Apologetics - Defending our Faith

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Tsaphah, Jul 18, 2016.

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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    The following is information from an article that I found while looking for the authors of the book of Acts. For me, it was evident that the so called “scholars” have their heads in the wrong place.
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    *Some experts (J. Dickson) think that the Epistle of James, which contains the most allusions to Jesus’ thoughts in the New Testament corpus (except for the Gospels), derives from Jesus’ brother *(cf. P. H. Davids) and should be recognized as a source for Jesus. All these documents antedate the Gospels. They probably took shape between 30 and 60 C.E.

    The first written gospel seems to be the Gospel of Mark, which was composed in the late sixties or early seventies. The Gospel of John evolved through numerous editions. The first one may conceivably antedate 70 C.E. Matthew was composed around 85. The “final” edition of John is dated about 95. The composition of Luke-Acts is usually dated around 80-90, though some experts now suggest perhaps between 90 and 100.

    Key question. A key question is now central in the study of all gospels and in Jesus Research. Scholars are sharply divided as they seek to answer this question: How much tradition and how much addition shape the Jesus traditions in the gospels? The minimalists claim that the Evangelists have given us only their own unreliable editing of Jesus traditions. The maximalists contend that the Evangelists have preserved accurately the accounts of Jesus’ birth, his life, and his words. Clearly, the intracanonical Gospels are edited accounts of what Jesus said and did, but editing is possible only because of some tradition to shape. Edition clarifies tradition. Does that mean that the Synoptics Matt.; Mark; Luke) present somewhat accurately Jesus’ fundamental message? The answer, as we shall see (chap. 8), is probably yes.

    * The Historical Jesus: An Essential Guide, By James H. Charlesworth
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    What is missing in these “educated guesses” of dates, given above? It is an important event that proves these dates to be wrong. Especially when the term “antedate” is used.
    Definition of antedate.
    1 a: to date as of a time prior to that of execution
    b : to assign to a date prior to that of actual occurrence

    It appears to me that these so called “scholars” are looking for ways to prove that the information, given in the Bible, is written by uninspired individuals. What is written can be altered or rewritten at any time, by anyone.

     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    In Exodus 3:13-14, Jehovah answers the question that Moses asked GOD, “. . . ‘what is His name?’ what shall I say to them?’” The answer given to Moses was, “God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” ( Ex 3:14 NKJV )

    Now, there are many so called Christians who use this quotation to back up their belief that Jesus is GOD, just because He answered a question as to His identity. “Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” (Mk 14:62 NKJV ) “Then He put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately the leprosy left him." ( Luke 5:12 NKJV ) I am the bread of life.” ( Joh 6:48 NKJV )

    There are many other places where the term “I am . . .” is used as an identifier of the person speaking.
    If we go back to Exodus 3:14 and read the original Hebrew spoken by GOD, we will see how it applies.

    Moses asked GOD how he should identify who He was. GOD said, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” ( Ex 3:14 NKJV )

    The Hebrew term used here by GOD was, “hayah 'aher hayah” = “I will be who ever I will be”. Another translation could be; I exist to prove I exist. This is not where He tells Moses his name. He is telling Moses to tell those who ask, that He is real, not like the nonexistent gods of the Egyptians and other peoples. In other words, “I will be whomever I will be.”

    How should we understand what is being said here? The reason to ask that question is because there are hundreds of other places where “I am”, “i am”, are used.
    Examples:
    1. “But I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go.” ( Ex 3:19 NKJV )

    2. “O my Lord, I am not eloquent, ( Ex 4:10 NKJV )

    3. “I will take you as My people, and I will be your God. Then you shall know that I am the Lord* your God who brings you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. ( Ex 6:7 NKJV ) *= Jehovah

    And the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord*, when I stretch out My hand on Egypt and bring out the children of Israel from among them.” ( Ex 7:5 ) *= Jehovah

    The term “I am” occurs 598 times in the Hebrew scriptures, in 37 books. It occurs 232 times in the Greek scriptures. It is a standard statement when used by the person speaking, and has nothing to do with a “name” for GOD. This term occurs 26 times as, “Here I am”, spoken by the person answering to another person asking for a response to being called.

    Examples:
    1. “Now it came to pass after these things that God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” ( Gen 22:1 NKJV )

    But Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father! And he said, “Here I am, my son.” ( Gen 22:7 NKJV )

    Then God spoke to Israel in the visions of the night, and said, “Jacob, Jacob!” And he said, “Here I am.” ( Gen 46:2 NKJV )

    There is no significance in the use of the term, I am! It is a part of speech indicating the person speaking.

    And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me. ( John 8:16 NKJV )

    This one is used by the Trinitarians. “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am .’” ( John 8:58 NASB ) The Greek word used here is, eime. Pronounced “a-me”.
    The translation could be, or should be, : . . . before Abraham was born, I existed .’”

    If anyone were to ask why; read this: “John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” ( John 1:15 NASB )

    "This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” ( John 1:30 NASB )

    The Greek word used here and translated as “existed” is the same word ( eime ). Why not translate this same word in John 8:58 as “existed”, instead of “I am”? It is because they ( Trinitarians ) want to use it to match Exodus 3:14, to prove that Jesus is GOD!

     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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    thinking

    thinking Member

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    Great info and explanation
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I would like to know how a person who believes that Christ is GOD, can explain this scripture.
    I have checked at least three experts? None of them can give an acceptable answer.:confused:

    Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For ‘He has put all things under His feet.’* But when He says ‘all things are put under Him,’ it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.” ( 1 Cor 15:24-28 NKJV ) *( Psa 8:6 )

     
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    thinking Member

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    YES!!!!!..that is my go to scripture to prove that Jesus is not the almighty God....it says it all doesn’t it..
    And the thing is..he doesn’t technically even have to do that because he now has immortality...yet it shows his love for his father to do that ...so glad you put that up....!
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Hi Thinking,
    I composed this quite a while ago, and couldn't remember if I posted it earlier. So, here it is.
    Thank you for posting these “lessons”. I was 30 years old, in college, after my military duties, before I had a professor that taught me how to learn. His advice was; “Check it out!” That is the only way to know if it is a lie. It also gives you the information to argue your point intelligently.

    “Anyone who stops learning is old, whether twenty or eighty. Anyone who keeps learning stays young. The greatest thing you can do is keep your mind young.”- Mark Twain

    “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle

     
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    thinking Member

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    I remember that post of yours...you know when I was about 14yrs old and starving for my freedom and release from the shackles of my poor parents...I read a quote ......”youth is wasted on the young”.......I couldn’t work it out but I never forgot it.....of course I totally get it now...hahah
    The worlds back the front isn’t it...I feel I’m starting to really learn and I’m two steps away from the grave...but your right and that professor was too....I like that quote from Aristotle
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I forgot the most important instruction.
    "He who answers a matter before he hears it, It is folly and shame to him." ( Proverbs 18:13 NKJV )

     
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