Where is our Unity?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Firebird II, Mar 1, 2016.

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    Firebird II

    Firebird II Guest

    "I'm not going to bash you for the decisions you have made, it's not my place, nor is it yours to encourage anyone to stay or leave the congregations as well."

    I gave myself some precious time before hooking up, again, to this site. I have met and posted with friends on the Music chatroom. Loved it. A few weeks passed.
    Then, I was ready to then post a reply as to why it was crucial to remain, or, just go back to the Cong once again, to get back that Spiritual Feeling that you only can get at the Hall.

    Well, I did not care for, for this latest disturbing statement, quoted above just recently in a post. I'm sure there will be a certain cheerleader who will stand by this statement, who will stand by this man, as to his prior posts. But I will await a response to this, as it should clash with one's Deep Belief. I am sure They will Justify this statement according to their needs.
    Micah 7:5

    I had hopes for putting my experiences and dreams and limited Bible knowledge into this site.
    To encourage one another, but as it seems to me "Why is it that on any given day, that there are only four, maybe seven members here at one given time?
    Still,,,Matthew 5:3.

    Out of a million or so people out there who surely have extensive knowledge, or better yet, a Deep loving attitude with a better reasoning with one another, that somehow they have a better place to mingle with, than with this squabble.
    Honestly, I came here to escape secular family bickering to hopefully see something constructive here.
    I only saw something constructive & upbuilding by going to the Thread of "What Music do you Listen to?"
    That has more hits than anything here,,,,and it sure does help in ways only one can wonder.

    OKAY! All that said now, I am going to relate to you, why I attend the KH meetings, sporadically. I FELT the need to, as only one certain Pushy Sis that I know that can actually relate to this experience. Now, WHY?? Why this need?? Well, there was a certain statement made a few years ago, not sure where I heard this: e-JW.org, Watchman,,,(think it was watchman),,,that said, "JW's will be content to stay on the SIDELINES, while watching BTG go down in flames."

    That bothered me ever since,,,why?
    Because, aren't there some of us here who would rather stay on the Sidelines? Watch the Great WTB&TS go down in flames?? While crazily be Contented in finally knowing that their realized dreams have Finally come to pass? All the while staying safely away in their own corner in their own private little world, joyfully gloating over the slow destruction of the JW Organization?

    That is not for me,,,what kind of show of "Love" is That?? Hiding yourself away. I say, (for myself) get your Ass back into that Battlefield, what good is your show of Faith if you Hide it? Do some good out there when the Time comes, help out those ones who will need it. Sure, Those ONES did not even look your way when you stepped into that KH, let alone give a Rat's Ass about you,,,still, I am not there to impress them,,,Instead it would be a major Sacrifice on my part,,,to do Anything I can help those there.
     
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    Firebird II

    Firebird II Guest

    Matthew 5:10, as an highly Ironic motive, for me to be there,,,,
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Do you have a point to your rhetoric of this forum?

    You leave then come back and post and then call out "a certain cheerleader" (whom you have an improper grievance with) when many agree to the platform of this forum as regards it's rules on drawing people after themselves.

    Why post that you don't see any encouragement here in this "squabble"? What is your purpose? You are the one who recently reinstated your membership, no one sought you out...

    There are rules on this forum agreed on by the majority. If you don't like it, go. That stands for all...
     
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    Thinking

    Thinking Guest

    Yes our unity is very important ...and I admire that you continue to battle on and go to some meetings...this is not a easy thing to do ..especially when there is no family support to do this.
    So never give up on this Firebird..as you encourage others who look on..

    Personally I will always and every time encourage brothers and sisters to STAY...within the organization and attend meetings ..if at all possible....I strongly believe we should all be encouraging that..but I suppose not to the point of hassling them over it....bit of a fine line I guess.

    I too vaguely remember that quote by Robert about ones being on the sideline when the WT goes down.....I think it is those ones that have caused the 'squabble ' element on here that you refer too...they have had a impact for sure and not a good one.

    I have given this element a great deal of thought and have blocked their posts ..so I no longer have to deal with such deflating words..and therefore will no longer be caught up in useless debating and arguments. i will not allow them to endanger my spirituality any further.
    I will therefore continue to be built up and encouraged in a spiritual way by the other brothers and sisters on here who like you struggle on with meetings and showing patience in waiting for Jehovah.
    I truly hope you stay on the forum Firebird and not let that Squabble element have their way...because we really need each other at this time.......and perhaps you have misunderstood the intentions and good will of the cheerleader...whoever that may be.

    Just thinking
     
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    jehovahisgod

    jehovahisgod Experienced Member

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    Well hello long time no see! I'm not getting involved in your conversation.

    But as a fellow christian its nice to see you again.
     
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    Earthbound

    Earthbound Guest

    Christian greetings, Firebird,

    I feel a little awkward posting a response as a recently-registered person who just read your post, but I guess I just wanted to point to various times throughout the scriptures where men of like faith came to an impasse over a matter and for the sake of peace between them as brothers they parted ways. Sometimes, it just has to be.

    Remember how Paul and Barnabas had their falling out over Barnabas wanting John Mark to come back out in the ministering circuit and Paul would have nothing of the sort because John Mark had left them back at Pamphylia (Acts 15:36-38). Barnabas and Paul had walked alongside one another as brothers in the faith for how long by this time? But the issue surpassed all of that. They could not come to an agreement and there clearly was no room for compromise, and that was that: they went their separate ways (Acts 15:39-40). Whatever John Mark did to them, it must've been something far worse than him just taking off on them for Paul to be so opposed, right?

    Okay, so that was between individuals, right?

    Let's increase the numbers now. Abram and his nephew Lot. They prospered to the point where rivalries and in-fighting among their respective men got to the point where, for the sake of peace, Abram and Lot parted ways, and with each of them, respectively, went their tribesmen. It didn't change their status before Jehovah, however. Lot did not lose Jehovah's blessing because he wasn't worshipping alongside Abram any longer. Lot went on to make some pretty stupid decisions in the years leading up to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah — but whom among us hasn't? Even so, at the time of the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah, Jehovah preserved Lot and his family, save his wife who disobediently looked behind her. Jehovah certainly didn't have to preserve Lot. It wasn't like the Messiah was going to come through Lot's lineage. Jehovah didn't even obligate Himself to Abram, when Abram was appealing on the basis of if there were at least 10 righteous people to be found, and Abram was told that if only 10 were found, the cities would be spared. How many went out with Lot? Not 10, I assure you.

    That's not even to mention that Jehovah could have let Abram know his plans and Abram could've gone rushing in there to rescue his nephew like he'd done before. Abram didn't even broach the subject of being allowed to go in and save Lot from the coming destruction of judgment, knowing his nephew lived there. I'll come back to that shortly.

    We can even discuss the things which led to the parting of the Jewish and Gentile Christians (shameless plug here: The Parting of the Ways by James Dunn. Extensive documentation throughout). Now we're talking about the body of Christ divided, just as the Kingdom of Israel was divided into the North and South Kingdoms, right? And then came orthodox Christanity followed by catholicism, and eventually catholicism became the influence behind the Holy Roman Empire.

    Then came Protestantism, and there most certainly were Catholics who, similar to what you are saying, insisted that the thing to do is get their rear back into the fight by remaining with the Roman Catholic Church.

    And it didn't end there with Catholicism and Protestantism, did it? The Roman Catholic Church and the Greek Orthodox Church had their parting over doctrinal matters, right, and only recently did their religious leaders meet— after centuries of having nothing to do with one another. And, of course, Protestantism went into its own separations.

    Clearly, there are more than an abundance of historical examples to demonstrate not just that paramount disagreements will arise among God's people— but also how to deal with them. We can, like Cain, slay our brother— if not in deed, then in bitterness and resentment or a deep-seated need to just be right(eous). Or, we can do like so many have down through the history of our heritage as believers, and agree to disagree and part ways for the sake of peace (1 Thessalonians 4:11).

    I also noticed the title of this thread as asking the question "Where is our Unity?"

    It's a reasonable question, and while I wouldn't presume to speak for anyone else here— especially since this is my first post here! — I'd be curious as to whether you believe that because Paul and Barnabas found that parting ways was the only way to settle their difference, they lost their unity?

    They didn't stop loving one another as brothers in the Way, did they? How many times did Abram have to rescue Lot from certain doom, even though they couldn't otherwise live together for the sake of their respective tribesmen? He loved his nephew, and Lot loved Abram. Likewise with us, even if we come to a point where, for the sake of peace, we part ways from our brothers and sisters, we remain responsible for them when they come to need— and vice versa. We're to have love amongst ourselves, we're commanded. We reject Cain's argument and acknowledge that we are our brother's keeper.

    Even if we are not united in location, we most certainly are bound together by our deep love and appreciation for a Father who has done as much as Jehovah has for those earnestly seeking him and following the path set down by the one whom He sent forth— wouldn't you agree with that?

    Going back to the historical example of Abram and Lot, even after Abram rescued his nephew from bad choices and misfortunes, they did not then reunify, did they? They went there separate ways once again.

    Finally, I don't know what to make of the reference you made to those sitting on the sidelines and such, so I'm hoping you will elaborate on that more.

    All I would say is that we have to be very cautious about getting the idea that it's our job to rescue our brothers and sisters from the judgment to come upon the house of God. When it comes to a matter of judgment, we are to leave the matter to the Judge, just as Abram did when he was told that the city where his nephew Lot lived was going to be wiped off the the face of the planet.

    It's not our job with the exception of those occasions which Jehovah opens for us. Of course we have to keep on the watch for those opportunities to arise, and when they do we trust in Jehovah's spirit to give us the words we should speak. I would go so far as to say that preparing beforehand what to say to someone (who will listen or come reason with us) isn't a very good way to demonstrate our trusting in Jehovah's spirit being there for us when we find ourselves in those instances (Luke 12:12). Sure, we can have some basic points in mind. But to prepare beforehand what we're going to tell so-and-so in the congregation, and then watching for a chance opening to let them know what we've determined they should know— instead of allowing Jehovah to use use to reach them. It becomes all about the opportunity and our opinions and not about what's best for the brother or sister.

    Even when we are given an opportunity to be as cautious as serpents, innocent as doves, we have to become very conscious of our brother during the course of that conversation, wouldn't you agree? We can point to how the Bible counseled that if eating a meat we're totally fine with stumbles a brother, we set aside our self for their benefit and never go off with the attitude that he or she just needs to thicken their skin and then what you are doing won't bother them so much.

    I know I already said "finally..." a few paragraphs earlier, but in closing I just want to ask whether unity with our brothers and sisters of like faith who continue at the meetings while we cannot (either by circumstance or decision of spiritual conscience) can only be demonstrated by our being back at the meetings, "in the battlefield" as I believe you worded it.

    ~ Earthbound ~
     
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    Firebird II

    Firebird II Guest

    Hi Earthbound,
    Such good wording by you, love the feeling of compassion thru you, as well as these ones who operate this site: Wallflower, Utuna. these ones make you feel comfortable, they are strict tho, but lenient to a degree, but, as I have recently re-joined this site I have seen awful treatment towards others who have tried to make a point (but not by these two),,,who relate to where they are coming from. You see E/B, there are various stages, from ones who relate to us here:
    1) Those who are in their anger stage.
    2) Those who are in their acknowledgement stage.
    3) Those who question Bible/WT stage.
    4) Those who question personal beliefs.
    5) Those whose question prophecy, etc..

    If you have been keeping up on these stages here, have you seen a pattern develop? I mean, people can't even get their 2-Cents in without having a certain jackass moderator here berating you for no good reason. Sure, he had to cancel out ones with radical views, I can dig that, (and after this I am out of here, ((thought you were gonna do the same m'Lady)) but you have to recognize and deal with a Scripture here, as mentioned roundabout, to me awhile back from Bro T: "Do not cause contention,,,", Certainly! Good advice! Because, what good is to come from talking with a brother, a brother who owns a website, who seems to enjoy cancelling out anyone he chooses. Some here have chosen to call him arrogant. I prefer Jackass myself. I mean, just look as his avatar. Depicting himself clothed by the Lord. Such arrogance. Conceited yeah,,,

    Wallflower, Bro T (sorry bro, had to say my piece, now I know why you stay away from these discussions), Utuna, you have a good Heart, don't stop messaging me. Thinking, please don't follow along with this jerk-off,,,
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    May Jehovah be judge...
     
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    Earthbound

    Earthbound Guest

    Christian greetings, Firebird,

    I have to confess to having no personal knowledge of any of what you're describing since up until now I have only visited this board on occasion, and I'm not really qualified to even have an opinion about something about which I haven't the experience.

    However, I do know how I would personally feel if someone came into my home and started speaking to me with the terms you use in the excerpt above about, I presume, this board's homeowner.

    Throughout history, both Biblical and secular, hospitality warranted an appropriate appreciation and respect by those upon whom it was bestowed. Even during the days of the Roman Empire in which Christianity was born, it was considered an ultimate affront to accept the hospitality of someone and then do something to insult or bring reproach upon the one providing hospitality.

    Those of us who are parents have sometimes even found ourselves in a position where we have had to remind our children that as long as they are under our roof, they are to abide by our standards. Agreement with those standards is irrelevant. It has been so from the beginning of Humankind when Jehovah placed the first human family in the Garden, set down the guidelines and then expected His children to abide by them as long as they were "under His roof." Who are we to heap reproach and insults upon our Father as we enjoy the benefits of His Garden?

    Someone is paying the rent or mortgage on this "home," and the "deed" is in their name. That "homeowner" certainly has a predominant say in what goes on in his residence. And they have extended their hospitality to others by having a door through which others might come in and fellowship in his home. Those that accept the invitation then come under obligation to be gracious with their host, not heap scorn upon their host because they disagree with how he may do this or may not do that. Sure, they may want to approach their host privately and discuss their concern or grievance, away from other guests, but in the end it's the host's home and therefore, we respect the host's hospitality.

    Or, we decline the offer of hospitality and never come into his home, and thus never bring ourselves under the host's authority. My children are grown now, and living in their own homes. Still, they come to visit and while here, my sons would never dream of speaking to me or about me in a derogatory fashion because they disagree with my "house rules." Too, they fully understand that if they should ever find themselves having to move back home, the same rules of the old man are in play and they are required to abide by them, disagreement or no.

    If you disagree with the "house rules" in the host's home, why accept the hospitality? I would certainly hope it's not so there's an opportunity to come into his/her home and speak scornfully of them! What a betrayal to Christian hospitality!

    When our Teacher, Jesus, accepted the hospitality of someone and came into their home, we never see him exploiting the faults or personality differences of the host to the other guests. At least to my recollection. I could, of course be wrong. Are we somehow more qualified to dispute and invoke dissent than our Teacher surely was qualified? Did Jesus agree with some of the ways his own disciples came across during the time he spent with them in his ministry? According to the Biblical record, they could be downright obnoxious and there was even the frustrated "Ugh! How much longer do I need to put up with you" remarks from Jesus. Yet Jesus washed their feet, symbolic of the servanthood we are to have to one another.

    How willing are we to so-called "lower ourselves" to washing a brother's feet when that brother has a personality or mannerism that bothers us or we disagree with a view he has? Likewise, do we accept his hospitality and then act inhospitably toward him? We are betraying the love Jesus commanded his followers to have, if we do.

    After all, if an issue or topic or matter is of such import to us personally, all we really have to do is decline the offer of hospitality, right? And then we part in peace, not go forth denigrating that brother before others so as to make ourselves appear more righteous before others by making our brother seem less righteous. In that respect, we are doing well if we, like JoshuaStone7 wrote, say "Let Jehovah be judge," as He is far more qualified to know all the details, including those we personally are unaware of as well as the person's heart.

    ~ Earthbound ~
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Thank you brother for those rational words...

    Your presence here is greatly welcome and appreciated, welcome aboard.

    May Jehovah's spirit remain with you in all your endeavors, so that we may be ready when the Lord knocks on our doors.
     
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Yes Joshua,
    Jehovah is judge and not a judicial commitee.
    For all of us who have been judged as not worthy of life with our Lord and
    Savior Jesus I say - what are you thinking?
    I have been judged AND PUT OUT TO DRY.

    WHAT?

    JEHOVAH WILL JUDGE WHO IS RIGHTEOUS and who is not.

    If you defend the watchtower organization which I know you do not.

    where do we go from here?

    Joe
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Thank you for the message Joe...

    As you may know, my work is in chronology and prophecy. It's no surprise I believe the WTS has a fulfillment in prophecy and that they contain many of Gods people. The main reason being the core understandings such as the nature of God, which was the defining factor for the Jews being his people, of which there were no other people on the planet associated with the true God because of this one simple fact.

    Dan 11:32 "And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively."

    I can tell you with great confidence that as a group no one that believes in the trinity will know the true God. I also as well believe that JW's have had a hand in collecting some of Christs brothers that are representative of the Holy Place in the temple.

    While some have believed that the WTS represents the prophetic temple, I have been able to refine that understanding just a bit further and have identified the WTS as the courtyard around the temple, and not the temple itself. It is this courtyard that will be circled in the time of the end for the 42 months when the WTS comes down. The Holy Place are made up of the prophetic 12 tribes of Israel, the 122k. You can find an explanation in this video here: VIDEO

    Rev 11:2 "But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months."

    Courtyard=WTS
    Holy Place=Christs Brothers
    Most Holy=Heaven

    In order to enter the courtyard of the tabernacle in the wilderness one needed to enter the gate made up of fine white linen. This represents Christ Jesus, and these ones are purified of sin within the courtyard by the sacrifice. Only those who know the true nature of Christ and his Father can be cleansed in this manner, for they worship the true God, not a trinity originating from the Tower of Babel.

    So Joe, to your question of "where do we go from here". It is my belief we are now waiting for the courtyard to be circled, just like in 66CE, the first fulfillment of the 42 months (besides the Maccabees revolt). It all comes down to where we are in the stream of time. It just happens to be my understanding that these are the next scriptures we are waiting on to be fulfilled;

    Dan 8:11,12 "It exalted itself even against the Prince of the army, and from him the constant feature was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. And an army was given over, together with the constant feature,*because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success."

    Dan 11:30 "He will go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenant and act effectively; and he will go back and will give attention to those leaving the holy covenant."

    Rev 13:13 "And it performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind."

    Now, the next question is, when will this occur, when will the first trumpet/bowl begin? I believe the Jewish holidays yet to be fulfilled contain the "when". Although we can map out the chronology of the time of the end, the question of exactly when the events will occur is however another story.

    It is my belief that the Jewish holidays yet to be fulfilled only line up with the chronology very rarely, and these time tables started 2013 (which has come and gone), 2018 would be the next opportunity, and then 2021, then 2037. This information can be read HERE.

    Here is the next moment in time the Jewish holidays yet to be fulfilled match up with the chronology of Daniel;

    {2300 Starts} Watchtower News Reports: Sept 9th, 2018; Rosh Hashanah
    |
    {965 Days Pass}
    |
    {1260, 1290, 1335 Starts} Watchtower Goes Down: May 1st, 2021
    |
    {777 Days Pass}
    |
    {1742nd Day} Call to Rebuild Jerusalem: June 17th, 2023
    |
    {108 Days Pass}
    |
    {1850th Day} Anglo-America Collapses: Sept 29th-6th, 2023; Sukkot
    |

    {375 Days Pass}
    |
    {1260 Ends} Jesus Enthroned: Oct 12th, 2024; Yom Kippur
    |
    {30 Days Pass}
    |
    {1290 Ends} Disgusting Thing Placed: Nov 11th, 2024
    |
    {45 Days Pass}
    |
    {2300th, 1335th Day} New World: Dec 26th, 2024; Hanukkah
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Hey Firebird,
    I hope you haven’t driven onto that on-ramp to the Highway to Hell. Just pull over to the curb, put it in park, and turn off the engine. Take a deep breath. Let it out. Don’t let road rage take over. That’s what appears to be happening. Take a look at the situation. There’s that brick wall ahead, and a deep pit behind. You’re in between a rock and a hard place. Don’t let this opportunity slip away due to a bad decision. Jehovah has something fantastic ahead for you. Put faith in his promise and leave it in his hands.

    These situations are part of the game that Satan throws at us. And, Jehovah allows it to test our true heart condition. I know there are those who unknowingly cause us friction. Even if it were deliberate, we have to turn to Jehovah for directions. Sometimes he will make us wait before he provides a way out. Before you put it in gear again, just remember the words of this song. We are all in this together.

    Dream Theater - Along For The Ride

     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Hey Firebird,
    I forgot to include this.
    “Remember, when God has you between a rock and a hard place, He’s got something significant coming your way. Don’t give up. Hang in there. Keep on pushing through. God allows contradictions to come into the lives of His people in order to take them to a new spiritual level. He allows, and often creates, trick-bag scenarios in order to grant us a new spiritual experience that will give us a bigger view of Him than we previously had.

    No, these are not the most pleasant situations when you are in the middle of them. But one thing you can bank on: You are in for something big when God Himself puts you between a rock and a hard place. These situations are intentional, purposeful, and, when responded to appropriately through visible faith, very profitable.” (Between A Rock and a Hard Place - Tony Evans)

     
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Right on Tsaphah.

    Encoraging words from a older man to hang in there is a gift from our Father.

    Joshua it truly appears we are on the same page in this regard.

    I believe and know that chronology is important to Jehovah and that He actually reserves the right to change chronology for merciful reasons toward repentant men and women - He really does wish that all men should attain to repentance and allow for mercy and yet his words and the words of His Son show that there will only be a few who will do this. So with regards to chronology I am in a wait and see mode because things change according to Jehovah's mercy.

    Does that make sense?

    Have a blessed day brother.

    Joe
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Completely agreed brother;

    Dan 2:21 "He changes times and seasons, Removes kings and sets up kings, Gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those with discernment."

    Jehovah knew already from the beginning, the end. He saw us discussing here, now, and had the "word" written according to what could be discovered in our day. I for one know without computers there's no way I could find a scripture as quick as I am able to now.

    Ish 46:10 "From the beginning I foretell the outcome, And from long ago the things that have not yet been done."

    All peace brother....
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    Establishing and maintaining the forum requires time, effort and expense. I would like to see a respectful attitude being shown to the administrators of the forum, in recognition of this fact.

    The forum has been set up in order to assist brothers and sisters who have issues and are in need of encouragement. It is also a means of strengthening the faith of brothers and sisters.

    It is also the goal to have a peaceful atmosphere on the forum - it should be possible to have Biblical discussions in a civil manner.
     

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