The Stars of Heaven Fall

Discussion in 'Bible Prophecy' started by Joshuastone7, Oct 31, 2016.

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Stars falling from heaven are spoken of in many places of the Bible. While stars can represent the physical suns in our universe, specifically when falling to earth these stars represent angels in scripture, whether they be those on the side of Gods kingdom, or not.

    Let's look at a few examples;

    Dan 8:10 "It grew so great that it reached all the way to the army of the heavens, and it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it trampled them down."

    There we see stars spoken of as ones who are associated with Gods kingdom, for the army is that of Gods army and the stars those of Christs brothers who the small horn comes against.

    Then we have a vision of the dragon who drags a third of the angels in heaven down to the earth;

    Rev 12:3 "A great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and on its heads seven diadems; and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth."

    Ish 14:12 "How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!" (NIV)

    We also have Jesus words that stars would be falling to earth in the time of the end;

    Mth 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken."

    Mrk 13:25 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken."

    Which seems to be an indicator of Christs brothers falling when the final king attacks Christs remaining brothers on earth;

    Rev 6:12,13 "And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the entire moon became as blood, and the stars of heaven fell to the earth as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind drops its unripe figs."

    We also have a star that fell from heaven to the earth that plays a role in the Revelation vision;

    Rev 8:10 "The third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning like a lamp fell from heaven, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters. The name of the star is Wormwood."

    It may not be a stretch to consider the star in the fifth trumpet to be that same as the third;

    Rev 9:1 "The fifth angel blew his trumpet. And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth, and the key to the shaft of the abyss was given to him."

    We find Christ Jesus holding stars representing angels of the congregations;

    Rev 1:20 "As for the sacred secret of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars mean the angels of the seven congregations, and the seven lampstands mean the seven congregations."

    And the women;

    Rev 12:1 "Then a great sign was seen in heaven: A woman was arrayed with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of 12 stars."

    So does this tell us that the star that falls from heaven that is called wormwood is one of those stars in Christ Jesus hand? This star is described as a lamp just as the stars in Christ Jesus hand are described as lampstands. Could this star or lampstand be that of Laodicea, or one of the seven churches? The star called wormwood falls on the springs of water making them bitter, just as the description of the water being spewed out of our lords mouth that is lukewarm in Laodicea.

    Rev 3:16 "So because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth."

    Rev 9:1 "The fifth angel blew his trumpet. And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth,"
     
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    SingleCell

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    Let's assume you are correct, the Wormwood star is the "final church".

    The first one blew his trumpet. And there was hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was hurled to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green vegetation was burned up


    - hail / fire blood, what do these mean? Literal? Doubtful.
    - the subject / context is the earth
    - 1/3 of the "earth/trees" burned, and ALL the "green vegetation"

    "earth/trees", is this the nations?

    "green vegetation", is this Christians - the judgment beginning with God's house, through fire?

    The second angel blew his trumpet. And something like a great mountain burning with fire was hurled into the sea. And a third of the sea became blood; and a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were wrecked.

    - the great mountain -- is this the 7th kingdom? Or is this the Christian church en total?
    - "sea" = common man, so 1/3 die, or "became blood" ... what does that mean?
    - 1/3 of the living creatures ... are these Christians, 1/3 are stumbled permanently? (spiritual death)
    - 1/3 of the ships ... are these the churches which are spiritually wrecked? Jesus in a boat with the apostles saw other boats!

    "The third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning like a lamp fell from heaven, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters. The name of the star is Wormwood. And a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the people died from the waters, because these had been made bitter"


    - "lamp" does seem to indicate one of the 7 churches, which gives cause to conclude that the 7 churches are a timeline, and not contemporaneous (Laodicea as you mentioned)
    - Again with the 1/3, but this time the "water" of spiritual knowledge is poisoned, and many people are stumbled into spiritual death
    - the water is bitter, sounds like ... Pharisee teaching...


    As-to the 7 churches, why do the first set all include a warning that Jesus would come to them "if they don't listen" to his discipline.

    Why do the last group of churches not include this warning?
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    This is an easy one... :)

    Zech 13:9 "And I will bring the third part through the fire; And I will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, And I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people,’ And they will say, ‘Jehovah is our God."

    The third in the first four trumpets are all those that are refined by the fire not only from the wheelworks in Eziekiel that is tossed over the city, but that fire that is tossed down from heaven by the second beast of Rev 13, the little horn.

    These are the ones refined and groaning over the things going on in Jerusalem at this time, it's the bowls that fall on those who have the mark of the beast. A third of current worshipers of Jehovah will make it through the coming judgement on his house.

    Eze 10:2 "Then he said to the man clothed in linen: “Enter between the wheelwork, under the cherubs, and fill both your hands with burning coals from between the cherubs and toss them over the city.”

    Rev 13:13 "And it performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind."

    Rev 3:18 "I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may become dressed and that the shame of your nakedness may not be exposed, and eyesalve to rub in your eyes so that you may see."

    Notice Jesus words to Laodicea also include keeping their outer garments in rev 3:18, this is the same warning to those in the time of the end when our lord comes to inspect his church.

    Rev 16:15 “Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one who stays awake and keeps his outer garments, so that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness.”

    Therefore it would appear that this church will be present when the inspection takes place.

    Absolutely, the vegetation is the kings crop.

    Amos 7:1 "This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah showed me: Look! He formed a locust swarm when the late crop was beginning to come up. This was the later crop after the king’s hay had been cut."

    Also keep in mind that Amos 7:1 also plays into the fifth bowl and the locusts there when this same star "wormwood" gains the key to the abyss, after the first crop had been cut "Laodicea" and the second crop began to grow "the call to rebuild Jerusalem". (Dan 9) The locust swarm must be the same in Amos 7 as Rev 8.

    The mountain is the mountain of God, or his earthly kingdom, just as we see Jesus transfigured on top of the mountain depicting the earthly kingdom.

    The mountain comes down in the end;

    Zech 4:7 "Who are you, O great mountain? Before Ze·rubʹba·bel you will become a level land. And he will bring out the top stone amid shouts of: “How wonderful! How wonderful!”’

    Then after that the temple and Jerusalem (spiritual) begins to be rebuilt in the end;

    Ish 2:2 "In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains,"


    It seems highly likely the star that shines as a lamp that falls is Laodicea that Christ Jesus spews out of his mouth when that star falls, that being the mountain of God. (Zech 4:7)

    Very good questions, do the churches represent consecutive representations over time, churches existing all at one moment? I need to do more research, but this connection of the seventh being that one that falls in the time of the end may be the key...
     
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    SingleCell

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    Agreed with that entire section!

    In this case, we have options; the people cry for the "mountains" to cover them from Jehovah and the lamb.

    So this could be the mountain of Jehovah, or the mountain of man, right? If mountain of man, this is the present system death-stroke?

    Agreed, that seems to be the interpretation.

    I believe it is "ages" of the Christian system.

    Proof for that being Jesus stating to the first set that he will come if they reject his discipline.

    But the last set, and Laodicea specifically, IS the one who encounters his return.

    E.G. "threat of early return" -> "actual return, to find blind, naked and poor lukewarm Christians" who are convinced otherwise
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Keep in mind the context in which the word mountain is used in Rev 6:16 "And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rocks: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb,"

    Clearly these ones are not part of the mountain of God because these ones are doomed who are trusting in this mountain, and the use of plural for shows a multitude of mountains.

    Now we should keep in mind that the mountain that is described in the second trumpet is going down on fire;

    Rev 8:8 "a great mountain burning with fire was hurled into the sea."

    Therefore this cannot be any part of the mountains described just before the great war, but tied into the fire over the city, that fire that refines the people of God.

    Zech 13:9 "And I will bring the third part through the fire; And I will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, And I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people,’ And they will say, ‘Jehovah is our God."

    It become clearer and clearer the first four trumpets and bowls deal with the house of God, the trumpets being those refined and the bowls those with the mark.

    It's the last three that are woes to the world...
     
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    SingleCell

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    Not necessarily; and here is why:

    The death-stroke event produces the refining fire.

    So here we have a "mountain" (just referenced Rev 6 as an example, not correlating the events), burning with fire hurled in the "sea" of mankind.

    Perhaps trumpet 1 is the "sudden destruction", trumpet 2 is the death-stroke, and from that we get the "fire" of testing / refining, and rise of the 8th king.

    Agreed, the language of the "effect" pertains to God's house.

    (The ships on the sea, vegetation, etc.)

    This isn't a violation of the judgment beginning with God's house, but a description of how the judgment begins with God's house initiated by the sudden destruction and death-stroke.

    [just spit-balling]

    Then later, the woes to the nations, because the 8th king and her supporters are judged.
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Okay, let's start here, how do you get this connection? Remember the second beast of Rev 13 causes fire to come down out of heaven, and it is basically the first beast. And the second beast cannot exist before the first, therefor the death stroke is already there before the second beast causes fire from heaven.
     
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    SingleCell

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    Pure speculation to follow:

    1st Trumpet is "sudden destruction", perhaps nuclear, birth-pangs on display; nation vs nation, the clear signs of Matthew 24.

    2nd Trumpet, first beast crashes [death-stroke] -> Second-first beast rises and makes war with the remaining ones of her seed.

    (global government installed here)

    3rd Trumpet -> Stumbling -> 4th Trumpet -> two witnesses killed here ->

    This is the judgment on the house of God (is my argument).

    -----------------------

    The 1260 day period of refinement, to which the 8th king becomes officially guilty.

    (read Habbakuk 1 - 3 for the sequence) and reaps judgment. Trumpets 5 - 7.

    The judgment of the nations complete, Jesus reigns as king.
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    What if that's not what happens first, what if the first thing is the judgement on the house of God?

    What if the beast goes down and the 8th king rises only 450 days before the new world?

    Dan 7:11:12 "I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant words that the horn was speaking; I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire. But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season."

    360+90=450

    What if the fire in the first trumpet is all about the fire from heaven from the second beast of Rev 13, and the fire from the wheel works of Ezekiel, and the refining of Gods people by fire?

    What if the beginning of the end begins with the judgement on the house of God?

    1Pt 4:17 "For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?"
     
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    SingleCell

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    That is actually my point; the sudden destruction initiates the judgment on God's house.

    Trumpet 1 - 4 (on this view) would be the judgment of God's house coinciding with the setup of the 8th king.

    Then, after the beast has been used (exactly like Assyria and Babylon were) THEY are judged via Trumpet 5 - 7.

    Recall both the nations and God's own household are overtaken "out of the blue".
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    The problem with that is the day counts. If the beast goes down only 450 days before all the beasts are removed, that means that will be well after the 1260 days start.
     
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    SingleCell

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    Precisely :)

    Which "resurrects" our 3+ year old argument about death-stroke vs death :)

    LOLOLOL; remember this is where we basically left off the discussion?

    Well, now I have more fuel to add to the fire with this version of the trumpets!!
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    You'll have to remind me brother... Death-stroke vs death?
     
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    SingleCell

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    My perspective was that the death-stroke initiates the conclusion. (which I just realized is what I'm arguing for here ...)

    Our break-point came over this verse:

    "The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction."

    - Rev 17:8a

    I read that as correlating with Rev 13 "death-stroke -> out of abyss as 8th king -> sometime later total destruction.

    I believe your perspective was "abyss" -> destruction immediately, and death-stroke was a separate event not included in the verse.

    So I guess what I'm saying is:

    Trumpets 1 - 4 = judgment of God's house, initiated by death-stroke and rise of 8th king (judgment by "Assyria")

    Trumpets 5 - 7 = judgment of 8th king (and those who side with it)
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Partially correct, I see the first beast of Rev 13 as coming from the sea, while it is that beast that goes into and out of the abyss later. That sounds obvious, but what I say is the beast comes out of the sea as a result of the healed death stroke, and that beast in that state goes into the abyss and out. The entire beast, not just one head. There actually is nothing to connect the death stroke in Rev 13 to the abyssing other then speculation. After all ones from the sea, the other from the abyss, and just the fact that Rev 17 says "the beast you saw" will go into the abyss. How did John see the beast? It already had a healed death stroke. He never saw the beast before the death stroke that was healed. Therefore it had to have already had the death stroke when he saw it go into the abyss.

    What I believe is there are 2300 days total of the time of the end. The 2300 days start with the first trumpet, the little horns hurling of denunciations.

    965 days later the constant feature goes down starting the 1260 days.

    777 days after that the call to rebuild spiritual Jerusalem comes starting the 69 weeks till Christ.

    Then 450 days before the last day of this world the beast goes into the abyss (I believe the death stroke was healed in 325CE).

    The four winds are held back till the end of the 1260 days. (The four winds being the wars)

    Then 45 days later the disgusting thing is placed.

    Then 30 days later the first day of the new world.

    Therefore I don't believe there will be any wars till some five years after the end begins. I believe the trumpets and bowls are the same, and the seals come after.

    The beast isn't even abyssed till the fifth trumpet and bowl; Rev 16:10 "The fifth one poured out his bowl on the throne of the wild beast. And its kingdom became darkened, and they began to gnaw their tongues because of their pain."
     
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    SingleCell

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    OK, so let's put on our thinking caps. Pardon me if I'm missing something, which I suppose, is a given :)

    In trumpet #2 we have an undefined mountain "on fire" being thrown into the sea, right?

    (rev 8)

    In the death-stroke we have a "beast" rising up out of the sea, with a head wound that was healed, right?

    (rev 13)

    In the abyss'ing of the "wild beast" it WAS NOT and then IT WAS to the amazement of the world, right?

    (rev 17), and so we're on the same page, from Rev 17 immediately after the beast comes out of the abyss:

    (the people of the world) "will be amazed when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present."



    Isn't this grounds to connect the events, at least by way of speculation?

    Rev 13 -> death-stroke healed -> world wonders after the beast

    Rev 17 -> abyss ascending -> world wonders after the beast

    And in Rev 8, during the initiation of the conclusion, we have a "mountain on fire" thrown into the sea.

    Three objects seem to be going into, or coming out of, the sea; are they the same object, or three different objects?
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    The mountain falls into the sea, and the beast in Rev 13 comes from the sea, but the beast in Rev 17 comes from the abyss. You say three are associated with the sea?

    I understand that just about everyone I know thinks the abyssing happened at the death stroke of Rev 13 but through the chronology I've just been able to determine it's not possible, and it takes the entire Bible to point that out, but I can throw out paradoxes that show some of the side effects.

    First, the beast comes from the sea with the death stroke, this is not the abyss which the beast comes from in Rev 17, clearly two different places.

    If you have the fifth bowl poured out on the throne of the wild beast, then how is that tied to the second trumpet?

    You have an event in Dan 7 that the beast goes down and the rest of the beasts are prolonged for 450 days. Yet we know the two witnesses preach for 1260 days.

    You have the chronology of Dan 11 saying that the constant feature comes down first, then not till later is the final battle when North wins over South.

    And I would say that the wording in Rev 13 says they worship the beast, but the wording in Rev 17 says the are amazed when it is alive again. Can you connect those two? Is there a direct connection such as we found in the star and lamp of Laodicea?

    The death stroke to one of the heads, who is the only head in Revelation to be seen alive, isn't it Babylon? If Babylon is the only one of the seven heads mentioned alive in Rev, and seen riding the beast before it goes into the abyss, doesn't that mean the healed head in Rev 13 is Babylon?
     
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    SingleCell

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    You might be right about that ... however, the context of Rev 17 is the prostitute sitting on "many waters", who is riding the wild beast which came up out of the water.

    “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues."


    But they both come up out of the "sea" and "abyss" healed, right?

    "I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea"

    "wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss"

    Two places by symbolic language, yes; but two different places? I'm not sure that is clear.

    The 5th bowl would be the judgement of the wild beast. This would be the "goes off into destruction" from Rev 17.

    Where-as the 2nd trumpet is the "death-stroke", initiating the formation of the 8th king; two different events.

    7th head/king on fire hurled into sea (rev 8 - death-stroke event), 8th king ascends out of sea healed (rev 13 - death-stroke healed, ascends as 8th), and it "was" but "is not" and yet "will be" (rev 17 - death-stroke healed, ascends as 8th)

    I'm not sure I understand the problem here, can you explain further bro?

    Should subtle word variation invalidate the highly similar concepts though?

    "will be amazed when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present."

    "And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it."

    Notice that the judgment for their "amazement" and "worship" is exactly the same:


    "And the inhabitants of the earth—those whose names have not been written in the scroll of life" (rev 17)

    "from the founding of the world, not one of their names has been written in the scroll of life" (rev 13)


    In both chapters we have a beast go into a state of "non existence", and when it "ascends" from non existence, the world "worships" and is "amazed" at the resurrected beast, with the EFFECT of having their name removed from the book of life!

    I don't see a clear indication that it's Babylon; if anything, it makes sense that it's the "iron and clay" Roman empire derivative, since we can correlate Daniel 2's statue. The Wild Beast does have an attribute of Babylon / Greece / Persia though, is that what you mean?
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Yes they are the same entity, but I believe the mouth of the lion in the first beast of Rev 13 is Babylon the great, the head of the beast, or riding it. And it is Babylon that was the death stroke that was healed.

    You see, the main reason the final battle between north and south cannot occur till after the 1260 days begin are twofold. First off Dan 11... You see in verse 31 we see the constant feature being removed, and are told it is that same entity that will put in place the disgusting thing, even though it will be 1290 days later. We know this from Dan 12:11 that there are 1290 days in between the constant feature being removed and the disgusting thing being placed.

    Now, if you read on in Dan 11 from verse 31 you see the events that will occur directly after the constant feature is removed when the two witnesses are preaching that mirrors the scripture in Dan 12 discussing knowledge will become abundant.

    Dan 11:33 "And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many."

    Dan 12:3,4 "And those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever. “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant."

    During the time the two witnesses depart understanding to the "many" (spiritual Israel) the final battle is seen in Dan 11:40-43. That final battle when the king of north finally wins over the king of the south is the moment the 7th king becomes the 8th king, when democracy losses over to Fascism. This is the moment of the 8th king, after the constant feature falls.

    You see in Rev 13 that beast comes against the constant feature after the deathstroke is healed.

    The next issue you have is the 450 days of Dan 7. You cannot have that be the moment of the final destruction of the beast, to much stuff happens after that moment.

    You stated you saw the fifth bowl as the final destruction of the beast, but in the 6th trumpet and bowl you have the gathering together of all nations to come against God at Armageddon. You see, this is actually the moment the 8th king is gathered together. This is after the abyssing in the fifth bowl. You can't have the nations living on and fighting, and gathering together if the final destruction of the beast had past.

    The only way the chronology works without paradoxes is to say the 450 days when the rullerships are taken away of the other beasts of Dan 7 is the moment their rullerships are given away when they give their powers to the 8th king.

    Dan 7:12 "But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season."

    Rev 17:13 "These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast."

    You see, the beasts live on after that beast goes down in Dan 7. Which means that beast going down in Dan 7 is the final battle when the 8th king rises.

    If the moment their rullerships are taken away is the same moment they give their power and authority to the 8th king, that means there will be 450 days the 8th king will rule, and that would be well after the 1260 days begin. Therefore the first thing to happen is the fall of the constant feature, not a war....... Do you see?

    That would mean we are not looking for a bomb or the US to fall next, we are literally looking for the end to begin with the judgement on the house of God.

    1Pet 4:17 "For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?"


    They don't both come out healed. Only one head was healed in Rev 13, there is no talk of any of the other heads having had taken a blow. Only one city, not the whole beast. That beast comes out of the sea at that moment of it's birth, it did not exist before the healed deathstroke. When it was created it was created with one of its heads having been healed, one......

    Now that same entire beast goes into the abyss and out in Rev 17, a completely different place, there is no way to connect the sea and the abyss, one is mankind, the other death. The entire beast goes into the abyss in Rev 17, while only one head is seen to have had been healed at its creation from the sea in Rev 13.

    You see in Rev 13 that first beast comes against Gods people after the healed deathstroke, that means the healed deathstroke must be before the 1260 days begin, but yet the final battle between north and south when north finally wins is not till after the 1260 days begin according to Dan 11:30-43. Clearly the king of the north comes against Gods people before the final battle when the king of the north finally wins over the king of the south in Dan 11 and becomes the ruling 8th power, the final one. That means the start of the 1260 days must be in between the healed deathstorke and the final battle when the 8th king arises.

    Therefore when the first beast of Rev 13 comes against Gods people it must be the beginning of the 1260 days but the other beasts who give their power away do so only 450 days before the last day of this world, therefore there is no other choice but to say that the healed deathstroke occurred before the 1260 days begin, and the abyssing occurs after the 1260 days begin.

    We have to separate the two, because it is the only way there are no longer any paradoxes.

    This cannot be because there are too many events after. You have the gathering of nations together to the war after the 5th bowl, you have the 7th bowl and trumpet when the sacred secret is brought to a finish, let alone the battle at Armageddon, the 8th king has to survive to that to battle God.

    There are similar wording because they are the same entity and same people, but certainly not exact enough wording to say they are the same moment, quite the contrary. One being before it goes into the abyss and the other after it comes out. That changes nothing as to saying they are different moments. That is a non-issue as for chronology, being they are the same entity, just at different moments.

    You may remember that I have come to believe that the 7 times of Dan 4 are from the Tower of Babel until 325 CE and the building of the Basilica, but mainly Babylon is the only city that once existed of the seven in Rev 13 that is shown alive after it fell, therefore just by saying that it must be the only answer. None of the other cities are mentioned as existing in the time of the end, after we know they were destroyed other then Babylon.

    Rev 18:10 "Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!"
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    I'm really glad you brought this up.

    Trumpet #1, the "hail", see Ezekiel where the "false prophecy" white-washed wall is taken down by hail:

    With "hailstones in destructive fury. I will tear down the wall that you plastered with whitewash and bring it down to the earth, and its foundation will be exposed" - Ezekiel 13:13b-14a ... "The prophets of Israel are gone"

    So Trumpet #1, perhaps the "sudden destruction" which initiates the "death-stroke" is the "hail" which tears down Jehovah's Witnesses 1914 framework. "there can't be a WW3" ... wrong.

    "The first one blew his trumpet. And there was hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was hurled to the earth"

    - Rev 8:7a
     

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