN is? Was it consistent with the pre 1991 view and with the post 2001 view?

Didn’t prior to 1991 the WTS write articles on health, ecological, social problems, etc… from facts drawn from UN agencies and officials? Didn’t the WTS also publish photos in the magazines that are accredited to the UN? Haven’t they done so post 2001?

So use your same honestly and fairness based on your own opinion and tell me what article/s from the WTS can you refer me to that shows the“spiritual fornication and idolatry†in written form?

Just for the record this was written in 1999, during the 10-year time frame.

So as I said, to me it is a non-issue about the writings of the WT/Awakes during those 10 years, just as mentioning Turner in the article is a non-issue to you.

And I will just ask the same as I asked earlier to miss undercover:

If you had a study today and they wanted to know why Jehovah’s witnesses have identified and view the UN as the disgusting thing, what would you tell them in regards to the UN?

Note- The above only pertains to articles written within 1991/2 – 2001. The actual issue of signing up to be an NGO, I will address later.

 

Hi John:

You apparently are much more perceptive than I could ever be, so I will not attempt to educate you in any way, as I understand my limitations with understanding God's Word and bow to your all knowingness. I will not point out any articles that point to the WT's fornication and spiritual idolatry, as they are there for you to read yourself and take out of context any way you like. I don't know 1 single thing about you John, but I don't think you are truely interested in truth at all and are just a divider. You definitely have an agenda, but since you are totally anonymous and non committal in any way, it is impossible to figure out your true agenda. Homie ain't gonna play that game.

frank

 

Hi Joshua:

I have said a lot of things on this thread to a host of different people. Could you narrow down the statement that you want me to clarify and I would be happy to give it a go. Fair enough?

frank

 

Currently working on some documentation at work. Will post when I am ready.

 

John,

so you think that because the WT is having a bob each way by saying one thing
to their members and the opposite to the public while courting the beast,
they will gain God’s approval for their little dance with the Devil?

Kind of reminds one of this line by a Hebrew poet: “...fools glorify themselves,
trying to manipulate Satan... and there’s a slow, slow train coming, up around
the bend.â€￾

If I remember correctly, your forefathers also played the same game in their time,
when they professed to worship YHWH while also seeking assurances from Egypt.

Oh, that’s right, you are not a JW, but are only supporting them in their NWO agenda –
just how much do they pay you for your Public Relations services?

 

Frank, I feel that a little reminder is in store.

First off, I came on here to talk about bible prophecies as that is what is of interest (an issue) to me…it was in the context of talking about the 2300 days that you started in on the UN.

What was my reply to you? (Also see post #107 last para.)

Then what did you say?

And now that I am telling you why it is a non-issuse “to me†and why I don’t jump on the band wagon of the whole UN/NGO, and because you are at a loss and unable to produce articles from 1992-2001 that are any more or less consistent with what was said pre 1992 and post 2001, you now attack me as not being interested in truth and being a divider and having angenda? LOL…that’s something else!

I hadn’t said that you or wallflower or any others can’t think and view whatever you want to about the issue. I just said that to me it is a non-issue. There was never anything written that was telling the public nor Jehovah witnesses to look to the UN. The WTS had mantained the view of the UN as to being the disgusting thing even during those 10 years, the same view it had before 1991 and the same view it had after 2001.

It's been more years since the WTS stopped being an NGO then the actual amount of years they were an NGO…so again I would rather talk about time lines and understanding identities as they pertain to the bible. That is why I wanted to ask Joshua about his time line, but now that I did and see his replies, I know that he doesn’t know what he is talking about, but I still enjoy the attempts that are made in doing so.

And one last thing, when I said this at the end:

Had you waited on your attack on me I would have gone on to say that what Robert points out about what the WTS says about Jehovah’s witnesses becoming YMCA members and comparing it to the application of being an NGO… is a good point, a lot better than the crying about "two tongued" articles that you never noticed back then and are unwilling to produce now.

 

Hi John

The above is a textbook example of intimidation/mind control/attempt to “guilt tripâ€￾. I've witnessed this many times. Whenever a client attempts to pull this stunt, I lean forward at my desk and look them right in the eyes and say “Your mind tricks will not work on me.â€￾ And they don't work on me on the discussion board either.

The other possibility is that this is an example of a poor understanding of Jehovah's Witnesses “cultureâ€￾ or environment/hierarchy.

I have seen past examples of people who have been disfellowshipped for openly expressing disagreement with the 1914 doctrine. Some of them were elders. If the Governing Body doesn't listen to elders who speak the truth on a point that is incorrect, why on earth would I think that they would pay attention to a single sister who raises an issue? What basis would I have for thinking that? Because I'd witnessed how the body of elders had treated these people, I had a fear of them. And I wasn't sure if I would be able to “hold my ownâ€￾ if asked to attend a judicial committee. (And I should add that in those days I was working at a different occupation than the one I work at now.)

I don't think like that anymore. These days I have a respect for the elders but I don't have a fear of them. If I were to be disfellowshipped tomorrow, I'd be able to deal with that because I've been mentally preparing myself for some time now for this event. Having been treated as a “satellite sisterâ€￾ for so long has trained me to be self-sufficient and independent. If I'm going to be disfellowshipped, it'll happen when I'm ready. And I believe that people are conscious of their limitations and know what they can deal with.

The idea that my pea-size magazine order would impact on the effect of the global printing of the Watchtower and Awake is highly laughable. I'm laughing even as I write this. I liken it to going up to a dyke and plugging my finger into the hole, in order to stop the waters from breaking through.

Regarding the question about Bible studies, the person who is studying the Bible with me now has been studying for some time. I had been having Bible discussions with the person for about 30 years before they agreed to the study. They are highly familiar with the U.N NGO affiliation and the child abuse issue also. These issues are mentioned at almost every study and we have been discussing them for several years. Their motive for having the study is that they are trying to figure out the Governing Body, trying to sort out the fact from the fiction.

I highly doubt that you are genuinely interested in that response and believe that you have only asked the question as you are looking for more material to use as leverage in order to attempt to further intimidate/criticise/judge.

Be advised that I will no longer be having any communications with you until such time as you provide an example of where a single sister (matching my own situation in the congregation) was able to influence and persuade the Governing Body to change their mind on a major decision or policy. So that this will be a fair comparison, the sister MUST match my situation in all respects. (Single, no other Witnesses in the family). Obviously this will rule out her being an elder's wife or daughter. It will also rule out her being a member of a multi-generational family of Jehovah's Witnesses.

In the meantime, it will be a case of “talk to the hand, because the ears aren't listening.â€￾

Wallflower

 

Hello Diagonal I must have missed this article, but will check it out and get back to you on this one..


Shikinah

 

Oh my wallflower,

This is the reality…I summed up your post 100% correctly. Anything that you took from it that you are being defensive about is your own doing…not mine. I never at any point stated that you were suppose to take on any elders or GB in order to change policies. I am well aware of what happens to people who question. It is a personal decision of what and to who and when one is willing to speak out about something. I don’t have any issue with what you did…all I did was reiterate what you said in order to make some points which obviously need not be made now. To each there own.

And as far as pea size order, that is a ridiculous argument to make. How many would you say you ever put back over time? How many would you say that your relative picked up to come to the conclusion that she did? (I know that we are not talking about your actual magazines making it into her hands.) The point about putting them back instead of burning/trashing was something that I was applying to you…but again only due to reiterating what you yourself said in regards to what you did with them. If you said that they were such that they needed to be put aside so as not for you to place them out to the public when you went out in service, then why would you later return these same magazines (no matter how small the amount) to a place where they would most definitively be place back out to the public? PLEASE show a little humility here and don’t get offended at me for stating such.

And as far as what you said in reply to the study that you are having…doesn’t address the question that I asked.

Also this was not answered:

I’ll let the statistics questions go since that point evades you.

We shall soon see if I am talking to the hand or not…LOL!


P.S. "E"...you and Diagonal both must have missed post #112!

 

To be honest I'm not surprised, I have noticed these sort of things for years, perhaps I really don't want to think that they are that ruthless that they are preparing to deliberately sell us out. Perhaps I hope for my own sanity that they are just naive and wrongly lead lol.. Because I have spent far too many years angry and bitter with the Watchtower, that it really did not accomplish anything except for a quality which was not of a christian nature. Like Wallflower, I attend the meetings because I too want to be there for when the organisation go's down like a pack of cards. I detest what I see, but I know Jehovah allows it for a reason plus I want to be baptised. It saddens me in my heart to see the wool pulled over our brother and sisters eyes, especially mentioning and bigging up Ted Illuminati Turner who's agenda is to depopulate the so called "useless eaters"
Can the governing body and those in Bethel really be this dis-informed?


Shikinah

 

Hi John:

Thanks for the reminder. I would enjoy a discussion of Bible Prophecy, even if I am on the sidelines looking in. I would especially like to hear what you have to say about Bible Prophecy, why you say it, and what backround that idea comes from. As a matter of fact John, I would not mind a little bio on yourself, so we all here on this little ole discussion board will know something of who and what we are conversing with. Fair enough. I expect a noncommittal response.

frank

 

Took me a bit to find the article , the online version doesn't have page numbers

this is where you find "the facts being bent to support what is WT teach"

"in lands around the globe, only Jehovah’s Witnesses have adopted God’s way of thinking as a group."

in inserting this broad based statement within a paragraph about world prejudice
"THEY" lead others to think only WT taught followers think this way .

Having been connected with many "christian" sects I can vouch this is not a
true statement ...and as in every "sect" only those learning/studying and
putting into practice those values show any progress in the christian mind.

This is just flat a bald faced lie , that they are the only ones who teach this ..

..there are many groups that support a global
frame of mind and are not "nationally , racially" pigeon holed in thought ..

Yes , God and Christ Jesus are without prejudice

Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. 36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

WT interpretation for the above statement

It is true that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation
the one who fears him and does what is right , as long as you are one of
Jehovah's Witnesses ...

yet the very biblical paragraph was about Cornelius who "was not a Jew"
was accepted by God ...(we won't take a turn down the path of conversion)

These kinds of broad based statements also demonstrate a turn of mind that
allows internal prejudicial view that only "this group" is the chosen one of God
when in actuality God chooses and draws individuals and approves only of
those who actually implement those teachings into a pattern of behavior that
closely follows the Christ ....I grant you that you can find "more" of correct
dogma in the publications , but there are so many broad based statements
that allow a condemning mind to be absorbed right along side the good stuff..

 

You were “ugly and thinâ€￾ on the other board but now you are “francis son of charlesâ€￾ on this board

http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/showthread.php?6537-bio-for-frank

https://www.facebook.com/?sk=welcome#!/john.amos.52459

Enough bio for you?

“Have I been with YOU men so long a time, and yet, you did not recognized me?â€￾

 

the last thing i will say about the whole UN thing...

What would the Jehovah’s Witnesses in the neighborhood say in the more details on this matter?

What would Jehovah’s Witnesses in the neighborhood say the better way that will surely bring eternal peace be?

 

I have read over it and the answer that I gave you in a “private†email that you so graciously posted “publiclyâ€â€¦LOL (Note- in the future you might what to at least replace the senders name with the word’s “name deletedâ€) I still have the same answer for you at this time…that being:

What I asked you in regards to those scriptures having pre and 1st century fulfillment are part of what I was looking to hear on to see if your view is supported…so I am still waiting for your answers in regards to.

In this form it stands to reason that the constant feature will be removed and the disgusting thing will then at that time be placed (possible being that it is due to the placing of the disgusting thing that removes the constant feature) at then from "that time†there will be the 1,290 days.

 

John,

JWs in your neighbourhood would be telling you that the incoming
kingdom which is about to replace the present, wicked lawless
system of nation states to super-naturally establish a global brotherhood
of man here on earth is from God.

 

Hello Wallflower,

What an interesting account sister, and what a difficult predicament to be in. You must be a very balanced individual, to be able to see all this happen and not want to blurt it out or tell your nearest and dearest just to get it off your chest.
I can understand why you made the decision you did, and knowing what I know I have done the same. I have tried explaining the UN scenario to my sister who is a baptised witness and she could not see any wrong what so ever, and turned the tables on me saying "you want to be careful distorting the facts, another person I know quite well also said similar things. So from that time I realised it was a waste of time, so I gathered if an individual was crying out in prayer to Jehovah for answers he will in time lead them to individuals like ourselves.
I have since helped a friend attend meetings, who knows all the pit falls and errors of the organisation, and he sometimes asks the elder who studies with him some of these questions, but others like the UN issue he has not mentioned as yet.
Jehovah will reveal to those who are looking for answers and want to worship him in spirit and in truth.
So I commend you Wallflower as I know the difficulties involved, if we all rose up and shouted from the roof tops, we would be seen as rebels wanting to set up division within the organisation, and where would that leave us?
Out side not being trusted or heard by anyone. I believe the time will come when it will be clearly evident to the wheat class and we will have a valid case to present, because Jehovah's holy spirit will guide the way.

Sisterly Love
Shikinah