The Image of the Wild Beast

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by Joshuastone7, Jan 25, 2016.

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Rev 18:23 "No light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; for your merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, and by your spiritistic practices all the nations were misled."

    Rev 13:14 "It misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that it was permitted to perform in the sight of the wild beast;"

    The signs the second beast performs are spiritistic practices, which seems to translate right into the next sentence in Rev 13:14; "while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image." It appears that the first part of verse 14 is telling us the signs it's permitted to perform is the image, and these are tied together.

    Now this all comes back to coming against the holy ones, look at this;

    Rev 13:14b "so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast.."

    And then cross reference;

    Rev 13:6-7 "And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God to blaspheme his name and his dwelling place, even those residing in heaven. It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them."

    So here we have the signs of the fire from heaven of the second beast representing the misleading of the nations, and the coming against the holy people also representative of the first trumpet.

    Therefore the image of the beast is the words used in blaspheme against the holy people. Said another way, the image the beast sets up is how it misleads the nations by causing the fire to come down onto the faithful of Gods in blaspheme against the holy people. Again, this image is the spiritistic practices against the will of God, but in accord with Satan's system.

    This image is what is used to bring down the holy people, the image is how they come against them, it is the blaspheme.
     
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    Frank Conger

    Frank Conger Guest

    School me!
     
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    Frank Conger

    Frank Conger Guest

    I've got Rev. 18 down my man. Just see it different than you do, that's all.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Because if the merchants complain that there is no one left to buy what they are selling, then the only people who are buying or selling are in Babylon the Great........

    Think about that.
     
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    Frank Conger

    Frank Conger Guest

    There is going to be a huge destruction of Babylon, which is the world system of economics, politics, and religion. The dollar is dying as a means of exchange. They are just waiting until the East can handle the necessary transcations through their system before they fully bring down the western system. When they do the west will not have any money to buy anything, as dollars will be near worthless. If the West collapses what do you think happens to the east? They go into a huge downturn if only temporary. That's what the merchant's are talking about. But, also all the people will recieve some form of ID in order to buy or sell on a personal level. People with faith in general will not take the mark but some with weak faith might. Then the tribulation when Satan brings down the hammer and tries to identify God's people who are everyone who is in a salvation covenant up to the Bride of Christ. People who are not part of a salvation covenant will be called on to help Christ's brothers at that time and will have to put their life in peril to do so. This is a love test and may even be a faith test for those whose faith has faltered. God's people Joshua are all over the world and are not just Jehovah's Witnesses. JW's was the storehouse for the first new covenant saints, Jesus Bride, but the angels are the harvesters of the crops, those with faith and those with love. These types of people are everywhere and when Jehovah says through Jesus to "get out of her my people" he means all his people including the faithful ones in the Watchtower, not just them exclusively. Watch and wonder my brother and see it happen before your very eyes.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Never mind...
     
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    Frank Conger

    Frank Conger Guest

    Do you think that only people that believe in God the way that Jehovah's Witnesses do are the ones that will be saved out of the great tribulation, are they the "Great Crowd" of JW's? Is that it? Be honest!
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Only people who believe in true nature of God will live for ever, no Trinitarian will, they worship a false god.

    Not difficult to understand.
     
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    Frank Conger

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    You are so naive Joshua and you sell Jehovah's love and mercy way short.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    So the worship of false gods is okay to you. Jehovah sees it differently, you really do not understand the Bible.
     
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    Frank Conger

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    When Jehovah chose Abraham as his friend and the man who through all the earth would be blessed Jehovah looked passed the fact that he was an idolater who was brought up in an idolatrous family. He looked at his heart and his potential, not what he was at that moment. Jehovah knew what Abram could be given the right circumstances. You don't think there are people all over the world that given the right circumstances couldn't come to know and love Jehovah? They are everywhere and some of them are atheist's, agnostics, Jews, Islamist's, Buddhists, and every other religion and belief. Some people have grown up under conditions that you and I would have a hard time even imagining. Jehovah judges them forever because they didn't become a JW or believe like JW's believe about God. If that's what you believe Joshua, I feel very sorry for you. You have completely missed the lessons that Jesus attempted to teach you about his Father. Jesus name means "Jehovah IS Salvation"! Not he likes salvation but he "IS" Salvation. He will teach all these unfortunate ones living today with the smallest of faith or the smallest of love to come to know him during the Kingdom. Yes, there are wicked who will not listen, but there are oh so many who would jump at the chance to live like God wants them to live, if they only knew how. Wake up Joshua. If God doesn't have a wife, why does Jesus cause he told us himself "I only do what I see my Father doing". You may try to ignore it, but one day you will know it and believe it. Mark my words my brother. You sell God's love and mercy way short. He is Love and He is Salvation
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    This really isn't that difficult Frank. Was Abraham a person of God before knowing him???? This has nothing to do with JW's, being one or not, get that threw your head. Every person on here has told you that and you still blabber about it. Your like an old senile women who can't see past their own nose so repeat themselves in a conversation that others are ten steps ahead of you on.

    Please don't hijack threads you have no understanding of...
     
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    Frank Conger

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    Who are the great crowd Joshua and where do they come from? Are they all people who believe about God the way you do? Please inform a slow dumb fool like me.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    You know nothing of what others believe, what you do is spout out what you think they believe and that leaves you wrong. You also either do not read others full posts or you simply can't remember what others believe.

    I will explain to you one more time in the most simplest way possible.

    I believe the WTS will go down, gone, never to be seen again, non-existent.

    Then I believe years later a call to rebuild spiritual Jerusalem will come. This will be his true holy place made up of the true brothers of Christ still on earth.

    I believe it's at that point that people will be gathered into the great crowd, from all over the world, out of every religion or country on the planet.

    Then I believe Jesus is enthroned.

    Then an angel gives the whole world a message of ever lasting good news. That's the message to the whole world before the end.

    Then I believe you either support Gods kingdom, or you support Satan's system. You will either enter the NW, or you will die.

    Then during the 1000 years all these survivors will get to learn the true nature of God.

    Then after the 1000 years anyone who goes against Gods will will perish. And yes you must worship God in truth, if you worship false gods you will perish. If at the end of the 1000 years you think God is a trinity, your gone, for ever...

    You've obviously never read my work or simply don't understand it...
     
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    Frank Conger

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    Now that's more like it. I can dare say Joshua, you have never expressed this that I have ever seen. I like that explanation better than anything I have seen you write before. We are not so far apart as it once seemed. Nice post and thanks for making it easy for me to understand, I appreciate that. So, you don't actually have to know that true nature of God to be saved, right? you have 1000 years to learn his true nature, right?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm not the judge, all I know is the WTS understanding of who is saved is wrong. You don't have to be a JW to be saved, JW's will have been long gone by the time Jesus is actually enthroned. I have said this many times, and so has everyone else on the board, nothing new.

    During that gathering in the time of the end the "true knowledge will become abundant", so many will start to learn the true nature of God, but will some enter the kingdom without a clear picture, of course, but will trinitarians survive the end of the 1000 years? No...
     
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    Barry

    Barry New Member

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    John 17:3 "This means everlasting life,+ their coming to know you,* the only true God,+ and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."

    I think this scripture is rather clear. To be able to get everlasting life, we need to know God. So how can it be said that people who believe in the trinity or other false belief or atheists, would know God?
     
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    Frank Conger

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    The real getting to know Jehovah will happen during the 1000 years of the Kingdom. There will not be any room for any teaching but what is the truth. If falsehood starts to creep in, it will be removed very quickly. The Kingdom will not be a democracy, I think I can guarantee that. Decent will be treated like cancer and the instruments for detecting it's presence will be very discriminating. After the Tower of Babel, Jehovah confused the languages of the people and spread them according to language into the nations that exist today through a slow process. So, we can assume that that is Jehovah's way. He does not like huge organizations that can be corrupted easily, he prefers smaller sized units which can be kept seperate. This way, if corruption does start, it can be cut out before it affects the whole.

    I think in the Kingdom, although we will be under "one King, Jesus" that the earth will be subdivided into smaller groups that can be managed more effectively that one large conglomerate can be.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Agreed -- but the question of "when" do they come to know God is relevant, as Frank was hinting at with Abraham.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    In Joshua's defense, this has been his framework (and JWs LOL) for years.

    I'm not sure many JWs understand what they actually believe ;)

    We're far closer to a loose "universal salvation" than the mainstream churches.

    Even the more fringe churches similar to JWs, like 7th day, believe that God will judge mankind in large swaths condemning to destruction or paradise in the blink of an eye.

    Just like the Jews, we're too quick to judge Jehovah as unfeeling or uncaring.
     

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