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The identity of the two horned beast in Revelation

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by Jan, Jun 5, 2018.

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    Jan Active Member

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    We have heard the Wt society to explain it to mean an Anglo-American world power. But the recent events seem to contradict that opinion. The British government does not seem to form any special relationship with the Trump administration. To the contrary they are opposed to the Americans on the Iran deal and the US move of its embassy to Jerusalem.

    In the recent days there are three horns that especially challenge the rising smal horn, the Trump administration. They are the British, German and French administrations.

    According to Daniel 7, three horns would be pucked off before the rising little horn. And Daniel 7 explains what it means that three horns are plucked off. It says that this eleventh arrogant horn will humiliate three kings. (verse 24).
    So there is a huge possibility that those three kings are Great Britain, Germany and France.
    There are also a lot of talks about trade war between those countries and USA.

    So to me it looks like the rising eleventh horn is the same as the two horned beast that talks like a dragon. That is the USA it self. And the two horns could well simbolize the two party system in USA, the Republicans and the Democrats.
     
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    Abdiel7

    Abdiel7 New Member

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    I commented on this in another thread.

    "The WTBS interpretation of the horns on the unusually strong beast is subpar. It can be argued that Britain is the horn with eyes and a mouth or more fittingly the globalists which are centered in britain but the France, Spain and Netherlands thing doesn't mesh well given how much of the timeframe of that horn is clearly in the time of the end. A future fulfillment is sound but I vary from Robert on the identity of two of the three horns plucked out.

    These three kings to be humiliated must be obstacles to the goal of the blaspheming horn that is global trampling dominion France and Britain are all for world government though.

    America stands as an obstacle and the amount of time and effort the globalist have invested in subverting America is pretty ludicrous and as the standing president declared Americanism not globalism will be our credo.

    Russia: since the mid 19th century Britain has been terrified of US and Russian cooperation in an environment free of meddling the US and Russia are natural allies additionally the Russia undermined the Rothschild's efforts to set up WWI decades early which they swore revenge on the Russian revolution was part experiment, part revenge and part an effort to make the US and Russia ideologically incompatible so they couldn't carry that prior relationship through the twentieth century. Presently Russia has moved past the Soviet days and is nationalist pro family pro (orthodox) christian and the globalist are obsessed with provoking war against it.

    China is frenemies with the NWO they cooperate with them on a lot but think they can do better and call the shots. The economic maneuvering of Russia and China poses a significant threat the globalist which would be increased significantly if the US joined."
     
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    Jan Active Member

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    The globalists are quite happy with Trump. One of the most prominent is Henry Kissinger. He has given Trump his full support. Also the Economist magazine owned by Rothshild-globalists had a special edition in 2017 where they depicted Trump as the King and jugde of the world.
    So the top layer of globalists are all for Trump. But beneath them the next layer has to camps one for Trump and an other against Trump. That is to make an illusion of choice and democracy. But the top layer contols the game. And profit from the competition. It is like the managers of sport events. They don't care so much about who wins, for them it is more important to make money from the event. They are only happy when there are competing sport teams fighting to win.
     
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    Jan Active Member

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    The globalists have a solution to this problem. I have heard that they will give give the US a deadly sword-stroke by EMP attacks to shut down USA. Then chaos will erupt. And then the globalists will offer US international help to restore USA. But after that USA will not be the same any more.
    Revelation 13 speaks about the sword-stroke and what that will lead to.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Where does the first beast of Rev 13 come from?

    Where does the beast in Rev 17 come from?

    How many heads were wounded and healed in the first beast of Rev 13, all or one?

    What makes you think this healing is future, and hasn't already occurred?

    What is the one nation that is spoken of alive in Revelation, after we know it was destroyed in the past?

    Why do you think the beasts in Rev 13 mirror those in Dan 7?
     
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    Jan Active Member

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    Hi Joshua,
    The 7 headed beast is said to come from the sea. The fact that it is composed of different animals as described in Revelation 13, means it is composed of different countries. We have heard in the news the expression "The International Community. I think that is this beast.

    As clearly stated in Revelation13:3 only one of the seven heads gets a deadly sword-stroke.

    Revelation 13 is about the last 42 months before Armageddon and a shorter time period prior and after the 42 months. So this can not have happened in the past.

    The beast in Revelation 17 is about UN. So it is not the same as the Beast in Revelation 13. It does not either have the same characteristics. The prophecy in Revelation 17 means that UN will go dormant in to a deep abyss. It will only come back for an hour before Armageddon after the 42 months.

    The beasts in Revelation and some in Daniel are said to be present in the end time. Especially the the beast that gets its final 11th arrogantly speaking horn.

    Then your question about the nation that was alive in the time Revelation was written, that is the Roman empire. But I am not sure what is the seventh king mentioned in Revelation 17. Maybe that is the wild beast coming out from the sea, the seven headed beast of Revelation 13, that will get a great power for 42 months?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Rome is not mentioned in Revelation. There is however a city named alive after we know it was destroyed. What is it?

    Yes only one beast comes back to life in Rev 13, not the whole beast into the abyss and out. That doesn't happen till Rev 17, meaning the beast goes into the abyss already having a death stroke healed. We know this because John says, "the beast I saw", he saw the beast with a healed death stroke.

    Rev 13 only says this beasts acts on the Holy ones for 42 months, it does not say it comes from the sea at that time.

    Right?
     
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    Jan Active Member

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    Revelation 13:1 And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    ?
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    What does the beast represent? ( Rev 13:1-4; 11-12; 14-15; 17-18) What does the sea represent? “Many waters”? (Rev 17:1, 17:15) Hmmm.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    One night on October 12th, 539 BCE, Cyrus' engineers diverted the waters of the Euphrates, at which point his soldiers entered Babylon without a fight, bringing down Babylon.

    This event was a first fulfillment of prophecy, and representative of a final fulfillment in the end times.

    Jer 50:35 "There is a sword against the Chal·deʹans,” declares Jehovah, Against the inhabitants of Babylon and against her princes and against her wise ones."

    Jer 50:38 "There is a devastation on her waters, and they will be dried up."

    Dan 5:30 "That very night Bel·shazʹzar the Chal·deʹan king was killed."

    Rev 16:12 "The sixth one poured out his bowl on the great river Eu·phraʹtes, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the rising of the sun."

    Rev 17:15 "He said to me: “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues."

    Zech 5:11 "He replied: “To the land of Shiʹnar to build her a house; and when it is prepared, she will be deposited there in her proper place.”

    These rivers, and seas of peoples that feed Babylon the Great will start to dry up, as her demise approaches. In one hour, just as in the times of old, she will meet her demise, for all the blood shed of the Holy ones resides in her cup.

    Daniel chapter 5 foretells this fall within the handwriting on the wall, when king Belshazzar orders the gold utensils of the temple to be brought into him.

    Dan 5:2 "While under the influence of the wine, Bel·shazʹzar gave an order to bring in the vessels of gold and silver that his father Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar had taken from the temple in Jerusalem, so that the king and his nobles, his concubines and his secondary wives could drink from them."

    Does this remind you of our Lords words of the gold within the temple of our bodies? We are advised by our Lord to buy gold from him.

    Rev 3:8 "I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich,"

    One day the 8th king will attempt to enter the newly established spiritual temple of Christs remaining brothers, the 12 loves of the Holy place, in order to remove that gold from Gods Spiritual temple on earth.

    Eze 38:10-13 "This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘In that day thoughts will come into your heart, and you will devise an evil plan. You will say: “I will invade the land of unprotected settlements. I will come against those living in security, without disturbance, all of them living in settlements unprotected by walls, bars, or gates.” It will be to take much spoil and plunder, to attack the devastated places that are now inhabited and a people regathered from the nations, who are accumulating wealth and property, those who are living in the center of the earth. “‘Sheʹba and Deʹdan, the merchants of Tarʹshish and all its warriors will say to you: “Are you invading to get much spoil and plunder? Have you assembled your armies to carry off silver and gold, to take wealth and property, to seize a very great spoil?”

    They will attempt to turn on the loaves of the Holy place, in imagining Jehovah will leave the earth if they cut themselves off from Christs remaining brothers.

    "They say: “Let us tear off their shackles And throw off their ropes!” Psm 2:3

    However Jehovah will scoff at them, and bring his ruin in response to their actions, and anyone whose worship is obvious from the night before Babylons fall.

    Dan 5:4 "They drank wine, and they praised the gods of gold and silver, of copper, iron, wood, and stone."

    These elements the nations worship make up the statue of Daniel chapter 2.

    Dan 2:32 "The head of that image was of fine gold, its chest and its arms were of silver, its abdomen and its thighs were of copper, its legs were of iron, and its feet were partly of iron and partly of clay."

    What we currently remain watch for is the revealing of the disgusting thing, in fulfillment of the day and hour.

    All love...

    AJ
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    The “Water(s)” (Rev 12)

    And the serpent disgorged water a like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river. But the earth came to the women’s help, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon disgorged from its mouth.” (12:15-16)

    Revelation 13 describes all the activities of the “beasts”. How many are spoken of in Revelation?

    And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names. Now the wild beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were as those of a bear, and its mouth was as a lion’s mouth. And the dragon gave to the beast its power and its throne and great authority.” ( Rev 13:1-2 NWT )

    But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire. ‘There is no peace, my God has said, for the wicked ones.’” ( Isa 57:20-21 NWT )
    One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me: ‘Come, I will show you the judgment on the great prostitute who sits on many waters,’”. . . (Rev 17:1a)
    He said to me: ‘The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.’” (Rev 17:15 NWT) Also see: Jer 51:13, Mt 13:47-52.

    The Beast(s):
    1. out of abyss (Rev 11:7) persecute and kill the 2 witnesses.
    2. out of sea (Rev 13:1-4) 7 heads + 10 horns+10 crowns; like a leopard, feet like bear, mouth like lion
    fatal wound that heals, whole earth follows it. It gets authority and power from dragon (satan)
    3. out of the earth (Rev 13:11-12) 2 horns like lamb, speaks like dragon. Demands worship and mark of 666.
    The question arises: “Are these three all the same beast, or are they individual beasts?”

    Consider this: The beast in Rev 11 comes out of the abyss which, in the Bible, represents the grave or the place where demons are kept. “Jesus asked him: ‘What is your name?’ He said: ‘Legion”, for many demons had entered into him. And they kept pleading with him not to order them to go away into the abyss.” (Lu 8:30-31 NWT; Job 26:6, 28:22, 31:12; Ps 88:11; Pr 15:11, 27:20)

    Also: “He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while.” (Rev 20:2-3 NWT)

    To me, astronomically, the abyss is a black hole, where nothing escapes. The angel with the key, is able to reverse the power and open it. (Rev 9:1-2, 11, 11:7; 17:8; 20:1, 3 NWT) “They have over them a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon”. The meaning of both the Hebrew and Greek is destroyer. “King” = basileus (bas-il-yooce’)
    1. leader of the people, prince, commander, lord of the land, king

    Abaddon = “destruction”
    1. ruin
    2. destruction
    3. the place of destruction
    4. the name of the angel-prince of the infernal regions, the minister of death and the author of havoc on the earth
    Apollyon = “Destroyer”
    1. the angel of the bottomless pit, the Destroyer
     

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