What is the 'House of God' Today...and Is it the Temple?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by John S, Mar 4, 2016.

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    John S

    John S Member

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    I believe a lot can be considered on this subject, as it has been determined that the Temple is a pivotal feature not only in Daniel's prophecies, but all through Christian teaching...especially Revelation.

    Is it Christianity?

    The Watchtower HQ at Bethel?

    The living Body of Christ on earth ?

    Some other...

    Any takers?
     
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    Earthbound

    Earthbound Guest

    Christian greetings to you, John S,

    A good, strong foundation is a good place to build upon, so it would be helpful to me if I had some idea of what your personal study of the Bible has shown about the Temple.

    ~ Earthbound ~
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    It is my understanding that the Tabernacle is the example.

    The Most Holy representing heaven, the Holy Place representative of Christs brothers, and the courtyard that of those who have washed their garments in the sacrifice.
     
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    Londoner

    Londoner Member

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    Hi Joshuastone7 :)

    I think the House of God is the anointed descendants of the original Jews and Gentile anointed Christians. Heb 3: 1, 6

    Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge —Jesus.

    but Christ was faithful as a son over God’s house. We are His house if, indeed, we hold on firmly to our freeness of speech and the hope of which we boast down to the end
    .

    Londoner
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Here is a video I made on the subject, feel free to watch it and give me your impression...

     
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    Londoner

    Londoner Member

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    Hi Joshuastone7 :)

    It was a good general presentation, no new thoughts. The descendants of the original Jews have not been forgotten by Jehovah. But that is a discussion for another time.

    Londoner
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    We are having that discussion on another thread now, and have had many times before. It is my opinion that everything promised to the Jewish nation has already been fulfilled, and that there is nothing outstanding ahead for them as a prophetic group.

    I believe Israel and Jerusalem in the time of the end represent all true worshipers and a have world wide fulfillment. This understanding is tied up in the 70th week.

    Not everyone agrees with me, it's just my understanding as I see it...
     
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    Daz

    Daz Member

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    Hi there Londonder, I have private messaged you.
    Kind regards
    Daz
     
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    Londoner

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    Hi Joshuastone7 :)

    I used to believe that but have come to a different view now. The original Jews very much are still a part of God's plan and will in the future play a pivotal role in up and coming prophesies in the time of the end that will be awe-inspiring and momentous. Those prophesies are misunderstood now whilst the true Israelites are still in the "dulling of senses" mound and we are awaiting for the completion of the gathering of the nations (Gentiles) to be fulfilled. Rom 11: 25 -

    For I do not want you to be unaware of this sacred secret, brothers, so that you do not become wise in your own eyes: A partial dulling of senses has come upon Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in,

    Londoner
     
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    Earthbound

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    Christian greetings, Londoner,

    If the board doesn't mind me asking, what led to the changed perspective?

    ~ Earthbound ~
     
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    Londoner

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    Hi Earthbound :)

    A friend presented me and a couple of other friends an essay pointing to the fact that the Jews are still very much part of God's plan during the Great Tribulation. I threw every Pro-Christian scripture at him, but he was able to bounce them back and prove scripturally that God's people at present are divided into two nations. One is asleep (dulled senses) who don't know who they are and that they are descendants of the original Jews, and the other are Christians. Eze 37:11 -

    Eze 37:22 And I shall actually make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel, and one king is what all of them will come to have as king, and they will no longer continue to be two nations, nor will they be divided any longer into two kingdoms.

    Londoner
     
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    Jan

    Jan Active Member

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    Interestingly God's Holy Temple in Jesusalem was used by different competing religious groups before it was destroyed in 70 CE.

    So maybe in the same sense all "christian" church buildings and kingdom halls maybe even the synagogues could collectively be the Temple where the man of lawlessness will sit and claim to be God.

    I think Donald Trump will become the man of lawlessness and then he should visit different places of christian worship and tell people that he is God.
    Like ancient Roman emperors that claimed to be Gods and required worship.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Greetings Londoner...

    Can I ask you a question, or anyone else who would like to join in?

    I've wondered this about the subject of Israel today in prophecy being the Jews. What are the Jews? Are we talking about those in modern Israel? My objection to that is, they are not all Jews, they are not all of the Jewish faith, Israel is full of Christians, and Muslims, and any number of faiths.

    Are we talking genetics here, and how do you prove that? What percentage are we talking, and how does Jehovah choose by race? Are the Jewish race today pure, and is that the road we are going down with this idea of genetics? That's a scary thought...

    If we are talking religion, are we clumping an entire race with a belief? Not all genetic Jews believe one thing. Is that like saying you can only be a Catholic if your Italian? That's weird...

    I don't understand this idea of Israel and Jerusalem being a physical location or race of people. Can you please explain it to me?

    Thank you...
     
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Hi Joshua,

    It seems to me that the Israel of God is explained by Paul as a spiritutal nation that is comprised of all believers both Jew and Gentile.

    Galatians 6:
    12 All those who want to make a pleasing appearance in the flesh are the ones that try to compel YOU to get circumcised, only that they may not be persecuted for the torture stake of the Christ, Jesus. 13 For not even do those who are getting circumcised keep the Law themselves, but they want YOU to be circumcised that they may have cause for boasting in YOUR flesh. 14 Never may it occur that I should boast, except in the torture stake of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom the world has been impaled to me and I to the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything nor is uncircumcision, but a new creation [is something]. 16 And all those who will walk orderly by this rule of conduct, upon them be peace and mercy, even upon the Israel of God.

    Am I missing something?

    Joe
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Since I've made a number of posts about this, I'll respond.

    To clarify, I would NOT ascribe ALL prophecy to physical Israel / Jerusalem; that is the stretch the evangelical framework makes and IMO taints their exegesis. (and makes them no better than the Judaizers in Galatians)

    Rather a small sub-set of prophecy applies, ultimately, where Jehovah has promised to graft *some* aspect of Abraham's descendants back into the family. There are only a few of the OT prophecies I would suggest fall into this category, coupled up with the clear statements in Romans 11.

    Primarily the last half of Zechariah 12; for the rest of it, I'm with you that "Israel" prophetically represents the true Sons of God in relation to Jesus the Christ.

    So, ultimately:

    Romans 11 and Zechariah 12 are stating that the Jews will recognize the messiah they killed

    (they are blind until the people of the nations who recognize the Christ are confirmed into the new covenant, at some future point)

    The entire narrative of the Bible revolves around the symbolic drama of the seed of these two women, Sarah and Hagar.

    Almost the entirety of Genesis is a symbolic representation of this fact.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Joe and Singlecell... Please be directed to post #28 HERE. Today I went in depth with this matter...

    BTW, I agree 100% with you Joe.
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    All believers really ?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Utuna, I will direct you to post #28 HERE as well...lol I answered it in quite detail there...
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    No, thank you. :)

    "You must say to Pharʹaoh, ‘This is what Jehovah says: “Israel is my son, my firstborn." - Ex 4:22

    "You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation." - Ex 19:6

    "But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession," - 1 Pe 2:9
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Utuna, good evening... :)

    Could you please give me an idea of how you interpret the scriptures you have presented, my reading of them fits my understanding. Maybe you could clarify why you posted them?

    Thanks brother...
     

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