With all do respect (of course), your premise again in this essay is based on Israel and Jew being genetic Jews in the NC these last 2000 years. Of course as I've mentioned I believe you miss what Paul said being a Jew is, and that is one who is a Jew in heart, not in flesh, but ultimately in your essay here I think your belief that only genetic Jews receive the anointing misunderstands what it means to be anointed. You said Satan has deceived Greeks who think they are, and I assure you, you have taken a wrong turn at Cornelius. Peters vision of the sheet, and the grafting in of the branches denotes all races of mankind coming into the covenant position with God.
Londoner, is it you your self that wrote this essay? You know, there are a lot of scriptures that show that God has anointed non-jews to become kings to rule together with Jesus over the earth. And that confirms that the 12 tribes mentioned in Revelation are not about litteral jews. And if they were they should be equivalent to the tribes in the litteral Israel in ancient times. Additionally the genealogic records are lost and jews can not know from which tribe they are for sure.
Hi Londoner: Then after dismissing the crowds, he went into the house. His disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.”37 In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man;38 the field is the world.+ As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one,+39 and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things,* and the reapers are angels. Matthew 13 This scripture makes it clear that the sower is Jesus and the field where he scatters "his" seed is "the world", taken from the Greek word Kosmos. Kosmos can be "the globe", the physical earth or it can mean "the system of things". Either way, it is not limited to "the nation of Israel" whether they find themselves in the area of Palestine or scattered all throughout Europe and Asia. If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing,4 among whom the god of this system of things*+ has blinded the minds of the unbelievers,+ so that the illumination* of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God,+ might not shine through.+5 For we are preaching, not about ourselves, but about Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your slaves for Jesus’ sake. 2 Cor. 4:4,5. So Satan is the god of everyone on the earth, jews and non-jews alike except the ones chosen from "the world" by Christ Jesus and his sowing. Jesus does not choose just from the "nation" of Israel, but he chooses from the Kosmos, "the system of things", which we know encompasses all mankind. The Kingdom will rule over all of mankind, not just the nation of Israel. Wouldn't it be wiser to take rulers who are Christlike from all the nations so that each nationality is represented in God's Government? I think that makes sense and the Bible does too.
Interestning, to whom was James letter written? To the litteral 12 tribes of Israel or to the spiritual Israel? James 1:1 James,+ a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the 12 tribes that are scattered about:Greetings! Does not Revelation 5: 9 make it clear that the anointed kings who are to rule over the earth for 1000 years selected from every diffrerent etnicity?: And they sing a new song,+ saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God+ out of every tribe and tongue* and people and nation,+10 and you made them to be a kingdom+ and priests to our God,+and they are to rule as kings+ over the earth.”
Yes brother, circumcision was prophetic of the circumcision of the heart. Just as non-Jews were circumcised into the old covenant, so the nations also come under the NC. Hence Peters vision of the sheet, and Cornelius coming into that covenant. This is what I was discussing with you in times past when we discussed Jerusalem, and the temple. Jew, Israel, Jerusalem, temple all become metaphors after Cornelius. The fulfillment of the "many" in Dan 9:27. But, this in no way means we can't see the fulfillment. The fulfillment's would be just as visible.
Hi Joshuastone7 I explained what being circumcised in the heart meant in my reply to you (no.29) in the "New Covenant - Solved!" thread. But please find it below: The whole book of Romans is talking to the Jews. Particularly in chapter 2, those who were still in Jerusalem and still advocating the Law and circumcision, and the Jews "of the nations" who were Greeks, etc". They had accepted Christ through the NC and thus the Law was written in their hearts, with spiritual circumcision. God said this would happen to the physical Jews when they accept the NC. Jere 31:33 - “For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.” You say Peter's vision of the sheet and the grafting of the branches "denotes all races of mankind coming into the covenant position with God". This is an assumption and an assertion again with no scriptural proof. The animals in the sheet were all unclean under the Law. Also, Jews that were living in Greece, Italy, etc, speaking the languages of their adopted countries and engaging in sinful practices according to the Law, had now been made clean from God's viewpoint, and can be taken into the NC after they accept Christ. Cornelius was such a Jew. Remember, Jere 31 and Heb 9 makes it clear that the NC is a replacement of the Law Covenant that the ancestors of the Israelites broke. The blood of Christ cleanses them of their sins against the LC. Only Jews had ancestors in the LC, and of course, only they have committed sins against the Law as they were the only ones in it. You have to be a Jew that was in the LC to be in the NC that replaces it. There is no Spiritual Israel/Judah/Jew. It is not in the bible. It is a con and falsehood from Christendom. All of the prophecies are directed at (true) and currently dormant physical Israel. All Non-Jewish Christians have been ignoring for centuries who the bible was primarily written for and thus have caused billions to be misled. None of the End Time prophecies will make sense, along with multiple and confusing "spiritual" interpretations until we recognise who the true Israelites are. Londoner
Hi Jan Yes, I wrote the essay all myself. You (and other Christians down the centuries) say that there are many scriptures that point to non-Jews being in the covenant and replacing the 12 tribes of Israel in Revelation. I have yet to see a scripture pointing to non-Jews being in a covenant with God. All the scriptures non-Jewish Christians use are all directed at Jews. This is masked over by substituting Israel/Jew with the unscriptural "Spiritual Israel/Jew". These are physical Jews. Their background in the Christian Greek Scriptures (CGS) is that their ancestors were baptised into Moses, were incorporated into the Law covenant, and practiced circumcision and observed Jewish festivals and conventions! God knows who the real Jews are. The males carry an irrefutable genetic DNA figure print: E1B1A. God will awaken these Jews to who they are, and collect them to where they have been scattered around the world and bring them back to Israel to worship Him there with a temple. Nearly all the Hebrew prophets, and Peter in Act 15:11, say the same thing. Londoner
Hi Jan The 12 tribes of Israel is literal, not spiritual as with all the Christian Greek Scriptures (CGS). Rev 5:9 is directed at the Jews as with all the CGS I have proven in the essays. The "people out of every tribe and tongue" are the worldly, uncircumcised descendants of the 10 tribe kingdom that have accepted Christ, been brought into the NC and been anointed with holy spirit. We know Rev is directed to the physical Jews because Rev 1: 5,6 says this about the King-Priests - and from Jesus Christ, "the Faithful Witness," "The firstborn from the dead," and "The Ruler of the kings of the earth." To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood- and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father-yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen. Remember, Heb 9:15 says that the blood of Christ wiped out the transgressions "under the former covenant". Only the Jews were in the former covenant, or the Law Covenant. Londoner
I completely disagree... You say the unclean animals in Peters vision of the sheet were physical Jews who were sinning in other countries, and at that moment they were made clean? And I'm making the assumptions? Mth 15:27 "She said: “Yes, Lord, but really the little dogs do eat of the crumbs falling from the table of their masters.” I'm sorry brother, but your the only one here who believes the Bible is only to physical Jews, everyone I know understands that the Israel of God excepted all races under the NC after Cornelius was baptized, because that was the end of the 70th week. You see; Dan 9:27 "And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week," The covenant was for the king Christ Jesus, and the many were the physical Jews, and that week ended when Cornelius was baptized. That week ran from Christs baptism, to Cornelius baptism, and at the half of the week the sacrifices at the temple were no longer valid. Again, your understanding of physical Jews today is irrelevant, there is no such thing. Are you going to be like Hitler and determine what makes a Jew???? Half Jew, three quarters, one fourth, on and on and on... Preposterous... How many languages did Paul speak? What was his citizenship's? Was not Paul a citizen of Rome, and spoke Greek? Where does that fit into your theory? He was a faithful Jew before becoming a Christian. They were made clean by Peters vision, just out of the blue, clean from their sin huh? All physical Jews not in Jerusalem, who were in other countries sinning were suddenly made clean, and this is your premise and fulfillment of prophecy? Brother, I am trying to help you see you have taken a wrong turn at Cornelius, and he was NOT a Jew. WikiPedia "Cornelius (Greek: Κορνήλιος) was a Roman centurion who is considered by Christians to be the first Gentile to convert to the faith, as related in Acts of the Apostles and, perhaps the Gospel according to John." Again, Cornelius was NOT a Jew, he was a Greek...... Israel broke Jehovah's laws from the moment they stepped out of Egypt... Wrong, the blood of Christ cleanses no one, unless they are repentant. You seem to think the Jews are cleansed simply because Jesus was sacrificed, and I'm here to tell you that is way off, a human must be completely repentant to even come under consideration of Christs blood to cleanse them. Would you like to rethink this statement above? Maybe you missed something in the Old Testament. Are you telling me only Jews were ever circumcised under Jehovah's covenant before Christ? No other individual of any other race was ever circumcised under Jehovah's covenant in the Old Testament? No such thing huh? Gal 4:26 "But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." Your one of those people who think Rom 11 is about all the Jews in the world converting to Christianity when Christ comes back, aren't you? I'm not ever going to waste the energy typing all the wholes in that... Could you have misled yourself? What if you have? You know, I've seen it many times, people move away from the Society, begin reading the Bible themselves, and without any structure begin interpreting, believing they have insight beyond anyone else they speak too, and they can't understand why others don't see it, and wont listen to them, when all your trying to do is help them. But what if Jehovah's Holy Spirit is trying to help you??? Of that we will wait and see... I do believe time will prove both of us either right, or wrong... As you know, we are just having a spirited conversation here, and none of this effects our opportunity to serve Jehovah's Kingdom. So with that said, we may disagree on this subject, but we remain brothers, and hopefully we will serve Jehovah shoulder to shoulder when that kingdom does finally come.
Hi Frank Conger My reply is in blue. Hi Londoner: Then after dismissing the crowds, he went into the house. His disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.”37 In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man;38 the field is the world.+ As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one,+39 and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things,* and the reapers are angels. Matthew 13 This scripture makes it clear that the sower is Jesus and the field where he scatters "his" seed is "the world", taken from the Greek word Kosmos. Kosmos can be "the globe", the physical earth or it can mean "the system of things". Either way, it is not limited to "the nation of Israel" whether they find themselves in the area of Palestine or scattered all throughout Europe and Asia. You have to take into context, who Jesus was speaking to. He was obviously speaking to the Jews. Matt 13: 17,18 - For I truly say to YOU, Many prophets and righteous men desired to see the things YOU are beholding and did not see them, and to hear the things YOU are hearing and did not hear them. 18 “YOU, then, listen to the illustration of the man that sowed. The Hebrew prophets had desired to see the Messiah in the flesh that his countrymen were beholding, but did not see him. Jesus does not contradict himself. He said explicitly that his disciples were only to target his lost fellow countrymen. Matt 10: 5, 6 and 15:24 - These twelve Jesus sent forth, giving them these orders: “Do not go off into the road of the nations, and do not enter into a Sa·mar′i·tan city; 6 but, instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. In answer he said: “I was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Jesus clearly said NOT to go off into the road of the NATIONS, that is, non-Jews. His disciples were to target his fellow countrymen who were scattered among the nations, "the world". If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing,4 among whom the god of this system of things*+ has blinded the minds of the unbelievers,+ so that the illumination* of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God,+ might not shine through.+5 For we are preaching, not about ourselves, but about Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your slaves for Jesus’ sake. 2 Cor. 4:4,5. So Satan is the god of everyone on the earth, jews and non-jews alike except the ones chosen from "the world" by Christ Jesus and his sowing. Jesus does not choose just from the "nation" of Israel, but he chooses from the Kosmos, "the system of things", which we know encompasses all mankind. The Kingdom will rule over all of mankind, not just the nation of Israel. Wouldn't it be wiser to take rulers who are Christlike from all the nations so that each nationality is represented in God's Government? I think that makes sense and the Bible does too. See above. Yes, that is the romantic ideal, but God made a promise to Abraham that the Jews would rule over the world and bless them. Gen 22: 17,18 - I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand that are on the seashore; and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies. 18 And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice.’” The "seed", of course was Jesus, and he would take possession of the gate of his enemies, who are on earth. Jesus would bless all nations of the earth, and we know he will not rule alone, but with 144,000 anointed fellow Jews, who also are the seed of Abraham. Paul confirmed this when writing to the Jews in 1 Cor 6: 1-3 - Does anyone of YOU that has a case against the other dare to go to court before unrighteous men, and not before the holy ones? 2 Or do YOU not know that the holy ones will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by YOU, are YOU unfit to try very trivial matters? 3 Do YOU not know that we shall judge angels? Why, then, not matters of this life? And yes, Paul was speaking unmistakably to Jewish Corinthians when he said this in I Cor 10:1-5 – Now I do not want YOU to be ignorant, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea 2 and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea; Only the Jews can claim that their "forefathers" passed through the Red Sea and got baptised into Moses. Londoner
I don't mind that you believe this Londoner. You will learn different in the Kingdom of God. I will not attempt to disuade you as you appear firm in your beliefs. Keep your faith and you will be just fine.
Mth 29:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
Hi Londoner and all, As Joshua pointed out in many of his threads of thought: Acts 10: 34. At this Peter opened his mouth and said: For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, 35. but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to Him. Hebrew's 8: 7. For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second; 8. For he does find fault with the people when He say's " Look! There are days coming, says Jehovah, and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; Galatians 6: 15. For neither is circumcision anything nor is uncircumsision, but a new creation is something. 16. And all of those who will walk orderly by this rule of conduct, upon them be peace and mercy, even upon the Israel of God. The Israel of God is now growing and becoming a nation made up of every nation tribe and tongue and tribe. This idea contained in scripture does not seem difficult to understand. Have a blessed day. Joe
Hi Joshuastone7 My reply is in blue. I completely disagree... You say the unclean animals in Peters vision of the sheet were physical Jews who were sinning in other countries, and at that moment they were made clean? And I'm making the assumptions? Mth 15:27 "She said: “Yes, Lord, but really the little dogs do eat of the crumbs falling from the table of their masters.” Who was Jesus referring to when he talked about crumbs falling from the table of their "masters"? Who were the masters of the Phoenicians? It was Israel. The nation of Israel was God's covenanted people which was why the Phoenician woman had to beg him to free her daughter from being harassed from the demons. I'm sorry brother, but your the only one here who believes the Bible is only to physical Jews, everyone I know understands that the Israel of God excepted all races under the NC after Cornelius was baptized, because that was the end of the 70th week. I realise what you are saying regarding the opinion of those on this forum. But this teaching about the NC being given to all nations after Cornelius' baptism is a falsehood brought from Christendom to incorporate all non-Jews into a covenant that was made with the Jews only. In regard to covenants, all scriptures are directed at physical Jews. You/Christendom have substituted Israel/Jews/Judah for "Spiritual Israel/Jew/Judah". This is not in the bible. Are you not suspicious that the incredibly corrupt Christendom also teaches that non-Jews are in the NC? You see; Dan 9:27 "And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week," The covenant was for the king Christ Jesus, and the many were the physical Jews, and that week ended when Cornelius was baptized. That week ran from Christs baptism, to Corneliusbaptism, and at the half of the week the sacrifices at the temple were no longer valid. This is another falsehood regarding Cornelius from Christendom. The three keys that Jesus said he would give to Peter were all related to peoples who were in a covenant with God. 1st Key: Nation of Israel. 2nd Key: Samaritans (half-Jews). 3rd key: Jewish exiles living among the nations but living a sinful life and abandoning the Law. Cornelius was a Jewish exile but was a righteous man and kept the Law. That was why the Jews from Jerusalem were astonished to see the holy spirit falling on a member of the "people of the nations". Again, your understanding of physical Jews today is irrelevant, there is no such thing. Are you going to be like Hitler and determine what makes a Jew???? Half Jew, three quarters, one fourth, on and on and on... Preposterous... How many languages did Paul speak? What was his citizenship's? Was not Paul a citizen of Rome, and spoke Greek? Where does that fit into your theory? He was a faithful Jew before becoming a Christian. I don't understand what you are saying here. You know that the Greek empire was one of the metals in the image in the Book of Daniel. The Jews were under bondage to Greece, and so many of them spoke the language. Surely you know this? This is why we have the Christian Greek Scriptures (CGS)! These Greek speaking Jews and other Jews who spoke different languages were the audience for the CGS. Which is why the books of the apostles spoke about circumcision, the Law, the festivals and their forefathers being baptised into Moses, etc. They were made clean by Peters vision, just out of the blue, clean from their sin huh? All physical Jews not in Jerusalem, who were in other countries sinning were suddenly made clean, and this is your premise and fulfillment of prophecy? Brother, I am trying to help you see you have taken a wrong turn at Cornelius, and he was NOT a Jew. You still don't get it. See above regarding Cornelius and the evidence I provided in the NC Solved essay. The physical Jews were made clean because they accepted Christ and his blood cleansed them from their sins against the Law covenant as God promised in Heb 9:15 - So that is why he is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that, because a death has occurred for [their] release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, the ones who have been called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance. WikiPedia "Cornelius (Greek: Κορνήλιος) was a Roman centurion who is considered by Christians to be the first Gentile to convert to the faith, as related in Acts of the Apostles and, perhaps the Gospel according to John." Again, Cornelius was NOT a Jew, he was a Greek...... Whether he was a Greek Jew or an Italian Jew, he was a Jew. The Jews were the first Christians, and the holy spirit was falling on the descendants of those who were in the former covenant - the third key. Israel broke Jehovah's laws from the moment they stepped out of Egypt... Wrong, the blood of Christ cleanses no one, unless they are repentant. You seem to think the Jews are cleansed simply because Jesus was sacrificed, and I'm here to tell you that is way off, a human must be completely repentant to even come under consideration of Christs blood to cleanse them. This is not what I said. I said the blood of Jesus cleanses the Jews from their sins against the LC after they accepted Jesus. That means repenting and becoming a Christian. Would you like to rethink this statement above? Maybe you missed something in the Old Testament. Are you telling me only Jews were ever circumcised under Jehovah's covenant before Christ? No other individual of any other race was ever circumcised under Jehovah's covenant in the Old Testament? No such thing huh? The bible says that the Law was given to the nation of Israel only. You can worship God by becoming a proselyte. Psal 147: 19,20 - He is telling his word to Jacob, His regulations and his judicial decisions to Israel. 20 He has not done that way to any other nation; And as for [his] judicial decisions, they have not known them.Praise Jah, YOU people! Gal 4:26 "But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." Who was Paul talking to? What nation was in the first covenant inaugurated at Mount Sinai? Who did God say the NC was with in Jere 31: 33? The Jewish Christians who get selected to become anointed by holy spirit become sons of Jerusalem Above. And yes, she is free from the curse of the Law. Your one of those people who think Rom 11 is about all the Jews in the world converting to Christianity when Christ comes back, aren't you? I'm not ever going to waste the energy typing all the wholes in that... Could you have misled yourself? What if you have? You know, I've seen it many times, people move away from the Society, begin reading the Bible themselves, and without any structure begin interpreting, believing they have insight beyond anyone else they speak too, and they can't understand why others don't see it, and wont listen to them, when all your trying to do is help them. But what if Jehovah's Holy Spirit is trying to help you??? Of that we will wait and see... I do believe time will prove both of us either right, or wrong... As you know, we are just having a spirited conversation here, and none of this effects our opportunity to serve Jehovah's Kingdom. So with that said, we may disagree on this subject, but we remain brothers, and hopefully we will serve Jehovah shoulder to shoulder when that kingdom does finally come. Amen brother! Thank you for remaining mild-tempered and refraining from insults. Londoner