Apologetics - Defending our Faith

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Tsaphah, Jul 18, 2016.

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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I don’t know how many of you are familiar with Catholic services. Why are catholics so blind? I had to do my duty last night to attend a rosary for a neighbor we have known for over 40 years. She died last week from Alzheimer's disease. The priest said the rosary a total of 50 times in groups of 10, followed by most everyone else repeating. That equals 100 times throughout the life history of our friend. Ohhhhhh, what agony! I wanted to standup and say: What about this scripture?

    And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.” ( Mt 6:7 NASB ) Aaaaarrrrgggg!!!!Of course we did not participate, even though we knew the routine.


    We really didn’t want to go, but our families are close and I live in a small community. Their kids attended elementary school through high school, with our kids. I had to choose between rosary or the funeral. And, I don’t know if you have ever attended an open casket funeral, it’s not nice. It’s go to the church, view the body, follow the procession to the cemetery, listen to more Hail Mary’s, then back to the church for a get-together celebration. No Thanks!

    The Catholic Church is a part of Babylon the Great. Most likely the head. Her, and the beast mislead mankind into thinking that mankind's government's can lead them to blessings and prosperity.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2016
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Well, what do you know? I make mistakes too!! :eek: :( I had to re-read that one again. Now, I have to recant my stupid reasoning. Thanks for pointing that one out to me SingleCell.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I think I should stick to something I have experience with.

    In his book, “Body Life”, Ray quotes and refers to Paul’s description of the body being likened to a building. The chief cornerstone being the basis of the foundation. He says, “It is only as the church rests upon this foundation of the faith, as taught by the apostles, that there is any certainty or strength. Today many are straying from the foundation, and as a result they have lost any note of authority or assurance. Merely human viewpoints or opinions do not change the foundation. Modern knowledge and the discoveries of science will never alter it. Our ultimate concern is what the apostles taught. That is the greatest revelation of reality we possess, “truth [as it] is in Jesus” (Eph 4:21)

    He then uses the example of the construction business. People in that business “know that a foundation is of the utmost importance. You do not take risks or shortcuts with a foundation. You lay it squarely, securely, and strongly, for the whole building is going to rest on that foundation and will derive its strength from the character of the foundation. The same is true of the church.”

    Recently, there was an article in the San Francisco Chronicle about a new 58 story “sky scraper”, named the Millennium Tower, built at 301 Mission St. It was built in 2009 on land that is known to be “old fill”. In other words, garbage, debris, and any other dirt or sand. It is not stable land. This is especially important because in is also in the area of the San Andreas fault. It is an earthquake prone area which will cause what is known as liquefaction. The vibration frequency causes the unstable earth to become liquid.

    In order to have a stable foundation, it is necessary to sink pilings into the under lying bed rock. In that area it was known to be at least 150 feet below the ground surface. So, what did the geologic engineer determine was adequate? He said it was not necessary to reach bed rock. 950 friction piles will do the trick. Read the results here.
    http://sf.curbed.com/2016/9/16/12945600/why-millennium-tower-sinking

    He should have listened to the advice of Jesus Christ, who nearly 2 thousand years ago, gave advice about building a foundation on unstable ground. (Mt 7:24-27; Luke 6:48-49) As it now stands, (no pun intended) it is leaning 2 degrees at the base, and has sunk 18 inches below grade. The two lower parking garage walls are filled with cracks.

     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    You're human!?!? I still don't believe it :)
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Well brother, I was just waiting for you to finish your thought. I was thinking maybe you were connecting the ten kings as heads. I don't judge, I just didn't have enough information to understand where you were going with it... ;)

    Anyway, you are one of the power houses here and I can only speak for myself that I need you...

    All love in Christ Jesus brother....

    That's why I didn't say anything, because I was trying to find all the ways "I" could have been wrong...lol
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I am re-examining my reading and correcting my line of thought about the beasts. I started writing and, now I can't remember where I stored it. I have three computers and many thumb drives. So, I'll post it later. In the meantime, here is a subject that may come up in your discussions. My youngest daughter called me and asked my opinion about the denial by Peter, and the cock-crowing.

    Here is the answer I will give her.

    Cock.
    The Greek word alektor (al-ek'-tore) = from aleko (to ward off). A cock, or male of any bird, a rooster.
    alektorophonia (al-ek-tor-of-o-nee'-ah) from alektwr - alektor + fwnh - phone = cock-crow, i.e. the third night-watch:--cockcrowing.

    “The male of the well-known domestic fowl Gallus domesticus. It is figured on the ancient Egyptian monuments. The cock is mentioned in the N.T. (Mat 26:34, 74, 75). Cock-crowing as a portion of time, is the third watch of the night (Mark 13:35).” (A Dictionary of the Bible by John D. Davis, 1917)

    Cock-Crowing: “In our Lord’s time the Jews had adopted the Greek and Roman division of the night into four watches, each consisting of three hours, the first beginning at six o’clock in the evening (Luke 12:38; Matt. 14:25; Mark 6:48). But the ancient division, known as the first and second cock-crowing, was still retained. The cock usually crows several times soon after midnight (this is the first crowing), and again at the dawn of day (and this is the second crowing). Mark mentions (14:30) the two cock-crowings. Matthew (26:34) alludes to that only which was emphatically the cock-crowing—viz., the second.” (Easton Bible Dictionary and Treasury-1894)

    The cock crow:
    “refers to the time of the morning in which that event occurs, a time marked not by a single blast from Chanticleer's bugle, but by many crowings of those feathered harbingers of the day. Mark mentioned the cock's crowing twice before the denial, but that is not a difficulty. Matthew often mentioned one where Mark mentioned two; and besides, the cock crow (in a place like Jerusalem was at that time) always began with one or two, then swelled into a mighty chorus of hundreds or even thousands of roosters uniting to produce that phenomenon called simply the cock crow. Efforts of quibblers to limit such an event to initiation by only one or two cocks and to engage a debate on whether it was one or two are ridiculous. Anyone who has ever heard a cock crow (and I don't mean one bird) in a populous place with an abundance of chickens knows exactly what was meant!”
    (Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament) - Burton Coffman

    We (my family) have experienced the late night and early morning calls of roosters while vacationing on the island of Moloka’i, Hawaii. They are protected there. There was a large wood club beside as sign that read: “Join the Rooster Haters club!”

    If this was to be the sound of a “Chanticleer's bugle” as mentioned, it would not have been a call to the temple at that late hour. Also the word “Chanticleer” is from c. 1300, and derives from Old French Chantecler “sing-loud”: name of the cock in medieval stories of Reynard the Fox; from chanter “to sing” + cler = “clear”.(Online Etymology) “said to him Jesus, Amen I say to you, that in this night before a rooster calls out, three times you shall totally reject me.” (Mt 26:34 NTGI=New Testament Greek Interlinear) If it would have been a bugle/trumpet, the Greek word would be salpigx (sal'-pinx), used only 11 times in the N.T. Ex: “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” (Mt 24:31 KJV)

    Hour.
    First found in Dan. 3:6; 4:19, 33; 5:5. It is the rendering of the Chaldee shddh, meaning a “moment”, a “look”. It is used in the New Testament frequently to denote some determinate season (Matt. 8:13; Luke 12:39) With the ancient Hebrews the divisions of the day were “morning, evening, and noon-day” (Ps 55:17, etc.) The Greeks, following the Babylonians, divided the day into twelve hours. The Jews during the Captivity, learned also from the Babylonians this method of dividing time. When Judea became subject to the Romans, the Jews adopted the Roman mode of reckoning time. The night was divided into four watches (Luke 12:38; Matt. 14:25; 13:35). Frequent allusion is also made to hours (Matt. 25:13; 26:40. etc.). An hour was a twelfth part of the day, reckoning from sunrise to sunset, and consequently it perpetually varied in length. (Easton Bible Dictionary and Treasury-1894)

    “Time, as a separate entity, has not yet been defined in language. Definitions will be found to be merely explanations of the sense in which we use the word in matters of practical life. No human being can tell how long a minute is; only that it is longer than a second and shorter than an hour. In some sense we can think of a longer or shorter period of time, but this is merely comparative. The difference between 50 and 75 steps a minute in marching is clear to us, but note that we introduce motion and space before we can get a conception of time as a succession of events, but time, in itself, remains elusive.” (Time and Its Measurement by James Arthur, 1909, Chap 1, Pg 13.)

    “This simple line of steps in dividing the day and night is taken principally from the Bible because everyone can easily look up the passages quoted and many more, while quotations from books not in general use would not be so clear. Further, the neglect of the Bible is such a common complaint in this country that if I induce a few to look into it a little some good may result, quite apart from the matter of religious belief.” (Time and Its Measurement by James Arthur, 1909, Chap 1, Pg 14.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    While scanning my computers and USB drives, I found this document which I wrote on January 16th, 2014. So, I have to assume that I posted it back then. Since that time, this site has changed and some of the articles could not be transferred. I had started to research the subject again and became quite confused with all the different beasts, colors, heads, and crowns. I even went back to two of the WTB&TS’s publications. That confused me even more, and I had to stop.

    Rather than rewrite everything, I will just post this one, with a few edits and words.
    _________________________________

    How many here have considered that the red dragon mentioned in Rev. 12:3 and the beast that comes out of the sea, Rev. 13:1, have 7 heads and 10 horns?

    And another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems;” (Rev. 12:3 NWT) Satan is not referred to as a beast here, but as a dragon. But, notice what Rev. 17:3 says, “And he [the angel] carried me away in the power of the spirits into a wilderness. And I caught sight of a woman sitting upon a scarlet colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns.” These scriptures refer to the same entity, they are not different. This is the beast that the harlot, Babylon the Great, sits on. (Rev. 17:4)

    Note: Red, in Greek is purrhos (poor-hros') = having the colour of fire, red from the root word, pur (poor) = fire.

    Whereas, the harlot sits on a scarlet colored beast, kokkinos (kok'-kee-nos) = crimson, scarlet coloured. A kernel, the grain or berry of the “ilex coccifera”; these berries are the clusters of the eggs of a female insect, the "kermes" (resembling the cochineal), and when collected and pulverised produces a red which was used in dyeing. (Pliny) It was a very expensive process that only the rich could afford.

    And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names.” (Rev. 13:1 NWT)

    What is the difference? The dragon has only 7 diadems (crowns). So, 3 of the 7 heads have 2 horns. And on the beast out of the sea, each horn has a crown. So, 3 of the 7 have 2 crowns. What and why is there a difference? We know that the dragon is Satan the Devil. (Rev. 12:9) The beast that comes out of the sea gets it’s power and authority from the dragon. (Rev. 13:2b) See also, Luke 4:5-7. This also identifies where Satan’s throne is; the earth. This is also where the other beast comes from. Are we confused yet??o_O

    This beast is similar to those seen by Daniel in his night vision (dream) as recorded by Daniel. “And four huge beasts were coming up out of the sea, each one being different from the others.” (Dan. 7:3 NWT) Notice, they come out of the sea. We need no interpretation as to what this represents because, an angel explains this to the apostle John. “Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.” (Rev. 17:15 NIV) If the sea, where these beasts come out of represent “peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.”, then what do the beasts represent? “And the beast had four heads, and there was
    given to it ruler-ship indeed.” (Dan. 7:6 NWT) Ruler-ship? “People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?” The beast represents all forms of mankind’s governments, from the “peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.”

    Babylon’s similarities are written of in Jer. 51:6-8, and Rev. 17:1-2, 4-5, and 18:3.

    Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and provide escape each one for his own soul. Do not be rendered inanimate through her error. For it is the time of vengeance belonging to Jehovah. There is treatment that he is paying back to her. Babylon has been a golden cup in the hand of Jehovah, she making all the earth drunk. From her wine the nations have drunk. That is why the nations keep acting crazed. Suddenly Babylon has fallen, so that she is broken. Howl over her, YOU people. Take balsam for her pain. Perhaps she may be healed.” (Jer. 51:6-8 NWT)

    And one of the seven angels that had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying: “Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.” (Rev. 17:1-2 NWT)

    And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and was adorned with gold and precious stone and pearls and had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things a and the unclean things of her fornication. And upon her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.” (Rev. 17:4-5 NWT)

    For because of the wine of the anger of her fornication all the nations have fallen victim, and the kings of the earth committed fornication with her, and the traveling merchants of the earth became rich due to the power of her shameless luxury.” (Rev. 18:3 NWT)
    The system started in Babylon, soon after the flood of Noah’s time, continues to reign over mankind. Noah’s great-grand son, Nimrod, started it all by building the city of Babylon. The name, in Hebrew and Aramaic means confusion. We may never know what the original name was. Time changes, but people don't.

    The system is referred to as Babylon the Great, or babulon ho megas, in Greek. (Rev. 14:8, 16:19, 17:5, 18:2, 18:10, 21.) This system is also referred to as the “great city”, megas polis, in Greek. (Rev. 16:19, 17:18, 18:10, 18:16, 18:18-19, 18:21) Alexander Hislop, in his book, “The Two Babylons”, says, “Why this exact similarity of language in regard to the two systems? The natural inference surely is, that this one stands to the other in the relation of type and antitype.” Another thought to be given to Babylon the Great as a grand system that includes more than just religious beliefs, is what Revelation says about the merchants. “... and the traveling merchants of the earth became rich due to the power of her shameless luxury.” (Rev. 18:3b NWT)

    Prior to this the woman is described. “And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” (Rev. 17:18 NWT) Do you really think that “the merchants of the earth are weeping and mourning over her, because there is no one to buy their full stock anymore, a full stock of gold and silver and precious stone and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet; and everything in scented wood and every sort of ivory object and every sort of object out of most precious wood and of copper and of iron and of marble; also cinnamon and Indian spice and incense and perfumed oil and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and horses and coaches and slaves and human souls. (Rev. 18:11-13 NWT)

    This “weeping and mourning" continues to the shipping magnates, and everyone who is depending on this system to keep them rich. They were deep into this system and totally dependent on it. It is the total system established by Satan the Devil. Not one part of it recognizes or gives credit to the true God, Jehovah. They don’t even recognize or acknowledge the new king, Jesus Christ. That is because they are all a part of this world. (Rev. 13:8) They have become dedicated to this system of money, wealth, and materialism, and “your traveling merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, for by your spiritistic practice all the nations were misled. Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.” (Rev. 18:23b-24 NWT)
    “? And they worshiped the dragon (Satan) ...( Rev 13:4 NASB )

    “Thus, it was no innocent thing to sprinkle a few grains of incense upon Caesar's altar. It was the same thing as worshiping the devil who was behind the entire operation. The fact of mankind's general acceptance of such worship was enforced, "not by the moral greatness of the beast, but by the awesome power of his might. The authority he wielded was that of Satan himself.”

    and there was given to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;” (Rev 13:5 NASB )
    “(Burton Coffman Commentaries)

    How many of you participated in the so-called election of the President of the United States? Or, for any other leader of the nation you live in? All I can say is very many participate in worldly governments because they have been lied to, misled, into thinking that mankind can solve all of their own problems. To them, God actually blesses this nation to bring about peace to the world of mankind. It is preached in the majority of the churches. Through Babylon the Great, the false religions, have essentially dismissed Jehovah God and His Son Jesus. To mankind, they don’t exist! They continually pray for His Kingdom, but they refuse to recognize it as a real government.

    I won’t have much more to say about this. It is too tiring, and worrisome to the soul. I would rather focus on what Jesus said we must do. Work to be more like him. I find that it is a hard task for me. As I have said before: We will not know what these prophesies mean until they are accomplished in Jehovah’s due time. I repeat the words of the apostle John, “Come lord Jesus!”
     

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Absolutely, it's as if in the first prophecy of Gen 3:15 not only was the sacred secret set up to deal with sin, but as well Satan's efforts were foreseen ahead of time as well.

    Hence why I have debated the first head of the 7 very well could have been Babel.

    Zech 5:10,11 "Where are they taking the eʹphah container?” He replied: “To the land of Shiʹnar to build her a house; and when it is prepared, she will be deposited there in her proper place.”


    Have you followed our discussions on the deathstroke and abyssing? I have argued the two events are not the same moment, and many have argued they are. Do you have a stance?
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    No, I havent, but I will look them up. Just from reading Revelation and the account of the beasts, I think you may be correct that the two events are not coincident.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Well by George you would be the first one I know who would recognize it. It would be nice to have another person who understands it.

    Here is a link to the last time recently the subject has come up, and it's with Cristo. Read from post #44 on: "The Stars of Heaven Fall"
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Hi Joshuastone,
    I read your posts. Thanks for the information to locate it. I will have to do some more study on this, as it is a deep subject. And, ...yes, I believe these are different occasions which do not occur at the same time. If that were true, there would be no need to repeat it. One thing that is important is that the wound/apparent death is not for the beast. It is for the death/fatal wound, of one of the heads. That would not cause the bentire beast to die. As we know, each head represents a different king/ruler which is a part of the beast like manmade governments. Even though these beasts are similar to those in Daniel, they are not the same beasts. This is where I believe people become confused.

    I am of the belief that the beasts of Daniel were portraying the time from Nebuchadnesser to the time of Jesus. That would be, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. I'll have to look at "The Star" that falls from heaven. This is the on who holds the key to the abyss. I need to look at this more carefully.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    I do very much appreciate Joshua's posts.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    And I you dear brother...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Today marks the anniversary of the publication “On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection”, 157 years ago, by Charles Darwin. Let us not forget, it still remains a theory. You may want to read this article to gain a better understanding of the main points. It is necessary for using these in our apologetics. http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Origin+of+Species

    I appreciate all of YOU brothers and sisters. I spend quite a bit of my time studying and researching the word of God, based on YOUR questions and statements. Sometimes it appears that I am challenging the information, but it is for reasoning and gaining a stronger basis for our belief in Jehovah and his Son, and for the Kingdom to come.

    Yesterday I came across information that reafirms the statement, “History Repeats Itself ”. A case in point: Wells Fargo caused a near depression in February, 1855, by releasing false information causing a run on the banks. This is from the memoirs of William Tecumseh Sherman. At that time, he was a banker in San Francisco. So, it's amazing what we can learn from reading about history.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Ask anyone who believes in the Trinity (3 gods in one) to explain this scripture. “The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:” (Rev. 3:14 NASB ) Who is “The Amen”? Answer = Rev. 1:1. The Greek word translated as “beginning” is arche (Ar-khay’), having the meanings:
    1. beginning, origin
    2. the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
    3. that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
    4. the extremity of a thing
    a. of the corners of a sail
    5. the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
    a. of angels and demons

    Uh, . . . first place?, as in “archeaggelos”= archangel? As in Michael?

    Explain this scripture: “I will give a place to sit with me on my throne to the one who overcomes, just as I have overcome and have sat down with my Father on his throne.” (Rev. 3:21 ISV) Is he setting on his lap? Or, with himself?

    How can Jesus be God Almighty, the Father God Almighty, and Son God, and Originator of God’s creation, and sit down with the Father (GOD) on HIS (GOD’s) throne if he is all three?

    Why was Jesus called “the Messiah”, anointed one? If he is God Almighty, why does he need to be anointed? And, by who?

    “Common sense is not so common.” - Voltaire (François-Marie Arouet 1694-1778)
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Sect (n.)
    mid-14c., “distinctive system of beliefs or observances; party or school within a religion,” from Old French secte, sete “sect, religious community,” or directly from Late Latin secta “religious group, sect in philosophy or religion,” from Latin secta “manner, mode, following, school of thought,” literally “a way, road, beaten path,” from fem. of sectus, variant past participle of sequi “follow,” from PIE root *sekw- (1) “to follow.” Confused in this sense with Latin secta, fem. past participle of secare “to cut” (from PIE root *sek- “to cut”). Meaning “separately organized religious body” is recorded from 1570s.

    All religions are sects. All political parties are sects. All Sororities and Fraternities are sects. All social orders are sects. To name a few: American Legion, Shriners, Order of Odd Fellows, Loyal Order of Moose, Elks, Kiwanis, Rotary International, Lions Clubs International, etc.

    The next time someone accuses you of being in a sect, turn the tables in them. :eek: :)
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Fables, Myths, and History: Is there a difference, or are they the same?

    The first thing we must establish is the meaning of each word. In looking at the meanings, what will we learn, and how is it to be applied to our understanding.

    fable (n.)
    c. 1300, “falsehood, fictitious narrative; a lie, pretense,” from Old French fable “story, fable, tale; drama, play, fiction; lie, falsehood” (12c.), from Latin fabula “story, story with a lesson, tale, narrative, account; the common talk, news,” literally “that which is told,” from fari “speak, tell,” from PIE root *bha- (2) “to speak, tell, say.” Restricted sense of “animal story” (early 14c.) comes from Aesop. In modern folklore terms, defined as “a short, comic tale making a moral point about human nature, usually through animal characters behaving in human ways” [“Oxford Dictionary of English Folklore”].

    There are more words connected to this word which add to a better understanding, such as, fabled, fib, fabulist, fabulous, confabulate, and curry favor. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=fable

    myth (n.)

    1830, from French Mythe (1818) and directly from Modern Latin mythus, from Greek mythos “speech, thought, story, myth, anything delivered by word of mouth,” of unknown origin.
    Myths are “stories about divine beings, generally arranged in a coherent system; they are revered as true and sacred; they are endorsed by rulers and priests; and closely linked to religion. Once this link is broken, and the actors in the story are not regarded as gods but as human heroes, giants or fairies, it is no longer a myth but a folktale. Where the central actor is divine but the story is trivial ... the result is religious legend, not myth.” [J. Simpson & S. Roud, “Dictionary of English Folklore,” Oxford, 2000, p.254]
    General sense of “untrue story, rumor” is from 1840.
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=myth

    history (n.)
    late 14c., “relation of incidents” (true or false), from Old French estoire, estorie “story; chronicle, history” (12c., Modern French histoire), from Latin historia “narrative of past events, account, tale, story,” from Greek historia “a learning or knowing by inquiry; an account of one’s inquiries, history, record, narrative,” from historein “inquire,” from histor “wise man, judge,” from PIE *wid-tor-, from root *weid- “to see.”

    Related to Greek idein “to see,” and to eidenai “to know.” In Middle English, not differentiated from story (n.1); sense of “narrative record of past events” probably first attested late 15c. Meaning “the recorded events of the past” is from late 15c. As a branch of knowledge, from late 15c.

    History is the interpretation of the significance that the past has for us. [Johan Huizinga, “The Task of the Cultural Historian”]

    History is more or less bunk [Henry Ford, “Chicago Tribune,” May 25, 1916]

    One difference between history and imaginative literature ... is that history neither anticipates nor satisfies our curiosity, whereas literature does. [Guy Davenport, “Wheel Ruts,” 1996]

    Meaning “a historical play or drama” is from 1590s. Sense of “systematic account (without reference to time) of a set of natural phenomena” (1560s) is now obsolete except in natural history. Meaning “an eventful career, a past worthy of note” (a woman with a history) is from 1852. To make history “be notably engaged in public events” is from 1862.
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=history

    Some may ask, “Why is it necessary to know this?” Many people think of the Bible as a book of “fables and myths”, and it is necessary for us to understand the difference to make a defense as Peter said; “And do not fear their intimidation, and do not be troubled, but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;” ( 1 Pe 3:14-15 NASB )

    The Bible is the only true history record with the answers to the questions: “Where did this all come from? “What does the future hold for mankind? “What is it all about?” Why are we here?” “Is GOD a dictator? “Does God have the right to tell us what to do?”

    These questions may seem ridiculous to you, but they are real questions that people have raised. A new book, which I won’t name, raises a few of these along with GOD’s right to remove Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden. The author asks; “What kind of God would forbid his creatures to know the difference between good and evil?” It is rather obvious to me that this person does not know the Bible, or God. And, he claims to be a “Jew”.

    “In many Genesis passages, the final editor or redactor has collated at least two narratives. Are we to envisage two trees, for instance, or just one? As the narrative stands, there is the Tree of Life and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The tree from which God does not want Adam and Eve to eat will give the man and the woman moral knowledge. It is less clear what the Tree of Life is. Only after they have eaten from the former tree (Genesis 3:6) does the text suggest that eating the fruit of the latter would have given immortality.
    [The author] speaks at one point of the serpent who “robs the man and the woman of their hope of eternal life” in the Genesis version. But this can't be right. For a start, the Adam and Eve myth in Genesis has its origins during the time when the Hebrews were in Babylonian exile. Even if you think that it was edited and written down much, much later, consider that the first shimmering of
    Jewish belief in life after death arose only in the Hebrew wisdom literature—for instance, in Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and the Song of Solomon—a hundred years or so before Christ. Before that (witness the many psalms to this effect) death is seen as the end in the Bible.
    The original story was not about Adam and Eve losing immortality. It could have been, however, even in its Sumerian origin, about the human capacity to kid ourselves that we are not going to die—that is something very different. In other words, this story's abiding appeal is bound up with the extreme theological ambiguities it explores.
    [The author] asks, at the beginning of his quest: “What kind of God would forbid his creatures to know the difference between good and evil?” Good question, and the one with which the Bible bravely kicks off. The answer must be, “a very sensible God,” if by God you mean an absolutist cosmic dictator. For. as the snake realized in the story, the minute you developed a moral sense, you would wonder why you need to be “told” what to do by a “God.” Far from worshiping God as the upholder of the moral order, as the Jews do—the very name for the first five books of the Bible is the Torah, or Law—you would begin to feel morally self-sufficient. You would be like, say, Euripides, whose tragedies question, again and again, the bullying decrees and tricks of the immortals who cause disaster and sorrow to befall us. You would come to sympathize with Antigone or Hecuba or Hippolytus, who try to fashion dignified moral responses to the pickle in which the immortals place them.

    Jewish tradition speaks of humans as creatures whose sense of good and evil is a torment and glory.” [The author] also claims that Genesis had more than one writer, not just Moses.

    (Quotations from a book review article by A.N. Wilson)

     
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    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Here is good advice from the Apostle Paul, fill in your name.

    O ________ , guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called ‘knowledge’ which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith.” (1 Tim 6:20-21)

    Today, the same “opposing arguments . . . falsely called ‘knowledge’”, is being used, trying to influence those who have faith in Jehovah and His Christ, Jesus. They usually try “bullying” tactics to embarrass you. They will also claim to be agnostic, which means “not knowing”. The other word which they avoid using, means the same thing, it’s ignoramus. And, to put it bluntly, they are ignorant. That state of mind is voluntarily chosen. They don’t wish to know the truth, and avoid it like a plague.

     
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    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Here’s one for those who believe in the Trinity. “ . . . but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.” ( 1 Pet 3:21b-22 NASB )

    They will want the “true Bible, King James Version”, to show the truth. “. . . but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.” (1 Pet 3:21b-22 KJV)

    If Jesus is God Almighty, how does he sit at His own “right hand”? I always thought that the angels were always subject to God Almighty! And as my wife asks; “Who was in charge while Jesus was dead in the tomb? Who or what prevented Satan from taking over?” ? ? ?

    After all, didn’t Satan tempt Jesus with this statement; “And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” (Lu 4:5-7 KJV)

    Hmmmmm, was Satan more powerful than God Almighty, the creator of all the heavens and earth? Who gave that power and control to Satan? Did not Satan say, “for that is delivered unto me”? The Greek word translated as “delivered” is paradidomi (par-ad-id’-o-mee) = to give into the hands (of another). Was Satan offering it back to Jesus (as God Almighty)?? As the lyrics of one of the songs by Styx says: “Sometimes it makes no sense, Sometimes it makes no sense at all!” (Man In The Wilderness)

     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
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    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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