Thinkings thoughts

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Thinking, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. 2,733
    984
    113
    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Messages:
    2,733
    Likes Received:
    984
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Here is something to think about. If the mountains are representative of the Governments, then the rocks would represent all the people that make up those governments. This is similar to the waters representing those who make up Babylon the Great. ( Rev 17:1, 15 ) The people expect their government to save them from the catastrophes coming upon them. Examples: Storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, diseases, plagues, etc.

    Hmmmm. Like the coronavirus? World wide???
     
  2. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Yep!...I didn’t want to be the first one to mention the V word:eek:.....meetings are being cancelled and assemblies ..field service...yippeeee..haha...and evening the memorial in lots of places...who knows which way this is going to go????thinking of you all....xx
    I’ll look up that rocks bit...but your probably right...
     
  3. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
  4. 2,733
    984
    113
    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Messages:
    2,733
    Likes Received:
    984
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Add this to the end of my post of Oct 9, 2018 under Apologetics - Defending our Faith Page 7, #138

    When we study the Bible, it is necessary to understand that the Bible interprets itself. We just have to remember that fact. This is especially true when reading letters of prophesy. They are given in what is called “signs”, or sign language. This can sometimes be confusing. “Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say,‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” ( Lu 17:20-21 NKJV ) Here is why it is necessary to understand the original language. Where the translation uses the word “within you”, it should say “in your midst”, or “among you”. That is because the King of the kingdom was there; present, in person.

    The other Greek word, which is used in the vision given to John, was semeion ( signs ). The word used in Luke is parateresis ( par-at-ay’-ray-sis ). It comes from the root word paratereo ( par-at-ay-reh’-o ), meaning: to stand beside and watch, to watch assiduously, observe carefully. In other words, to see it as it happens. The vision given to John was in the future ( a prophesy); and was given in signs which are to be interpreted as having a meaning to the objects.

    Let’s look at another “sign”, to see if we can understand what it means. “The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;” ( Rev 6: 14-16 NASB )

     
    thinking likes this.
  5. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
  6. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
    2 Peter 3:10-13
    But Jehovah’s day will come as a their in which the heavens will pass away with a roar but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved and earth and the works in it will be EXPOSED.
    Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way consider what sort of people you ought to be in acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion.As you wait and keep close in mind the presence of the the day of Jehovah through wi h the heavens will be destroyed in flames and the elements will melt in the intense heat. But there are a new heavens and A new earth that we are waiting according to his promise and in these righteousness is to dwell.

    Below I will write what Russell wrote in his extended Biblical commentaries
    1879-1916
    You can get this amazing and encouraging book from Chicago Bible Students via on line ordering.
    He discusses in detail each word.or words...I won’t write everything he writes...just the main points..
    2 Peter 3:10
    BUT:::::::(Russell) zealous for our growth in the Knowledge Peter endeavours to inspire us thereto by calling attention to the wonderfull events and close proximity of the day of the Lord

    THE DAY OF THE LORD::::(Russell) the thousand year day of his presence
    It is the day in which the old order is to perish and the glorious new order is to be ushered in

    WILL COME::::(Russell) Greek word heko ..will arrive..be here..

    THEIF IN THE NIGHT:::(Russell) unobservedly,quietly
    Jesus presence unknown to the world
    The church class will know in advance respecting the Day of the Lord.
    Throughout this entire age the Lords people have been left in uncertainty as to the time of the masters second coming
    As with the Jews in the end of their age they knew not the time of their visitation( Luke 19:44) so it is with the present religious systems
    It will present while some are scoffing and smiting those fellow students who declare the truth

    IN THE WHICH:: (Russell) the great time of trouble follows closely the second coming of Christ
     
  7. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
    THE HEAVENS::(Russell) the symbolic heavens ,,present powers of the air of which of which Satan is the prince of peace
    The great Antichrist system
    The church
    A figurative term for the present religious systems
    Peter describes the great day of wrath intimating that it will start with the nominal church class
    The governments the higher or ruling powers
    The religious systems and principles which At present govern and control mankind
    Ruling powers political,and ecclesiastica founded as they are by upsurption and with tyranny disposition injustice error superstition prejudice and ignorance entering largely into their foundations.
    Perhaps we have neglected the fact that great Babylon apparently is dealt with before the world trouble comes. To expect the worlds great trouble to begin Oct 1914 would be to expect astounding things.

    SHALL PASS AWAY:: Russell...to be supplanted by the new heavens and the new earth
    Meaning nothing more than a change of dispensation
    Only a change of dispensation attended with great national destruction

    WITH A GREAT NOISE..(Russell) ..a great hissing noise Great disruption confusion
    A great commotion a great disturbance
    Tulmut and confusion
    At the second coming of our Lord
    Already the noise and tulmult wi h shall eventuate in world wide anarchy are distinctly heard in every nation for the Day of the Lord has indeed begun and the heat of human passion is growing daily
    With a rushing sound as escaping steam that must obey the decisive action of the fever-ant heat

    AND THE ELEMENTS ....RUSSELL....compomant parts
    Of present Ecclesiasticism
    The present orders of things
    Of society
    Of tyranny ignorance and superstition
    The various parties of sects composing it split and torn by discordant views
     
  8. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
    The capital element and the labour element will seek to burn the other up
    We see the capitalistic element and the la our element separating one from the other
    The fire will devour the capitalist banking political religious and industrial elements
    The fire will extend to the social structure. The social political religious system together make up our present order.

    SHALL MELT::(Russell) the social fabric ,
    The melting down will begin with the overthrow of the religious institution
    The fire will effect the social and industrial organisations merchandise capital and labour,society
    Disintergrate into it various elements
    The nations of the world will go down quickly
    In the feverancy of the heat and strife of that time

    WITH THE FEVERANT HEAT ...Russell....the heat of public discussion and investigation
    Discussion tumult and strife
    Human passion and strife
    In the bitterness of that time of selfish strife the elements will no longer blend and coalace as before
     
  9. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
    REV.17
    NO MAN MIGHT..(Russell) fulfilled when because of Union the alliance will be able to say.We have aposostolic authority to preach .Let no one speak unless he has our sanction.
    The time is hastening on when religious social political and financial boycott will be waged against all who will refuse to worship either the beast or its Protestanant image
    Prohibiting or forbidding the free exchange of truth to those who do not recognize these systems
    May not this statement mean still more and imply that a time will come in the last days in which sound doctrine will not be endured at all
    It would not be surprising if a strong government would some day replace this republic and one common standard of religious belief be deemed expedient to teach outside of which will be treated and punished as a political offence
    Laws maybe expected gradually curtailing personal liberty under the plea of necessity eventuating in the formulation of some simple law of religion thus implementing church and state in governing the United States Of America
    Though those who say a confederacy a union will succeed and cause a night to come wherein no man can work except those who worship the beast or his image yet the truth will eventually triumph .
     
  10. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
    REV 6:17...DAY OF HIS WRATH
    (Russell)...a period of time during which the Gospel and Millennial ages lap
    The way In Which the dispensation will be effected
    A natural consequence of the transfer of authority and ruler ship from the devil to Christ .
    The great day of trouble coming- the Day of Jehovah
    The day of the Lord is Darkness and not Light Amos 5:8
    And the nations were angry and thy wrath come Rev 11:18
    I will over throw the throne of the kingdoms and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen nations Hag 2:22
    A day of trouble and distress a day of waste ness and desolation a day of darkness and gloominess Zeph 1:15
    In which the world will have an illustration of its own money mad condition
    Gods wrath will continue to it completion- Anarchy

    IS COME
    Russell....those who could not see the Lords presence from the scriptures will learn from the transpiring events
    We are in the testing time when in the church every mans faith and works are to be tested so as by fire.

    WHO SHALL BE ABLE
    (Russell)..who may abide the day of his coming and who shall stand when he appeared
    He that have clean hands and a pure heart
    The very elect Math 24:24 will not be deceived
    The holy sanctified in Jesus
    Those who habitation is the Lord
    None but the faithful because the Lord will purposely make the test so server so as to sift out all others
    A thousand shall fall at thy side PS 91:7
    The inspection will be so crucial as to test all the saints

    TO STAND
    .(Russell ) the hour of temptation which shall come upon the whole world
     
  11. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
    REV 7:1
    Russell,,,agents
    HOLDING
    (RUSSELL) Gods hand of restraint
    Miraculous hindering
    Preventing the conflict
    The present World War has been held back for 40 years to favour bible study
    God has been holding the people’s of the earth more or less under restraint .otjerwise they would have destroyed themselves long ago.
    The winds of war are being held under the Lords direction until the harvest message has sealed all of Gods saints.
    The great time of trouble is held in check by divine power until the completion of the harvest work.
    That they shall not blow down the earth to its injury until all of Gods elect church shall have been sealed on their foreheads
    When the restraint is withdrawn they will rush together and the result will be a whirlwind
    The letting loose suddenly of the fallen angels will account well for the suddenness of the coming trouble.
    A great cataclysm with will result in the complete overthrow of the social order and anarchy.
    God is now letting loose the winds of strife .
    He is letting nations take their own course, in order to prove to them selves and to others that they are not what they claim to be.
     
  12. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
    THE FOUR WINDS
    (Russell)..the violent winds of war.
    These symbolic winds represent strife anarchy the creation time of trouble which is held in check by divine power until the completion of the harvest work -the sealing of the living members of the elect class with present truth.
    The great storm of trouble which in the close of this age will suddenly burst upon the whole world of mankind .
    The great time of trouble in which BTG will be cast I to the midst of the sea.
    The winds of war represent the earthquake Elijahs vision represents a great social revolution which will follow the Great War.
    Increasing unrest from increasing knowledge and liberty
    Which will produce the great whirlwind trouble
    Corresponding to the typical whirlwind by which Elijah, prototype of the church was taken away.
    The powers of the air the fallen angels who had been under control of Satan
    The fallen angels will have wonderfull power such as they have never had since the days of the flood and will use it in a very malevolent manner
    THAT THE WIND
    (Russell)..blowing winds seemed to be used in scripture as a symbol for wars.
    SHOULD NOT BLOW
    (Russell)..the wind has not yet been allowed to blow the great storm which they willingly would brew has not been allowed to come to pass and will not be allowed to come to pass until the 144,000 shall have been sealed in their foreheads.
    ON THE EARTH
    (Russell) organised society government,restraint
    To its injury
    When these winds of war shall be let loose it will mean a cataclysm of warfare that shall divide nations
    NOR THE SEA
    (Russell)...the restless turbulent dissatisfied disorganised masses of mankind
    ON ANY TREE
    ( Russell) ..the trees represent the household of faith
    REV7:2 AND I SAW HAVING THE SEAL
    (Russel)..the present truth
    TO WHOM IT WAS GIVEN TO HIRT THE EARTH
    (Russell)..the evil spirits will do all the evil that is in their power and will constitute the trial of all the fallen angels - the lifting of the restraints to see if they will go contrary to The divine will
     
  13. 2,733
    984
    113
    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Messages:
    2,733
    Likes Received:
    984
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Today, there are many Jehovah’s Witnesses that speak badly about Charles Taze Russell. They treat him as if he misled ALL those PEOPLE. He concluded, from his studies of the Bible, that the End Time was near, “at the door”. Some say that if they had been living at that time; they would have realized that it was not the end. Personally, I don’t believe ANY ONE can say that. NO ONE! They have the history recorded for them. Without that history, you would not have had the opportunity to see and understand the consequences.

    YOU likely would have come to the same conclusion, based on the world events that were taking place. Russell was born 9 years before the American Civil War. So, he experienced something that no person living at that time thought this could happen. There were new weapons of war introduced, that had never been used before. There were mobile canons, the Gatling Gun, hand grenades, etc. Of course at that time these were mobile by being drawn by horses. There was the horse Calvary. The automobile had not be invented. Tanks had not been invented. There were no motorized vehicles. There were trains that carried most equipment from city to city. The Transcontinental Railroad was just recently being developed.

    Let’s move forward in time, to 1879. Russell was a young man when he started publishing the Zion’s Watchtower and Herald of Christ’s Presence. Where did he come up with the idea of “Christ’s Presence”? Let’s look at a few things first. When Russell was nine years old, the American Civil War started, and his mother died. He was 62 years old when World War One began in 1914. He died two years later, in 1916, from a urinary tract infection. The worst part of World War One had not begun. What did he experience in those years that he had lived?

    Russell experienced a revolution and almost destruction of what was to become the United States of America. It was a war with weapons never used before. The death of his mother. Then, things seemed to work well, while he learned the Bible and started publishing his lessons. At that time he was 27 years old. Then, again another war. But this time it involved weapons of mass destruction. Again, this was a new type of war. There was no Calvary, no horses, but tanks with machine guns and canons. There were airplanes that dropped bombs. They also had machine guns. Hmmm. Think of this: “The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up. Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.” ( Rev 8:7-8 NKJV )

    These things were never seen before that time. It would be no wonder that Russell would see these events as fulfillment of scripture; especially Revelation. It is rather ironic that he died on Halloween, October 31, 1916.
     
    thinking likes this.
  14. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
    That was very nicely explained Bro T..and I am In Full agreeance to what you have written....
    So much rubbish has been printed about him....and what errors he did make...and he did...he often corrected before his death and those that he did not...showed Jehovah allows errors to go forth In Any given era of time.
    Just as the apostles and kings made very big errors of under standing...at times...

    I love reading his writings... but that doesn’t mean I agree with everything he has written...but I am learning and understanding things I didn’t previously...some things I simply cannot compute...or simply can see he had some things wrong as you say history has shown...
    He wasn’t even dogmatic about 1914...I have read where he says...(you may believe this or ponder over it....or not.....but it is the best chronology I have come up with given and studying biblical dates as thus far I understand them..at this point In Time.)
    In fact some of us have noted some of the spiritual understandings that have been changed have gone back to what he said in the first place...others views have not...

    Jesus didn’t explain everything to the apostles because they would have not been able to bear it....he gave it to them in piece meal...a little at a time...sometimes making things clearer when they were old men And Even when about to die...
    Russell was given only so much Holy Spirit to understand certain things that were ready to be understood in accordance with Jehovah’s great plan......I have no doubt and nor does the GB or society that down thru time certain men were given understandings that suited their era they lived in according to Jehovah’s timeline and plan....
    I do see certain ones Mock Russell or even The GB....the very same hands that fed them vital basic truths.....
    Mocking and joking about these ones are totally different to having...righteous anger or indignation of certain things.....along with righteous anger and indignation must come endurance and patience that revelation speaks of.
    Beroean Study Bible ::: James 1:4
    Allow perseverance to finish its work so that you may mature and complete not lacking anything

    Rev 14:12 NIV
    This calls for patient endurance on the part of my people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus...

    we all stand in soiled filthy clothing before Jehovah...

    Zech 3:3 New American Bible
    Now Joshua was clothed in filthy garments and standing before the angel.

    It seems useless to me to stand in spiritual dirty garments that are full of sin and mock others who we perceive as having dirty spiritual garments..????
    Wouldn’t it be better to at least TRY to endure with patience until Jesus comes back...and show full trust in him to correct what needs to be corrected...
    After all was not the precedent for this already set for us when it was Jesus who took the whip and on Two occasions cleansed his fathers house...whilst the apostles STOOD BEHIND HIM WATCHING and took NO PART...
    They did not mock or jeer...
    Patience is my worst quality so I actually find this hard...but I know it’s right..
    .
    And just in case some who read this think...she has not been hurt by the way the Org is structured and run....or by power hungry elders....I tell you I have had my heart ripped apart...but I can still see it is no reason to let anger and resentment out of control and condemn ourselves by mocking what Jehovah is allowing ...and hurt our fellow brothers and sisters...
    I hope everyone enjoys their Memorial tonight..wether it by by yourself with Jehovah or on Zoom with the Cong
     
  15. 2,733
    984
    113
    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Messages:
    2,733
    Likes Received:
    984
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thank you Sis, Here is where I am at: I didn't know it was the Passover (tomorrow here in the USA.). All that is spoken of here is the Coronavirus, or Covig19. Everyone in our part of the country are under House Arrest/Confined to our homes. Even my children are not allowed to visit. And, according to the org I am not entitled to take the bread or wine. But, at least I can celebrate HIS sacrifice.
     
  16. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
    We are under Quarantine...not quiet lockdown..allowed out for essentials...food...medicine..work..and a walk.
    Hundreds of thousands have lost their employment...small business’s closed..pubs, restaurants and some beaches, houses of worship..etc...no more than two are allowed to gather together...our state borders are in mostly lock down...not all yet.?
    I am in your future...so our memorial tonight after seven...you enjoy your time with Jehovah....but there is a special memorial talk.on JW ORG for those who cannot get out or zoom...
    Who knows when and how all this is going to end.?????....for indeed..as the song says......the times are a changing....;)
     
  17. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
  18. 2,733
    984
    113
    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Messages:
    2,733
    Likes Received:
    984
    Trophy Points:
    113
    While viewing a documentary about the Roman Empire, I found that there was a
    pandemic plague that lasted 15 years, from 165 to 180 AD. It was referred to as
    the Antonine Plague, or also known as the Plague of Galen. These plagues
    eventually brought down the Roman Empire. The Plague devastated the population
    of the Roman Empire, causing the deaths of five million people.

    To learn more about these plagues, go here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonine_Plague and here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Aurelius

    If you have Netflix, watch the documentary series* Roman Empire.
    *there are a lot of series and episodes.:eek: If you have the time, it is worth it.:)
     
    thinking likes this.
  19. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43
  20. 402
    116
    43
    thinking

    thinking Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    43

Share This Page