What is abolished in the Law ?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Utuna, May 30, 2013.

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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Dear all,

    I've been thinking lately about the statements of certain people who pretend that the Law in its entirety was abolished by Jesus' death...

    I don't totally agree with it because :

    "“Look! There are days coming,†is the utterance of Jehovah, “and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; not one like the covenant that I concluded with their forefathers in the day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, ‘which covenant of mine they themselves broke, although I myself had husbandly ownership of them,’ is the utterance of Jehovah. “For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,†is the utterance of Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.â€â€" - Jr31:31-33

    Furthermore, Jehovah's purpose shows in the way Israel was organized back then.

    "If, now, he were upon earth, he would not be a priest, there being [men] who offer the gifts according to the Law, but which [men] are rendering sacred service in a typical representation and a shadow of the heavenly things;..." - Heb8:4-5

    "For since the Law has a shadow of the good things to come, but not the very substance of the things, [men] can never with the same sacrifices from year to year which they offer continually make those who approach perfect." - Heb10:1

    We all know that the apostle Paul was among the very first to affirm that the Law was henceforth obsolete and he even chided Peter for not being firm enough when pressured to keep in effect certain aspects of the Law.

    "For he is our peace, he who made the two parties one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace; and that he might fully reconcile both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself. And he came and declared the good news of peace to YOU, the ones far off, and peace to those near, because through him we, both peoples, have the approach to the Father by one spirit." - Eph2:14-18

    Paul's stance in that regard was unambiguous, which may incite us to conclude that those who think that Paul was still attached to the Law, as can be supposedly demonstrated by certain verses, really have reading and understanding impairments. Interestingly, Paul isn't the only one to do this. James is much more famous in that regard and was even ostracized in the past as a narrow-minded individual. Paul wouldn't say in one of his letters that the Law is obsolete and later on state in another one that we must keep observing it. It's therefore obvious that when James and him make reference to the Law, they implied principles that aren't abolished because they're general or used said general principles in order to make their readers reason over the point being discussed. If there seems to be a contradiction in Paul's writings, it must certainly be due to a misunderstanding on our part or to a lack of spiritual understanding because, among other reasons, even Paul said that he wasn't "no, no" and "yes, yes" at the same time.

    If we take into account the fact that the apostles knew what they were doing, it thus stands to reason that their doctrine wasn't equivocal, that their readers were able to distinguish that which pertained to a doctrinal and ritualistic application of the Law with a view to forgiveness of the sins and that which pertained to the drawing of principles, which weren't supposed to be abolished.

    "“All things, therefore, that YOU want men to do to YOU, YOU also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean." - Matt7:12

    "He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.â€" - Mat22:37-40

    If we read again Jr31:31-33, we notice that God's Law would be written in the hearts of each Israelite.

    Please read too : "For instance, all those who sinned without law will also perish without law; but all those who sinned under law will be judged by law. For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous. For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused. This will be in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare." - Rom2:12-16

    Here, Paul explained that to be a Jew wasn't at all a requirement so as to be saved because even Gentiles were at times observing the principles of the Law without knowing it whereas full-fledged Jews would overlook them. Only the Jews on the inside were to be accepted as faithful, those whose hearts would contain God's Law. That reasoning is still valid today when it comes to anointed individuals who manifestly choose to ignore what on which the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets, in the same vein as Jesus taught us all about how love should be demosntrated. Many brothers and sisters of the GC demonstrate qualities and spiritual abilities that some anointed individuals badly need to acquire. To have a gift isn't to have supernatural abilities. It just gives the receiver abilities or a discernment that would necessitate decades to get otherwise (Ps19:7, Acts 4:13).

    Obedience to the Law was a requirement for the Jews to be saved. Jesus explained later on that the spirit of the Law was the key to observe it properly and in all the subtlety and depth that Jehovah had meant it for. The Jews as a whole fell short in that regard. Now, salvation isn't obtained through the works of the Law but through faith, which is merely the logical and spiritual conclusion of God's purpose for mankind. Even if the works of the Law aren't needed anymore to be saved, Jesus underlined the need to apply the spirit of the Law to that end (Matt7:2).

    Furthermore, we must distinguish the Law as a whole from the Old Covenant. The OC only was replaced by a spiritual counterpart which would enable its members to accomplish more long-lasting and thorough spiritual goals. The New Convenant freed God's purpose from physical limitations and enabled His purpose to reach a higher and more complete dimension, that's the word for it.

    The fact that the spiritual patterns contained in the OT as well as its behavioral requirements were still valid after Jesus' death demonstrate that not everything was abolished and also that the apostles were right when they quoted from it or took general principles in order to apply them to Christians. As a matter of fact, on a spiritual point of view and besides the ritualistic requirements related to the forgiveness of sins, we still are under Law...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Very well written, Utuna.

    Paul, being a well taught Pharisee, was very likely familiar with the writings of Greek philosophers such as Plato and Socrates. In “The Republicâ€, written by Plato, it covers the subject of government of men and just rulers. There is an allegory which most readers and teachers refer to as “the allegory of the caveâ€. There is a phrase that Plato uses, and which Paul also uses; “the shadow of the reality.†Plato’s Republic was supposedly written around 380 B.C.E.

    I say “supposedly†because there is no real way of proving a specific date. Also, this particular book has supposed conversations with Socrates, Athenians, and foreigners. “They†discuss the meanings of justice, governments, and the philosopher-kings, the theory of forms, the immortality of the soul, and right to rule. I also say “they†because there is no proof that these individuals existed and had these conversations. It could have been the whole idea (fiction-philosophy) of Plato, himself. "The Republic, Book VII, On Shadows and Realities in Education."

    Paul uses similar language to describe the difference between “the Law of commandments consisting in decrees,†which are “a typical representationâ€(the shadow), “of the heavenly things.â€(the reality). As Paul pointed out, the Law was used to show that the people were imperfect and could not attain life through animal sacrifice (the shadow), no matter how often they performed them. The Law was based on righteous principles which are still in effect (the reality). A definition of Law is; “the principles and regulations established in a community by some authority and applicable to its people, whether in the form of legislation or of custom and policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision.â€

    If the community disregards the “principles and regulations†it does not nullify or remove them from being obeyed. They are the underlying rules especially to regulate conduct. If you recall, these were first and foremost, laws for worship of Jehovah, their God. It wasn’t until a later period that the Israelites were given civil laws.

    Tsaphah

    P.S. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."
     
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    jehovahisgod

    jehovahisgod Experienced Member

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    the law was not abolished..
    it was made compleate by the 11 th comand the law of love. and furthermore jesus paid the ransom in advance if we do fail..
    the commandments of jehovah are still his rightous will and we should not think oh jesus died so now I can steal,or that coveting what is your neighbors is ok now.. what was abolished was the mandate of punishment for breaking the law.. now we have forgiveness and the oportunity to repent without a beating or sacrafice or even death...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Hi jehovahisgod,
    Wait a minute! . . . Does that mean I can’t continue to live the way I always have? You mean my buddies that shot all those guys up aren’t going to be with me in heaven? I thought the blood paid for all that. Darn!! I guess I had better say about 50 Hail Mary’s and 50 Our Father’s. That’s the ticket. That will take care of it.

    Now I think I’ll go out and smoke a little somethin’. It will make me feel even better.
    :rolleyes:

    Just kiddin’ ya.
    :cool:
     
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    jehovahisgod

    jehovahisgod Experienced Member

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    wow, A notable son of god said something like this vipers! you travel the world to make a convert but when you make 1 he become twice the son of hell as he once was. yes cheap once saved allways saved is everywere. but paul said brothers I dont claim to have atained it but this I keep doing,I forget the things behind me and push forward to win the prize...
    yes paul who was a pharasie over the pharasies and a master of the law.knew that law could not save him.he knew he was not yet saved.
    so how on earth could anybody say Im saved? Im working toward the goal like paul. the law cant save me, but it sure as heck can help me avoid alot of sorrows that come from breaking it...and whats with those who say Im saved yet keep right on sining? jesus ransom is a pardon from death not a magic charm that lets you avoid the here and now sorrows from doing bad stuff. smoke cigarets you get cancer, jesus or no jesus,commit fornication you get to pay child support and get beat up by her other boyfreind! yes jesus ransom frees us from the death sentance but not from the sentance of conseqences! so obey the law and suffer less
    look at jabez simple prayor lord let me not sin so that I dont have pains! and god liked his prayor....
     
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    Gabriel

    Gabriel Guest

    JIG you always have a way with words that make me smile. I like you, Buddy.
     
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    Eden

    Eden Guest

    Good topic and good post, Utuna.

    An example of what you've said comes to mind. The OC condemned homosexuality. Jesus didn't say a word about the subject - except mentioning that the original marriage arrangement was between a male and a female. Should one conclude that, since the OC was now rendered "obsolete", that Jesus' silence upon the subject meant that it was now acceptable? The apostles thought differently, and the condemnation of homosexual conduct was kept.

    Obviously, the principles behind the OC are still in force for Christians.

    However, it took apostolic authority to decide upon such matters. Since there's no apostles today, who can with proper authority pick items from the OC and apply them to Christianity - except the ones established by the apostles? And who can pick up items from the OC that the apostles kept within Christian faith and nullify them? In my opinion no one today has sufficient authority.

    Unless you can tell me what constitutes enough "authority" these days.

    Eden
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    jehovahisgod

    jehovahisgod Experienced Member

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    the penalty for breaking the law is death because of sin jesus abolished the need to die! you can instead turn from doing what's bad and do what's good and if you do people will forgive you for what you did to them and God will be pleased with you
     

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