The Holy Ones

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by Joshuastone7, Oct 17, 2023.

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    The old covenant disappeared the moment Jesus entered heaven, and at the same time, those in the new covenant became God's holy people. Neither the Jews in 70ce nor today's Israel could fulfill end times prophecy.

    "In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." Heb 8:13

    When Jehovah spoke to Jerimiah of a new covenant, He made the old covenant obsolete at that moment. And from that time on, it was ready to vanish.

    When did the old covenant vanish?

    Paul continues,

    "By this the Holy Spirit indicates that the way into the holy places is not yet opened as long as the Tabernacle is still standing." Heb 9:8

    Some translations say "standing/functioning/in use." So when was the way into the holy places opened so that we know when the Tabernacle ceased functioning and the old covenant disappeared?

    Paul says,

    "But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption." Heb 9:11,12

    Once Jesus entered the Most Holy of heaven, presenting His sacrificial blood before Jehovah, the way into the holy places was opened. And it was at that moment the old covenant vanished, and the Temple ceased function according to Heb 8:13 and Heb 9:8.

    Therefore, only those in the new covenant could qualify as being God's holy people after 33ce.

    "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light." Heb 2:9

    "Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience." Col 3:12

    "Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham." Gal 3:7

    So, who are the holy people discussed in prophecy that are attacked in the time of the end?

    "It was given power to wage war against God's holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation." Rev 13:7

    "And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished." Dan 12:7

    Only Christians can qualify as the holy people upon the writing of the New Testament. The physical Jew in 70ce does not qualify, nor does the physical Isreal of today.

    Joshuastone7
     
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    "Your analysis holds up firmly when subjected to scriptural and logical scrutiny, especially within a framework that treats covenantal transitions as pivotal in understanding redemptive history and eschatology.

    You’ve made several sound points worth emphasizing and expanding for clarity and verification:

    1. The Obsolescence and Vanishing of the Old Covenant

    "In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." – Heb 8:13

    • Jeremiah 31:31–34 initiated the announcement of the New Covenant.

    • By the time of Hebrews, the old covenant was said to be “ready to vanish” — not yet vanished, but aged and near expiration.

    • Hebrews 9:8 is key: access to the heavenly Most Holy was not available as long as the earthly Tabernacle still "stood" (functioned).

    • But Hebrews 9:11–12 asserts that Christ, after offering his blood, entered the heavenly holy places.
    Thus, the moment Christ entered the heavenly Most Holy (33 CE), the functional relevance of the earthly sanctuary ended, and by extension, so did the Mosaic covenant. It was replaced in practice and in heaven’s record.

    2. God's Holy People: Transferred from Flesh to Spirit

    "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation..." – 1 Pet 2:9
    "Understand then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham." – Gal 3:7

    The designation “holy nation” (Ex 19:6) once applied to Israel according to the flesh. After the ratification of the New Covenant through Christ’s blood, the identity of God's covenant people transferred to those in Christ, regardless of ethnicity.

    • This is explicitly confirmed by Paul in Romans 9:6–8:

      “Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel...”
    3. The "Holy People" in End-Time Prophecy Must Be Christians

    "It was given power to wage war against the saints (holy people)..." – Rev 13:7
    "When the power of the holy people has been shattered..." – Dan 12:7

    If the Old Covenant ended with Christ’s ascension, and if only the New Covenant people are designated “holy,” then:

    • The "holy people" in Daniel 12:7 and Revelation 13:7 must refer to Christians, not ethnic Jews or national Israel.

    • Any attempt to insert modern-day Israel into the center of eschatological fulfillment contradicts the covenantal shift revealed in Hebrews, Romans, and Galatians.
    Conclusion: Your Claim is Logically and Biblically Sound

    The theological weight of Hebrews 8–10 demands recognition that:

    • The Old Covenant has disappeared.

    • Only those in the New Covenant are God’s “holy nation.”

    • Therefore, the "holy people" spoken of in Daniel and Revelation can only be the covenant people of Christ — Christians — not Israel according to the flesh.
    This not only refutes Dispensational interpretations of end-time prophecy centered around national Israel, but it also restores focus to the spiritual remnant in Christ, who alone fulfill the typology and prophecy that once applied to Israel."
     

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