What is the Good News of God's Kingdom?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by John S, Nov 23, 2015.

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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    I have to go out so I won't have a chance to write for a while. Gonna write a bit further about the scripture at Jude 6 - why I think that angels can materialise a body for themselves, as well as some accounts from the Hebrew Scriptures talking about this. The sort of post where I am thinking out loud to myself.
     
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    Thinking

    Thinking Guest


    I wish he could help me with mine:confused:
     
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    Utuna

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    Dear John_S,

    It appears that you have/had some contacts with a certain Domenic that developed here myths similar to yours and which came from the book of Enoch. He ended up implying that the blacks are Satan's seed and he was banned as a result. Once bitten, twice shy... We see it coming a mile off in your explanations and that's why we're taking action in order to anticipate and nip in the bud what might follow in your comments that might be uncalled for.
     
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    Utuna

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    You said :
    The demons can possess people but can't materialize anymore. Jesus had numerous contacts with the demons when he was on earth and it was always through possessed people, never through direct contact with materialized demons. On the other hand, the angels still have this capacity but they always use it in accordance with God's purpose. They'll never use it for personal goals such as satisfying unnatural desires.

    If you say that the demons had offsprings again with women after the Flood, it's totally unscriptural and absurd. The war in question is spiritual only although it takes place in real life and affects us all, especially God's chosen ones, since they really are the Seed, being Christ's body.
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    I can’t write as eloquently as others – I’m a “meat and potatoes” gal. So I apologise, in advance, if my thoughts sound too simplistic, or if there are any errors in my thinking. Just trying to think out loud here.

    Jude 6 reads: “And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.”

    It seems to me that Jehovah had a specific purpose and a “dwelling place” for the angels. By coming to the earth and mating with women, they were doing something that was unnatural for them and it went against Jehovah’s purpose for them.

    The first account that comes to my mind is that of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego thrown into the furnace. This was the occasion when they refused to bow down before the image of gold, as commanded by Nebuchadnezzar.

    Nebuchadnezzar saw 4 men walking inside the furnace – the fourth man was an angel.

    What if the angel had to “modify” his body so that it could resist fire? This would lead me to the next point that an angel might have the ability to “modify” his body for any other circumstance or activity.

    I can think of other accounts where angels appeared before men (before Jesus came to earth.) In Genesis chapter 18, Abraham extended hospitality to 3 angels.

    Judges 13 speaks of an angel visiting Samson’s parents to give them instructions as to how their son should be raised.

    Daniel 10 speaks of an angel visiting Daniel so as to strengthen and encourage him. These are just the ones I can think of, from off the top of my head.

    I think it would be feasible for the disobedient angels to materialize a human body, so that they could use this body and mate with women on earth.

    It would seem to me that this materialized body would be expendable – if it is expendable, then it would be possible to dispose of this body at the time of the Flood, so as to be able to go back to the spiritual realm.

    Jude 6 seems to indicate that there is some kind of restriction on the disobedient angels – they are constrained by “eternal bonds.”

    I have no idea what would be involved in materializing a human body. I assume that the process must involve some sort of manipulating of matter, molecules and energy forces to achieve this.

    That process I don’t understand and the Bible doesn’t go into deep detail about it either. I would certainly like to know how an angel does that. But I will have to be patient and wait for further information on that subject.
     
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    Utuna

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    That's the kind of "meat and potatoes" recipe I like... Can't wait to know more about that satay sauce of yours.... :p

    "As one of them was cutting down a tree, the axhead fell into the water, and he cried out: “Alas, my master, it was borrowed!” The man of the true God said: “Where did it fall?” So he showed him the place. He then cut off a piece of wood and threw it there and made the axhead float. He said: “Lift it out.” So he reached out his hand and took it." - 2 Kings 6:5-7
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    I will reply, as the tone seems more tolerant: thank you.

    Yes, I agree the 'Seed" now is Christ, and those who belong to him, (Gal. 3:16, 26-29 and the final act of throwing Satan into the Lake of Fire terminates him, fulfilling Gen. 3..."bruising in the head", a privilege reserved for the seed, the Christ.

    I know nothing about Domenic's interpretation of my subject above. I did not review any written material from him to formulate my thoughts of angels having bodies. I take that from the scriptures. Even good angels come, and look like us, eat, and function as we do. Because they disappear when they've finished their mission doesn't mean they are materializing bodies. That is my opinion based on the scriptures: especially the disobedient being able to have children.

    Now, that being said...I WII SPECULATE on something future-prophesied. And I will repeat, this is my speculation based on the scriptures and archaeology. I will not say it is going to happen, or is absolute truth, because I don't know. But I suspect. And I do not 'get' this from any writing, or any other person, it is my wonder.

    There is the prophecy of the Wild Beast government to come being so awe-inspiring, that people claim it is a god. (see Rev. 13:8,12,13)

    Rev. 13:3,4 tells of one of the heads of the beast, getting a death-stroke healed, and coming back to life. This, is in my theory, COULD BE the 1st Wild Beast: Egypt.

    The edifices in Egypt, including the Cheops pyramid, are not hand-made, as any engineer will testify. They are also not assembled without huge cranes. Other stones cut with laser precision in different places on earth are even larger; some up to 1000 tons.There is no crane on earth presently, nor in history recorded that can lift a stone that size....let alone, cut and be transported 40-50 miles. My hypothesis is that off-world creations of Jehovah...a different species of human; not from Adam, came here and built these monuments, walls, foundations, and temples of extraordinary size and precision, and Adam-kind worshiped them as gods. History tells us this is what ancient people did. They drew pictures of these people. They were extraordinarily large, and some seemed to have larger heads; elongated. This is in hieroglyphs, and paintings in different areas around the world.

    That being my basis for believing this; If Satan returns to earth after being defeated by the angels in the War in Heaven, WHAT IF these same type of creatures...possibly fallen angels,,,return with him IN MACHINES like they may have come before, when they built these aforementioned monuments which still exist? Then, Satan claims HE and THESE BEINGS had come before...say in Egypt's time...or even before the flood, (when one engineer said the Cheops pyramid was built because he said a film of salt exists on all the interior rooms of the pyramid; floodwaters).

    So Satan pretends, or actually states truthfully he is a god that existed before the flood, and had a world-wide kingdom, even a race of giant super-beings...BETTER than humans, more powerful...and that Jehovah, a 'rival god' wiped him out because he was jealous. And now he, the real originator of the human race...(he will contend maybe)...has returned to prove he is the true god, not Jehovah, and Christ is a false-prophet.

    With this lie believed, because the 'demons', or off-world alien-looking humans he brings with him perform great signs using technology we can only dream of. The people will worship these beings, as gods, able to satisfy every need for food and shelter, maybe even medicines that cure cancer, too, possibly. Wow!

    So the stage is set for the anointed 2 Witnesses verses the Wild Beast miracle showdown. Rev. 11

    The Egyptian 'head who had the death stroke' has now been healed, and returns with restored power. (Rev. 11:7)

    This is a way I have of understanding the phenomena I have seen, along with 1000's of other people ; flying craft in the sky that are not of this earth...not humankind's.

    These beings have been coming here for some time in some of these machines that are, according to eye-witnesses up to a mile wide.

    I have seen hovering craft, that work against gravity. I have also seen a machine fly past me at night that was cloaked and silent in 2009. A window lit up...just a window..as it flew by me about 8o feet away, and 30 feet off the water...and then it faded out, in a second or two. Just a window....shaped about like a front car window, and about the same size.

    In 1966. my cousin and I; both 12 years old, were traveling through the Coast range of mountains in Norther California. Our car, being driven by his aunt and uncle, was followed about 500 feet away, ...through the mountains...appearing through spaces in the trees to our sight. It was orange, and shaped like an upside down bell. It appeared to be about 20 feet tall...about 8-10 feet wide. It followed the car about 45 minutes. No wings, just a bell shape.

    During hurricane Katrina disaster-relief work, 8 brothers were guarding relief supplies at our Hall in Hattiesburg, MS. At 2:30 a.m., a young 18 year old brother sitting next to me as we were at our station about 15 feet off Hwy 49 southbound, and a National Guard convoy was rolling by...

    we saw a craft in the solar-powered billboard lights fly over the billboard, missing it byno more than 8-10 feet, then it glided into an even -with-the-lane path over the convoy, and matched speeds of the trucks: about 50 mph. There was no sound of engine from it, no propellers, or jets that we could see, or hear. It was shaped like a boomerang, and was dark gray or black.

    Being acquainted with lift-properties of planes, the aircraft was incapable of level flight at that speed, without an anti-gravity propulsion system...and it coasted on down at about 40 feet in the air, following the convoy until we could see it no more.

    In 1970, me and two friends were walking on the beach in N. California, again in the wee hours of a.m....Saturday night, I believe. We heard a noise behind us in the air. It was a flapping sound, like a car trailer with loose tarps on the highway. When we turned around, we were shocked .

    About 125-150 feet in the air, a perfect ball about 40-50 feet round was flying down the coastline...and it was a ball on fire... no craft was seen...just a perfect ball with flames totally covering it. It was as if you soaked a rubber ball in gas and threw it...just fire.

    It, too, was going about 5o mph, so it had to have anti-gravity propulsion, (no wings and flying slow) if a craft was under that fire. Something had to be...as it went for at least 1 mile-2 miles, until we saw it no more. Never varying in altitude or speed.

    This is what I believe, and why I think possibly we will see the fulfillment in this form, not a medieval angel-as-ghosts...or all-humankind wild beast. But what we would term as 'alien' races coming in crafts.

    I say this not as a prophesy from God....but it is something I am thinking MAY be the way it happens. And I wish to expound this possibility to you all IN CASE it happens that way, your mind will be armed to accept it for what it is without too much fear...or shock.

    This is a lot like Joshua, speculating on when the days of judgment will be on a calendar. Speculation. Not sure...but wondering, based on what I have seen and learned.

    This explains what I was saying before, that possibly we don't have the BIGGER picture yet. That the physical universe we see in telescopes is the 'heavens' and all the galaxies we see may have life on them, and civilizations that are not all loyal to Jehovah either, just like our earth.

    Maybe this return of Satan with the 'third of the stars of heaven' coming with him will be the great 'disclosure' of other life in our universe.

    This seems quite probable and possible to me, as a fulfillment of Bible prophecy.

    But, I may be wrong.

    One thing is true, though as you must admit. Adam and Eve were blind-sided by the alien/angel that came to them; and in full disguise.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    John, still waiting to hear how his seed is not also her seed, if the seed is literal.
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    Oh, OK.

    Well Satan tried to steal Eve from Adam before they 'consummated'...because he wanted her for his 'seed' ...his race of creatures...which he did achieve through her daughters/granddaughters.

    This became his seed...and his cronies', too.

    Eve's seed in the truest sense was all pure DNA with husband Adam's original DNA.

    In the long-term, it comes down to Christ. His bloodline through Mary, and Joseph, coupled with Father transferring him into a body with exactly compatible DNA created a son of God in exactly the same DNA as Adam as Their (God and Christ's) sacrifice to 'justice, or equality'.

    We, also, who are 'one with Christ' as I quoted from Galatians above, are part of that seed of Eve, because no doubt we are of the true blood of Noah, who had no demon DNA in him. So we, the 'Sons of God' can because of being joint-heirs with Christ, legally have a share in judging and executing these murderers who have taken over our home, and murdered us all.

    This harmonizes with the Law code,. The 'avenger of blood', a relative of the murdered person, could exact vengeance upon his murdered relative by killing them before they fled to one of the 6 cities of refuge. Num. 35:19-21

    The desire of Satan still, is to murder the anointed on earth when he returns from the heaven war, as Revelation shows, the woman bears a 'male child', which the serpent tries to kill. Some will martyr, of course, all will be sorely tried, and tested, as we all need to be purified as if by fire, to receive the crown.
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    And, of course, Jesus applied spiritually, I think, the term 'offspring of the Devil', to the Pharisees in a spiritual way, because they were liars, and murderers, and also haughty and proud.

    The concept I heard being passed around that one of Noah's sons' wives had demonic blood in her...and that after the flood certain blood-lines were brought back through the flood, like the Anakim, (Goliath, Amalek, and other 6-finger giant men of Biblical lore; even the Canaanites) ?

    Maybe. I don't know.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    John S, the scripture clearly says "her" seed, and "your" seed (meaning Satan). If he meant literal would they not both be her seed? You are imposing an interpretation that is not there. The scripture clearly reads "her" seed, and then "your" seed. If Satan had children with Eve, they would be her seed as well in the context Jehovah is speaking here. I'm not sure why this is becoming a difficult concept to understand. Why wouldn't Jehovah had just said between your seed and Adams seed? Or between his seed and your seed? Why did he say the women's seed? Absolutely nothing to do with Rev 12 right?

    I really don't understand why you hang on to such an obviously erroneous understanding that leads to hatred and teachings of demons.

    So if your saying that Satan's line survived the flood, then someone on that boat had to carry the DNA right? The theory goes that Ham's wife was the decedent of Satan's line. It is also believed that Ham was the father of the dark skin line.

    So are you saying blacks are the seed of Satan?
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    I'll try one more time to communicate with you. You seem intent to 'trap' me into saying something 'demonic', or racial. This is not loving.

    I am not preaching blacks are a cursed race.

    The scripture is clear as a bell.

    "I shall put enmity between you (Satan) and the woman (Eve). Between your seed (Satan and the demons' children) with Eve's daughters/granddaughters...which did occur as recorded in Gen. 6..AND your (Eve with Adam and their line of children...the table of nations :Gen. 5.)

    The demon /human race was killed in the Flood, I assume.

    Some people ....not I...have stated they believe one or more of the girls who married Noah's sons may have had demon DNA...possibly showing up in Canaan, as he 'did' something sexual to Noah, perverse...and also his offspring, the inhabitants of Canaan were commanded to be wiped out. This includes the Anakim, Amalekites, Philistines, and other Giant men.

    This may be true, but I cannot verify every detail with scriptural proof. Too many holes in the story line.

    It appears you are frustrated with this explanation, and are not seeing what I am saying, but assuming something that is not there in my explanation. Maybe we should drop it.

    I have said all I wanted on this topic as a warning possibly of what MIGHT happen. That is all.
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    I 'm sorry we misunderstand each other like this. No need for it.

    You know Jehovah wanted the Canaanites wiped out. Their history was one of gross immorality and murder. They deserved to die, and surely will receive a heavy judgment at the resurrection. Whether they are hybrid humans, I don't know. I can't say one way or another.

    Canaan was the son of Ham, and Cush was also. I believe the Cushites were the fathers of the black race primarily, but it was his brother Canaan that birthed the Canaanites, which were not black...yet still cursed by Jehovah.

    Now, if I a person were to say Ham was married to a girl with demon blood in her veins, then yes, I can see how you may be thinking , "John is saying blacks have demon blood, and are cursed. "

    If that is what you are thinking, then I understand why you are upset.

    I would rather believe Father would not have allowed any unclean blood of demons on that ark, myself...as the whole point of the Flood was to erase the demonic culture and the animals they may have altered, too.

    So, I would submit none of the three girls would have been allowed on if they were not pure seed of Eve/Adam.
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    Sorry , the 'Table of Nations' isn't in Gen.5...but 10.There one can see the main population's history as they populated the earth. I believe there are 70 nations listed there.

    Israelites were Shem's children. Semitic.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    John A, the scripture clearly says "her" seed when speaking of
    Your wrong, that is not what the scripture says, it never brings up Adam at all.

    It's interesting that you include Adams children in the women's seed, but not Satan's, even though you claim she supposedly mothered them. And if your going to assume Adam is involved because you need two to make a baby, then at that point you have to assume Eve in Satan's seed, and you come full circle, every child is Eve's seed. It doesn't work.

    He didn't say Adam's seed...

    Clearly this understanding is external interpretive, yet lacking continuity.
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    I'm going to use a bit of reasoning here along the lines of: if point "A" is true then it follows that point "B" must be true.

    As the Flood wiped out demonic culture and Jehovah would not have allowed demonic blood on the Ark, then we can conclude that the Canaanites were not hybrid humans.

    Yes, they were a nation that practiced gross immorality and murder. I would say that would be the result of demonic influence, affecting people's behaviour. Perhaps the demons were angry at being restricted by Jehovah.
     
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Hi all,
    Interesting subject for sure.

    Genesis 6:
    4 The Neph′i‧lim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the [true] God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame.

    What does that phrase mean - and also after that - is it possible that this unnatural relationship between unfaithful angels and women of men was and is still possilble?

    There is more here than we think we understand.

    For some reason Jehovah has alllowed right up to the time we live in now for satan to challenge and create problems for all including the chosen ones.

    This is a fact that is supported in scripture - so my question to you is - do you believe that Jehovah still allows for the unfaithful angels who are demons to matieralize as men and procreate with women of mankind?

    Show me please in scripture where Jehovah prohibits this.

    We should question everything and test all teaching with the living word of truth.

    Have a blessed day brothers and sisters.

    Joe
     
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    Frank Conger

    Frank Conger Guest

    Hi All:

    I just came in on this discussion. I did not go back and read all of the post's before these latest ones, I apologize. Since we know that the angels (who were under the leadership of Satan) came down to the earth and had sexual relations with human women, why would it surprise us that Satan was the "Father" of this disturbing activity? Surely, if any of the demons were to have intercourse with Eve it would surely be Satan himself. Also, if you are going to upset the plan of God, why not start right at the beginning?

    Has anyone brought up the subject discussed in 1 John 3: 1-12? It is pretty clear to me what John thinks on this subject from the context of his statement at verse 12. The new world translation does a pretty good job of translating this verse but to get the true essence of what is being said you really should look at a greek interlinear translation. Read that chapter carefully and then tell me what you think John thought on the subject.

    In verse 12 in the interlinear it says that Cain "came out" of Satan. The words used to translate to "came out" literally mean to "originate". Next, do a search on the expression "came out" and read those scriptures especially in Genesis and see what it suggests when using that term "came out"

    Also, it is not impossible that both Satan and Adam fathered children with Eve during the same "cycle", as that still happens to this day.

    Just because God's word does not easily spell out the details of this behavior does not mean that it did not happen. Often, these "truths" are hidden deep in the scriptures and have to be searched out. Jesus, our master told us that we should seek to understand every "jot" and "tittle" of the scriptures, for much is hidden in the details that will not be seen on the surface.

    Frank
     
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    Thinking

    Thinking Guest

    This is the best peice of evidence I have came across showing the Giants after the flood were NOT the type of giants before the flood..( at one time I started wondering this too )
    He is not a witness...I don't know his faith.....I would encourage ALL to listen to this and save it for future reference....enjoy:)



     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    The brother did an excellent job researching the subject .
     

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