The Image of the Wild Beast

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by Joshuastone7, Jan 25, 2016.

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Rev 13:14,15; "It misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that it was permitted to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. And it was permitted to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast."

    Through my recent studies I have given great consideration to this image of the beast, and I would like to share some findings.

    There are a few interesting connections between the image the beast sets up in Rev 13 and the image Nebuchadnezzar set up in Daniel chapter 3. First of all the number of the beast closely matches the dimensions of the image set up by Nebi at Dan 3:1; "Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar the king made an image of gold that was 60 cubits high and 6 cubits wide." We can cross reference now the number of the beast in Rev 13:18; "This is where it calls for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number, and its number is 666." Given the image in Babylon was three dimensional, we can imagine the image was 60 cubits high by 6 cubits wide by also 6 cubits deep.

    Now what's of particular interest is the events surrounding the worship of these two images. In Dan 3 the people of Babylon were commanded to fall down and worship the image Nebi set up when they heard the music from the instruments that would play indicating time to worship, and if they refused to do so, they would be thrown into the fire and burned up. Well we know in Dan 3 that three men refused to worship the image and just such a fate was attempted upon them as we read at Dan 3:19; "Then Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar became so furious with Shaʹdrach, Meʹshach, and A·bedʹne·go that the expression of his face changed toward them, and he gave orders to heat the furnace seven times hotter than usual." Now we know from the recorded event that these three survived the fire because Jehovah sent an angel that protected these men within the fire.

    If we look back at the wild beast in Rev 13 we also see this beast causing fire to come down out of heaven at verse 13 "And it performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind." Now who does this fire fall upon? It falls upon Christs brothers and those with them at the first trumpet when indignation is poured out on the constant feature to remove it, meaning that of the WTS.

    Now what is the significance of those who this fire comes upon, or who pass through the fire? Zech 13:9 "And I will bring the third part through the fire; And I will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, And I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people,’ And they will say, ‘Jehovah is our God."

    Now let's compare that "third" to the first trumpet in Rev 8:7; "The first one blew his trumpet. And there was hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was hurled to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green vegetation was burned up."

    So then it is a third of those from within Jehovah's courtyard that will be refined by the fire of the denunciations coming upon Jehovah's name, just like those three that passed through the fire for not worshiping the image set up by Nebi. So therefore the wild beast being said to "kill those who do not worship the wild beast" is a reference to this passing through the fire in order to be refined just as those three in Babylon.
     
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    Thinking

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    Yes well that makes sense....so here we have a genuine type and anti Type?..is that right?

    This is what I don't understand....with each trumpet blast...1/3 is some way done away with with...how can this be....

    Another question..is this...is this talking about the annoited on the earth currently...or all of us?

    Thanks
    Sis thinking
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    The third are those groaning over what is going on, they are the ones suffering, those still with God, and the events will be on the sons and slaves.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Well researched, agreed with your conclusions.

    Daniel 3 is an example of what will happen with those who refuse to "bow" to the image.

    Jesus being the "4th" like a Son of God that protected those in the furnace of affliction.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    So then there should be a few points we can glean from this understanding.

    #1 The image of the beast is somehow a form of worship, or of religious form given Nebuchadnezzar associated the image with his gods.

    #2 The image must be part of Babylon the Great, and the very same entity that comes against the constant feature.

    #3 It may be apparent that the mark will become visible the moment the second beast causes fire to come out of heaven, starting the first trumpet. For it is the men who receive the mark that obtain the ulcers by their being uncovered in the first bowl.

    Now a few questions. Would the king have set up the image in his dream from Dan 2? Is the image in Dan 2 the wild beast? Does the image in Dan 2 have multiple fulfillment's, or even three? Could the three 6's be three Dan 2 images that existed over time and represent their gross imperfection? Would that mean Rev 17 and Johns mention of five fallen being in the middle of the second 6?

    I believe we are starting to reach the point in prophecy we cannot say we can uncover any further history without further fulfillment...
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    I agree with what you say.....
    "I believe we are starting to reach the point in prophecy we cannot say we can uncover any further history without further fulfillment..."....bingo! Amen.

    That is my thought too....and why I see the future in a much grander scheme than the UN/League of Nations...a paper tiger. Who would 'bow down' to any of this?

    This is not the Wild Beast, imo...it'll take an ultimate power to bring ultimate worship. The 'League of Nations' was NEVER a world power for us to give it the receivership of world prophetic significance as WT did/does, then The UN rising out of the ashes as the 'death-stroke got healed'...hogwash....pitiful prophesy exegesis.

    The Wild Beast yet to come is a terrible beast the world has never-before seen...garnering worshipful adoration never-since given. Then IT will make an image of a world power that existed years ago....and was revered by not only people of that early time...but the Wild Beast itself.., something the Devil made himself, as a former god of the world...which he is/was. He'll bring back archaeological history, maybe even hidden machinery used in times long ago to prove the power of the wild beast whose death-stroke got healed.

    At any rate, we're talking politics and power of a magnitude unknown today among debt-ridden and near bankrupt 'world rulers', like US , China, (and certainly NOT Russia's 3rd-world racketeers).

    This world-power Wild Beast will go up against the Prince of Princes, Jesus Christ. He must have the 'alien', super-weapons, and display them for all the earth to see, so the worshipers on earth will bow down and say, "Who is like the Wild Beast, and who can do BATTLE against it?"

    Nuclear weapons? People are not impressed with these 'old hat', devices from WW2. Laser tech? So what, "I had my eyes done in 20 minutes...."

    Speaking of old-world technology, did anyone see the present digs going on at Easter Island?

    The stone images all have 35-50 foot BODIES under them. Now, they thought the 15 foot heads were heavy, and impossible to make, and transport.........
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    It's the death-stroke event which takes the former (Daniel 7) empires and mutates them into the conglomeration (Rev 13).

    I agree that as-is the UN / Western world is not something people will "fall for" and worship.

    But post-economic-crash-global-war? People will cry for the "mountain" like nations to "fix" the world.

    WW2-esque nationalism to a degree we haven't seen in our lives; couple that up with Agenda 2030-esque "humanism" and this generation of God-haters... and we could very quickly go from an ineffectual UN-West to a world dominating totalitarian system.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Excellent questions all! And I won't venture a guess, because you're concluding sentence pretty much sums up where I'm at :)
     
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    Frank Conger

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    Be careful how you look at and hear the word "image" because as you know the word does not necessarily have to mean the kind of image that Neby had built on the plains of Dura in his time. We are made in the "image" of our Creator and we are not anything to bow down to..I think that the beast right now is the United Nations and they are the beast without the "ten Kings" in power as we do not see that manifestation yet. But, as we are made in the Image of our Creator, so the "image" of the beast will be in the image of its Father or predecessor, the current U.N. I don't know if the image of the beast will be called The U.N. or the second U.N. or something different, but it will clearly "resemble" its Father except it will have ten kings with ten diadems that will rule with the beast for an "hour".

    Frank
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    The Hebrew word used in Genesis, to describe the creation of mankind, is tselem (tseh’-lem). It’s pronounced like sail-em. Strong’s says: from an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, i.e. (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence, a representative figure, especially an idol:--image, vain shew. It says that man is a shadow of the heavenly beings. The term translated as “our likeness”, or “our image” comes from the Greek word eikon. In English it is spelled icon. Figuratively it is a representation, resemblance of the reality.

    In Plato’s “Republic” he likens it as “the shadow of the reality” in the allegory of the cave. Paul also uses a similar description in his letter about the Mosaic Law, to the Colossians, as “Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ.” ( Col 2:17 NWT ) He used this at the beginning of his letter, “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;” ( Col 1:15 NWT ) In his letter to the Hebrews, he says; “For since the Law has a shadow of the good things to come, but not the very substance of the things, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered year after year, make those who approach perfect.” ( Heb 10:1 NWT )

    In all of the occurrences, in Revelation, speaking of the beast and its “image”, the Greek word used is eikon. It is therefor the likeness, image. What John saw was not the reality, or real thing. We can liken it to watching a movie. It is representative of the world system of governments. At the present time, the United Nations is a toothless beast with no real power over the United States, England, Russia, or China. These independent nations make their own rules. We will have to wait and see how it all unfolds. These nations are doing the same things today that they were doing 50 years ago. They are flexing their muscles, pushing and shoving, to see what the others react.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I came across an interesting interpretation/comment/theory of the two beasts in Revelation. This is from an old book titled “The Counting and the Interpretation of the Beast, by James Challis, 1881. He states this about the beast with two horns mentioned at Rev 13:11-13.

    “The second beast rises out of the earth, possibly as having an origin more terrestrial and recognisable than that of the first. Inasmuch as it exercises all the power of the first, and operates in its presence, it does not differ in the spirit of its influence from the latter. It appears to be only an extension in a changed form of the worldly power of the first beast ; for, in fact, subsequently, as in verse 18, the two are spoken of conjointly as ‘the beast.’

    The distinction between the two beasts I consider to be dependent on a most momentous fact in the world's history. About the commencement of the seventh century after the birth of Christ, both Mohammedanism and the Papacy began to sway the destinies of men, not by a power which was wholly physical, like that of the ancient dynasties, but by similar temporal power combined with the force of words and ordinances. The Koran of Mahomet, and the decrees of the Papacy, have both been a real power from the epoch above- mentioned to the present time, and the deeds and the convictions of a vast number of earth's inhabitants have thereby been influenced and determined. Accordingly the second beast has two horns, to signify two modes of exerting its power, and forasmuch as the power in each of the forms depends not alone on physical prowess, but in greater degree on the meaning and efficacy of writings and statutes, it ‘had horns like a lamb, and spake as a dragon’ (chap. 13:11), the horns being, as usual, symbolical of power.

    On the basis of the foregoing considerations we may now undertake to answer the question, What is the beast? According to the above stated views the beast is the complex representation of the characteristics of the whole civilized world from the earliest times to the time being, embracing not only the several Pagan dynasties, but also the later kingdoms that have in succession ruled in Asia and modern Europe, as subordinately represented by the second beast. According to the prophecy the number of these following kingdoms is ten. In Revelation 12:3 crowns are said to be on the heads, whereas in chap. 13:1 the crowns are on the ten horns, indicating that the rule of the ten kingdoms occupies the final portion of the general rule of the heads.” (pp 16-17)

    I will post more of this later. It gets into the influences of religion on kingdoms/governments. If you look up the powers of religion on the populations, you will find that Christianity and Islam - (Mohammedanism) are the two largest on earth. “As of 2010, Christianity was by far the world's largest religion, with an estimated 2.2 billion adherents, nearly a third (31%) of all 6.9 billion people on Earth. Islam was second, with 1.6 billion adherents, or 23% of the global population. (Pew Research Center). The earth is where the second beast comes from. (Rev 13:11)
     
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Hi Tsaphah and all,

    Here is a interesting link on this subject:

     
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    Poetry of Providence

    Poetry of Providence Active Member

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    Wow , Joe , I rarely get goose bumps watching utube stuff ,
    but that downright gave me the willies . and chills I haven't
    felt that in a long time ..tho I am inclined the think the
    "free nations " would bomb and trash Arab countries before
    they would allow such a thing ..but one thing is sure that
    the prophetic word will without fail occur and we are
    surely awaiting the said , cannot buy or sell without
    receiving the mark ..which itself is a sort of bowing
    in obedience to the authority .
     
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Hi Pop,
    Yeah it is a interesting theory about the image of the beast. Time will show whether it is valid or not.

    One thing is for sure Islam is not the friend of Christians.

    Have a blessed day.

    Joe
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Hi Joe,
    That was quite interesting. It has all the signs of a “Born Again” organization. As usual, close but no cigar. The name, Lucifer, is Latin, not Hebrew or Greek. They are right about heylel but it literally means light bearer, and is describing the king of Babylon, and his attitude toward Jehovah and Israel. It likens the king to the covering cherub in the garden of Eden, but it does not say it is Satan.

    I wrote the following to an old friend living in France. He’s not sure about the Bible, Jesus, or Jehovah. He was raised as a Catholic and is not connected to the church at all. He claims to be agnostic. So, the following was sent to him.

    I was thinking the other day, as I was mowing my lawn, and the neighbor’s lawn. It was a good time for thinking. I do that a lot while working outdoors. It appears obvious that we were designed and created by more powerful beings. We are part of a created experiment, so to speak. The originals had certain features designed into them to be able to live a long time. We could say that the “program” was set up by the designers, to function properly for a long, long time. The creators were pleased by the created being and, decided to make another opposite being, to work with the first one. They were happy together for a period of time, male and female.

    Then, along comes another powerful being, who became jealous of the creators, and installs malware into the first two beings. Rats! Now the malware takes over and the two have no way of overcoming it. The creators promise that they will install a new program that will overcome the malware, but it will take some time, and cooperation of the descendants of the originally programmed pair. Does this sound familiar?

    Instead of a poorly written script by these puny descendants, there is a far better script that was written, with instructions on how to overcome certain features of the malware. They are sort of updates to the program but they have to be installed by the descendants themselves. There is an instruction handbook of how these updates need to be installed. You can’t pick and choose which ones to install. The instructions and updates are voluntary. They can be installed, or not.

    It’s really going to get a lot scarier/frightening in the near future. I can see the plan that is being designed into the malware. It is continuing in a way to defeat the upgrades of the creators. Soon, a microchip will be installed by the Malware owner in order to continue functioning in this system. That microchip will contain all of your identifiable information. With this information, you will receive updates to your account from which you can purchase goods, no matter where on earth you live. You will receive credits for cooperation and worthiness to the system. Some will receive more that others depending on their value to the system. The microchip will be scanned every time you choose items or require service from the system. If you choose to not have this chip implanted, and do not cooperate with the system, you will be put to death. You will be judged as a problem and drag on the system. Therefor, you will be eliminated.

    Quite a bright future for those young ones of today. While waiting for the computer system in a store, to finally find a purchase item, a young boy and his mother were buying small batteries. They were probably for some toy. The sales person rang up the items. The lady said that the price was wrong and not what was listed at the display. They went and found the correct price. The lady remarked that she liked the “old way” of having the price on the item, instead of a bar code.

    As I looked at the boy, I pointed to him and said, “You will have a different way of buying things. You will have a microchip in your hand and all you have to do is swipe your hand over the scanner.” As she walked away, the lady said, “We could see that happening before we know it!” I had to agree.

    And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.” (Rev 13:15-17 NASB )

    The problem with the “Born Again” organization’s story is that Islam will become more powerful than Christendom and rule over all the earth. I find that hard to believe. Also, the Greek word used for beheading is not with a sword, but an axe. Nice try. Also remember that Revelation is not literal, but prophetic, with figurative/metaphoric language. People also thing that the scorpions mentioned are choppers with rockets to “sting” with, and the “fire” that comes down is from ballistic missiles. Really? That puny?

    My idea of a chip is also “grasping at straws.” I have no idea of how this will all play out. Revelation is a far better script than “Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens. Not even close! o_O
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    It seems plausible that the image of Nebi's in Dan 2 is linked to the image set up by the second beast of Rev 13. As well the image set up by Nebi in Dan 3 is connected to the image set up by the second beast in Rev 13.

    The image set up by Nebi in Dan 3 was 60x6x6 and was demanded to be worshiped unless you were thrown into the fire. This is the same power the second beast posses in Rev 13, that of causing fire to come down from heaven.

    The three brothers were thrown into the fire for not worshipping the image, prophesying those who are part of the third consumed by the fire from the beast in Rev and the first trumpet, fulfilling Jehovah's words that his people would be refined by fire like gold in the time of the end. (Zech 13:9)

    Therefore it would seem scripture is telling us that in some way the entire image of Dan 2 will be present in the time of the end, with all metals present. This tells us that the understanding of the first beast in Rev as a conglomeration of all past representations of these kingdoms represented by modern nations in the end is correct.

    The interesting point is that it appears scripture is telling us that not only was the image in Dan 2 representative of kingdoms starting with Babylon, but that also they must have an end time fulfillment as well.

    As well the stone in Dan 2 that hits the statue (image) at it's feet is hitting the image as it stands in the end of this system. The image isn't just feet in the end, the image is complete from head to toe when the stone hits the image, with the stone crushing "all these kingdoms", meaning that all the previous kingdoms will exist in an end time form of some sort.

    It appears that the image of Nebi's dream in Dan 2 is the image in Rev 13 that is set up with it's mark being that of the 666, and also representing the image Nebi actually set up in Dan 3 measuring 60x6x6. These three images seem to be connected. Can this help us identify the three 6's?

    So where can we go from here? It tells us that the metals making up the image have multiple fulfillment's. It tells us that the second beast in Rev 13 sets up this image of the wild beast, and it is that of the image of Dan 2, basically meaning the second beast in Rev 13 sets up the image in Dan 2. Could this be an entity that covers the same lands as all the metals represented in Dan 2?

    Only one head is reborn in Rev 13 after a death stroke in the first beast. There appears no way around the fact that this must be Babylon the Great. Nebi identifies his city as BTG in the same manner as Rev 17 discusses BTG alive in the time of the end, and it is the only name of an actual nation alive in the time of the end after we know it was destroyed. BTG must be the death stroke that is healed.

    To sum up, can we glean more about the modern fulfillment of the wild beast and it's image? Can we identify it without further fulfillment?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    There is evidence as well that the tree of Dan 4 also represents the image of Rev 13. There also is evidence that the tree could not have only represented Nebi, let's look at it;

    Dan 4:12 "Its foliage was beautiful, and its fruit was abundant, and there was food on it for all. Beneath it the beasts of the field would seek shade, and on its branches the birds of the heavens would dwell, and all creatures would feed from it."

    Dan 2:38 "and into whose hand he has given men wherever they may dwell, as well as the beasts of the field and the birds of the heavens, and whom he has made ruler over all of them—you yourself are the head of gold."

    Obviously we know the tree represented Nebi in the immediate, as did the head of Gold in Dan 2. These two scripture just bring the two subjects together.

    Dan 4:15 "But leave the stump with its roots in the ground, with a banding of iron and of copper, among the grass of the field. Let it be wet with the dew of the heavens, and let its portion be with the beasts among the vegetation of the earth."

    This scripture here should tell us that the tree did not just represent Nebi because the copper and iron are banding the stump, and this part of the vision had no fulfillment with Nebi, and most likely again brings us back to the image in Dan 2 with those elements.

    So what appears here is that Dan 2, Dan 3, Dan 4, and Rev 13 all describe the image of the beast. In Dan 4 we see this image once stood, but was cut down, but only for some time because of the banding of copper and iron, for it would be allowed to grow again. It can be deferred then that perhaps the beast with two horns like a lamb in Rev 13 could be the copper and iron, and they bring to life the tree again/the image.

    Something I had not noticed before because the NWT does not translate it the same as others is the clay of the image in Dan 2. The translation isn't really just "clay" that mixes with iron, in fact what is intended is "baked clay".

    NIV / Dan 2:33 "its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay."

    This is a direct connection to Gen 11 where the people used "baked clay" in order to build the Tower of Babel, in that of Satan's throne.

    Gen 11:3 "“Come! Let us make bricks and bake them with fire.”

    A detailed study of the connections from Gen 11 and the Tower of Babel and Dan 4 and the heaven high tree can be found HERE.

    This brings up another interesting conversation that I had always thought I understood before now, Gen 3:15; "And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.”

    I had always excepted the understanding that the crushing of the snakes head was his demise at the end of the age, but what if that is not the case? What if what is intended here is the theme of prophecy and the death stroke to the head of the wild beast? If the tree represents Satan's rulership and his throne, this was cut down at the Tower of Babel only to be reestablished and healed in Rev 13.

    This would mean that the tree in Dan 4 represents the "head" of Satan's worldly beast. It's the head of gold in the image of Dan 2, it's the lion and first beast of Dan 7, it's the lion in Rev 13, and it is the image set up by the second beast of Rev 13, that means BTG is the death stroke that is healed, the wound to the snakes head in Gen 3:15 and fulfillment of the 7 times. BTG the great harlot, the birth place of all false worship at the Tower of Babel!
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    SingleCell, if (as we have believed, and probably rightly so) the fire that comes down from haven by the second beast of Rev 13 is the true followers passing through the fire just like the three brothers in Dan 3 who would not worship the image were thrown in the fire, and this event represents the first trumpet;

    "The first one blew his trumpet. And there was hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was hurled to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green vegetation was burned up."

    and as well if I am right about the bowls matching the trumpets (as seen HERE) then wouldn't it only be the associates of those who will be refined by fire that receive the ulcers in the first bowl? Those companions who aren't worshiping in truth, but are somehow part of what is exposed by the fire from heaven? Or can it mean all people who worship the beast?

    But then the fifth bowl discusses ulcers as well. "The fifth one poured out his bowl on the throne of the wild beast. And its kingdom became darkened, and they began to gnaw their tongues because of their pain, but they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their ulcers, and they did not repent of their works."

    This seems to denote the same ulcers, but points to the moment the wild beast goes down. So are the people in the first bowl who have the ulcers the same as those in the 5th, or can the first bowl be only those who claim to worship the true God but are found out?

    Could the fifth bowl still be talking about those who put their faith somewhere other then the true God, even though once professing to be followers of the true God? (Basically the remaining 2/3) That when they see the events unfolding in the time of the end they will recognize the true followers were right all along? Those being the two witnesses and those refined by fire?

    It seems obvious to me that when the true followers pass through the fire, their counterparts, those unfaithful men who are led away as described in Dan 8 and 11 are also revealed.

    It seems we have a 1/3 refined by fire, and 2/3 with ulcers. Does that make sense?

    What are your thoughts?
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    All reasonable, and makes sense.

    A few things to throw in the mix, as possible concepts to explore:
    • Why hail, fire and blood? Each of them is important. Hail was used in Ezekiel and Isaiah to denote judgment against Israel, a "smashing". Fire of refinement? Nebuchadnezzar's threat as you mentioned? Why blood? Death and destruction or something else?
    • The second beast calling down fire brings to mind Jehovah (Elijah) vs Baal; except this time, it's reversed, and the Baal "proves" himself?
    • The wild beast being "darkened" doesn't necessarily mean "going down"; it could mean being blind, which is what the rest of the attributes seem to infer - the people "gnaw out blasphemies and don't repent", spiritual darkness. Perhaps this is when the Wild Beast becomes truly guilty, like Babylon, even though initially Babylon was used as a refiners fire.
    The 'ulcers' themselves are reminiscent of the plagues on Egypt, as is much of Revelation 16 -- perhaps we should explore a connection there?

    " So they took soot from a kiln and stood before Pharʹaoh, and Moses tossed it into the air, and it became festering boils breaking out on man and beast." - Exodus 9:10

    Also interesting to note, is that after the 6th bowl is poured out, the 'river' is dried up (the river coming from the temple in Ezekiel? e.g. the widening out Christian covenant dried up?), and the three unclean expressions are released THEN Jesus repeats the line "look I am coming as a thief". Hmmmmmmm
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Valid points... I would add of course Jehovah's words at Zech 13:7-9, where it seems his statement here defines this whole event. The fire, hail, coming down on both those servants of his that are true, and false.

    "O sword, awake against my shepherd,
    Against the man who is my companion,” declares Jehovah of armies.
    “Strike the shepherd, and let the flock be scattered;
    And I will turn my hand against those who are insignificant.”
    “And in all the land,” declares Jehovah,
    Two parts in it will be cut off and perish;
    And the third part will be left remaining in it.
    And I will bring the third part through the fire;
    And I will refine them as silver is refined,
    And test them as gold is tested.
    They will call on my name,
    And I will answer them.
    I will say, ‘They are my people,’
    And they will say, ‘Jehovah is our God.’”


    • <~~Ignore the stupid dot! ;)
    Wouldn't you think that the fact the bowl is poured out on the throne is significant? I connect the fifth bowl with the fifth trumpet, and the rising of the beast out of the abyss. Remember the fifth trumpet is when the abyss is opened, and if it's true the bowls match the trumpets, then the pouring out on the throne would be the loss of power that it's given by the dragon in Rev 13, when it says the dragon gave it it's throne.

    I also connect this moment to Dan 7:11b "I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire."

    To me it seems the fifth bowl is the loss of the beasts power given to it by the dragon, then the fifth trumpet it comes up from the ashes, and the armies are gathered together for the final war.

    Good point, and this reminds me of Moses and Arron's connection to the two witnesses. As the two witnesses begin their work, the unfaithful slaves no doubt will feel the ulcers and pain.

    I see the river as that of Babylon's. Keep in mind it's the river Euphrates, which of course ran through Babylon, therefore this should denote having an effect on Babylon the Great, for it's not long after she goes down.
     

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