Who Really Are The 144,000?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Londoner, Jan 1, 2017.

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Welcome aboard brother, you are very welcome! May Jehovah's Spirit guide you here, and you find encouragement from us, as we from you! :)
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    Hi there Acalia. Welcome to the forum. Nice to see you here. :)
     
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    Londoner

    Londoner Member

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    Hi Utuna :)

    You've misunderstood. I haven't uploaded the full 45 page essay anywhere on this website! LOL

    I have posted 2 parts of it that are stand-alones. 1. Who Really Is the 144,000 and 2. New Covenant - Solved! Both of these together are nowhere near 45 pages!

    That said, I understand all what you've said above. May God bless your search for truth.

    Londoner
     
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    Dark-Luos

    Dark-Luos New Member

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    Hey Frank, it's a PDF document. Open with Adobe Reader or any other PDF reader.
     
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    Londoner

    Londoner Member

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    Hi Acalia :)

    Good to have you here!

    Londoner
     
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    Londoner

    Londoner Member

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    Hi Cristo, Acalia and Joshuastone7 :)

    Thanks for your replies. I've already explained in detail from the scriptures that all of the Christian Greek Scriptures you quote were directed at the descendants of the ten tribe kingdom who were banished from God's sight before the two-tribe kingdom were routed by the Romans. I can't keep repeating myself. Your understanding is based on an erroneous belief that Cornelius wasn't Jewish. Here is the scriptures again that prove Cornelius was a son of Israel. Peter says this after Cornelius tells his story to him. Acts 10: 34-36 -


    At this Peter opened his mouth and said: “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial,35 but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.36 He sent out the word to the sons of Israel to declare to them the good news of peace through Jesus Christ: this One is Lord of all [others].

    Yes, Cornelius was a son of Israel, a descendant of Jews that were exiled among the nations.

    This is consistent with who God said was in the NC at Jere 31: 31,32 -

    “Look! There are days coming,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; 32 not one like the covenant that I concluded with their forefathers in the day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, ‘which covenant of mine they themselves broke, although I myself had husbandly ownership of them,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.”

    The NC is with the House of Israel and the House of Judah only. No other nation is mentioned. That means Cornelius would have to been from either the House of Israel or the House of Judah. This is true for all those who are taken into the NC.

    If you do not accept that physical Israel continues to be God's covenanted people only, and that God will one day revive the true descendants, collect them from all the nations they have been scattered to, and return them to the land of Israel and to their former glories as all the prophets say, then there's no point in discussing the End Time prophesies.

    Peace to you brothers. I'm impressed with the civil way you have treated me. :cool:

    Londoner
     
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    Acalia

    Acalia Guest

    Dear brother, respect is essential. In this way there is building up even if you disagree. I try to bring more points to your attention.
    ---
    Acts 10:14
    But Peter said: “Not at all, Lord, because I have never eaten anything defiled and unclean.”
    Acts 10:28
    He said to them: “You well know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or approach a man of another race, and yet God has shown me that I should call no man defiled or unclean.
    Acts 10:45
    And the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because the free gift of the holy spirit was being poured out also on people of the nations.
    ---
    Simply I read that Cornelius was of another race. I do not understand how can you argue otherwise (not to appeal to other biblical books)
    Greetings, Acalia
     
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    Cristo

    Cristo Member

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    Hi...

    It seems that the perspective you have regarding Cornelius comes down to that scripture you referenced above at Acts 10:34-36
    At this Peter opened his mouth and said: “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial,35 but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.36 He sent out the word to the sons of Israel to declare to them the good news of peace through Jesus Christ: this One is Lord of all [others].
    Here is my observation.

    The "them" that Peter is referring to is not the sons of Israel, but rather the nations. Here is the same scriptures but I added a more specific term to help you see what I am talking about.
    Acts 10:34-36
    At this Peter opened his mouth and said: “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial,35 but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.36 He sent out the word to the sons of Israel to declare to them[men in every nation] the good news of peace through Jesus Christ: this One is Lord of all [others].
    We can prove this is what he meant simply by looking at the last part of the sentence in verse 36, "this One is Lord of all".

    If Peter was referring only to the sons of Israel when he said "them", the last part of the sentence saying "all" would not coincide with the rest of the statement. That would not be "all" of man would it? Yet if we look at it from the perspective that Jesus is Lord over ALL men of ALL nations it harmonizes with the context of the text.

    Another thing is that just a few scriptures prior Peter even states (Ac 10:27-28) 27 And as he conversed with him he went in and found many people assembled, 28 and he said to them: “YOU well know how unlawful it is for a Jew to join himself to or approach a man of another race; and yet God has shown me I should call no man defiled or unclean.

    You state the first scripture is proof of Cornelius being a lost son of Israel, yet the scriptures clearly identify him as a man of another race. There is nothing erroneous about the belief that Cornelius wasn't an Israelite. Quite the contrary, I find no evidence otherwise.

    I applaud your focus on the scriptures as to the finer details, however it seems as though it may be clouding the whole picture you are taking in.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Very concise, and nicely presented Cristo...
     

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